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I should possibly talk about a creed later. For now, I will mention EGW. A person who joins the SDA Church is asked to believe in the "gift of prophecy," as defined in the Bible, in the chapter on spiritual gifts. Most people associate that spiritual gift with Ellen White. However, the individual is not required, according to our official requirements, to believe that Ellen White had that spiritual gift. Today, there are SDAs who do not beleive that EGW had that gift and many of them remain members of the SDA Church. Some chose to leave the SDA Church.

April 12. 2024 I hope to be able later today to post additional material in response to issues that Gustave has raised. Until I am able to do that, I am locking this thread. I will remove any comments that are placed in this thread by the few people who can post in a locked thread. After I have placed additional material in this thread, I will allow for posts to be made in this thread. In further study of the responses made to me, I believe that I have permission to post them in this forum. So, I will do so, with some explanatory remarks. I am still uncertain as to whether or not I have permission to publish either his name, or position in the SDA denomination. At this time I will simply call him Dr. Paul, (not his real name) and state that he is an SDA Scholar.

This topic is now open. I am reserving my right to respond at a later time, in this space. Others may now post comments related to the above posts.

Adventist Today Magazine is available on the Internet, and may be accessed at: https://atoday.org/magazine-archives/

Spectrum Magazine: As an experiment, the current issue of Spectrum has been placed on the web, for viewing by the public at large. It may be accessed from the following link. I have been given permission to share this. https://media.spectrummagazine.org/app/uploads/2024/04/spectrum-52-1.pdf Some back issues of Spectrum may be accessed from the following link. Additional back issues will be added over a period of time. https://centerforadventistresearch.org/spectrum/ It should be noted that the above link will provide you with access to additional material about Adventism, well beyond this magazine, if you take the time to learn to use that website.

Advice From a Baptist: In the following article, a Baptist Pastor comments on SDA belief and practice. https://atoday.org/advice-for-my-adventist-friends/

10 Hopes For the Church Of Tomorrow is an article well worth reading. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/10-hopes-for-the-church-of-tomorrow/

NOTE: I am in contact with a SDA scholar who is willing to assist us.

Major Changes at Pacific Union College: An official video has been released at PUC, that has announced major changes to take place in student life. One change stated that all PUC students would be required to wear a common uniform. Another change announced that the restaurant chain Chick-Fil-A was planning to establish a restaurant on campus that would replace the chicken with Fri-chick, resulting in a name for the restaurant of Fri-Chick-Fil-A. That video has resulted in major questions from alumni. See: https://atoday.org/april-fools-day-video-causes-stir-among-pacific-union-college-students/

What deep things do you want to share about this promise?

(N) Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Which planet is closest to the Earth? https://www.livescience.com/space/planets/which-planet-is-closest-to-earth-hint-theres-more-than-1-right-answer

(N) Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

The so-called 28 Fundamental Beliefs were never intended to become a creed. Sadly, they are often used as a creed today. Those beliefs are stated in short paragraphs, general only one, on a page just before the chapter which explains the belief. The short statement is the official SDA statement. The expanded chapter which follows, is not In the original book, Chapter 17 deals with Spiritual Gifts. The Statement at the beginning mentions EGW and is therefore the official statement of SDA belief. It is on the basis of #8, in the set above of 13, which has been the standard for many years, and is still the one most often used, that I say that the official position of the SDA Church does not require a member to believe that EGW was a Biblical Prophet.

* Elderly man rear-ends an expensive car in front of him at a Stop Sign. * Joe, driver of the expensive car begins to berate the elderly driver and demand $10,000 for the damage. * Elderly man responds that he will telephone his son, John, who trains dolphins, who will take care of the situation. * Joe takes the cell phone and informs John that the wants an immediate $10,000. John responds that he understands and will be there in a few minutes. * John arrives and shortly pounds Joe into a quivering heap. * John then turns to his Father and says: "Dad, for the last time I do not train dolphins. I train Navy Seals.

An interesting perspective: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/hindus-adventists-and-a-1000-year-perspective/

Seeking ‘the right side of history,’ Speaker Mike Johnson risks his job to deliver aid to Ukraine WASHINGTON (AP) — Staring down a decision so consequential it could alter the course of history -- but also end his own career -- House Speaker Mike Johnson prayed for guidance. https://apnews.com/article/house-ukraine-aid-speaker-ouster-c525efc953d532242d6d441c55724992?

Thought for today: “When a hyena wants to eat its children, it first accuses them of smelling like goats” With thanks to Admiral Ncube in an article in Spectrum posted on the Internet.

Question: What does it mean when the husband states that he will make all of the decisions? Answer #1: Well in our marriage I would point out “no dear, I will decide what divorce lawyer I hire to dump you.” Answer #2: I did know a woman whose husband said that and she said OK. she then did nothing. He wanted dinner he decides what it is and cooks it. She badgered him with questions constantly even calling him at work to ask. “What time should I take a shower” then calling back to ask “what soap should I use” then calling back to ask if she should shampoo her hair then it was what towel, the blue one or the green one. The moment he hit the door she was asking “should I sweep the kitchen?” “what are you going to buy for dinner” “what soap for the dishwasher” “ when should I clean the toilet,” She spent most of the day compiling decisions for him to make. After a week of making all the decisions he crawled down from his idiocy and literally begged her to make most of the decisions he really didn’t want her calling him at work during a meeting to ask if their daughters hair should be braided or not or if their son should wear his sandals or closed shoes. I think the final straw was when she called his office during the lunch hour and left a message with the receptionist saying she started her period should she use a pad or a tampon. The receptionist put it up on the message board open and almost everyone in the office got a peek and teased him about it. Thanks to Quora and Angela Birch for the above question and answer. 6

Potlucks: According to the writer below, Potlucks may be an unrecognized answer to some of the issues faced by Adventism. https://atoday.org/three-reasons-potluck-could-save-the-adventist-church/

This forum intends to facilitate civil discussion. Civil discussion can be frank. This discussion meets the expected norms of discussion.

As finite creations of an infinite Creator we have been gifted more with the knowledge of what God is NOT. God is a mystery and pretty much all heresies about God flow downstream of people attempting to remove the mystery.

(N) Psalm 34:5 They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed.

AI Goes to War: The U. S. Marine Corps is developing a combat aircraft, the MQ58B, which once launched would be able to fly a 3,000-mile round trip, engage in combat operations while in flight, and return without any human operator control at any time. It would be totally under the control of AI after launch. If needed it could land, re-fuel, and return to combat operational flight. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/an-ai-powered-attack-drone-could-crush-china-there-s-just-one-problem/ar-BB1lw1Kc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=28cd7413177f4e26936140ce7692c75f&ei=6

[The following is a response that Dr. Paul has made to me in regard to some issues made by Gustave--Gregory Matthews.] Well, this is quite a lengthy post and I am not sure whether I should really address all points. For time’s sake, I will touch on some aspects. I would disagree with his estimation that there aren’t any SDAs that inadvertently hold modalistic views. A couple years ago, I interacted with a couple non-Trinitarian Adventists that argued that the Holy Spirit would be Jesus in another form, a third manifestation/personification of deity, a spiritual manifestation of Christ. Therefore, it was fine to call the Spirit a person, but that did not mean that he was an individual being apart from Christ, but the Spirit was Christ himself in a different form. I asked them whether this wouldn’t be a form of modalism, upon which they replied that modalism has to do with three persons that are actually one being (note: those non-Trinitarians equate “person" and “being”). Then I responded that it doesn’t have to be. They claim that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two persons but actually they are the same being. So, I asked if that isn’t a form of modalism too. They had to give in and replied that upon further thinking about it, I may be right. When one compares Christian views of the doctrine of the Trinity, one realizes that there is a whole spectrum of views. Neither Catholicism nor Protestantism are as unified as their respective creeds seem to suggest. Creeds are official declarations of faith, yet there are different levels of belief—the works of academically trained theologians (dogmatics, commentaries, systematic theologies, etc.), the beliefs held by lay members, the faith reflected in hymnology, liturgy, and worship, etc. I have seen statements about the Trinity Catholic catechisms that go far beyond the early Christian creeds that are foundational to Catholicism. It appears to me that if one argues that there is only one doctrine of the Trinity and the remainder of the spectrum doesn’t present that doctrine exalts that person that makes that judgment call to a norm. Or it exalts a certain creed as a norm. In my view, throughout Christian history various people have studied Scripture and endeavored to capture the rudimentary biblical witness to the triune God. There have been different expressions of the belief of three persons that are one God. Seventh-day Adventists did not start out as a creedal church. While they eventually issued a list of Fundamental Principles (later called Fundamental Beliefs), they referred to them as having a descriptive rather than prescriptive character (this is what Adventists generally hold in common vs. this is what everybody should believe). Initially, it was simply the editor of the main church periodical capturing what the members generally believed. Eventually, that list was printed in more official church publications, such as the yearbook, yet the statement (esp. in 1931) was still not voted because it was not intended to be a creed. Therefore, they intended to denied that statement an official vote. This changed somewhat in 1946 and 1980, when it was decided that the Fundamental Beliefs could be changed only by all delegates of the world field at a General Conference in session and when a revised statement was actually voted by those delegates. Yet, the preamble, at least in theory, still stresses the tentative nature of the document, thus trying to stay away from a creed. In practice, some people would like to employ it as a creed. However, since it is not a creed and since its statements are fairly rudimentary, there is still quite a bit of room for differing views on technicalities and details. Therefore, one has to be careful when one pastor, church member, or even administrator, makes statements. It isn’t always representative for the entire church. In fact, this is most likely the case for most churches. For example, one cannot simply assume that Hans Küng’s writings on papal infallibility are fully representative for the entire Catholic Church and yet his writings are a witness to the views of some in that church He [Gustave--GM] argues that Ellen White endorsed D. M. Canright’s Review and Herald articles in 1878. On what basis does he claim that Ellen White endorsed his articles? I have never seen an endorsement from her for those articles. Further, during those early decades, while Ellen White had no problem to confirm the insights of her fellow Adventist ministers on all kinds of other topics, yet in regards to their aggressive statements on the doctrine of God she remained silent. She neither affirmed the Trinity nor did she oppose it. Why? Or why not? Had she made any positive remarks she would have either become a theological trailblazer or, more likely, she would have been rejected as a false prophet because she would have promoted a belief that her fellow Adventists would have considered unbiblical. It was only after others began advocating aspects of the divinity of Christ, personality of the Holy Spirit, and doctrine of the Trinity that she confirmed those insights too. Yet, it may also well be that, in her early years, she herself had no clear position on the topic because it had not been clearly revealed to her, and that she therefore simply did not know

[The following are the responses that Dr. Paul gave to two Issues that Gustave had raised. The first is a response to the comments that Gustave had made in regard to whether or not Christ, who was God, could sin in his incarnate state--Gregory Matthews] Question 1: The Bible certainly teaches that God "cannot be tempted by evil" (James 1:13). But concerning the incarnate Christ, it says that "he was tempted every way that we are, but he did not sin” (Heb 4:16). In the gospels there are multiple examples for the temptations that assailed Him. The most obvious ones are the temptations by Satan in the wilderness. Interestingly, it appears that the strongest temptations tempted Him to employ His divine power for His own sake, which would have been a selfish act. The incarnate Christ was both God and man. It appears to me that the New Testament teaches that as a man, Christ did not utilize His divine power for His own sake but only to help others. In that sense, His actions were unselfish and other-centered, not selfish. He did not make it easier for Himself. Thus, His divinity was actually a liability because the temptations were stronger. To avoid being misunderstood, the New Testament is also clear that Jesus withstood those temptations through His close connection with the Father and by receiving divine power from Him. Thus, He never sinned. [The second is a response from Dr. Paul to the comments that Gustave had made in regard to God having a digestive system--Gregory Matthews.] Question 2: It is certainly true that the early Seventh-day Adventists had a more materialistic view of God (body and form, though invisible to human sight) than is reflected in classical Theism. That they claimed that God had a digestive system appears to me more an attribution than an actual belief held by them. That is, some modern-day scholars have concluded that from their materialistic descriptions of God based on passages that refer to Him as the Ancient of Days, His arm, sitting on a throne, His feet, etc. I doubt that they would have ventured out to claim that God had a digestive system since that would have been quite speculative and they generally shied away from speculation.

(N) 1 Samuel 2:30 Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the Lord saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

So, let us look at this case on a bit deeper level: * The company is a private business that reports to its owners, whom I believe are probably stockholders. * As such, the company has the right to take a position on any public issue of it's choice, as long as the owners (stockholders) do not object to that position. * It is the owners (Stockholders) who are in the position of authority to object to any such position taken by the company and to remove from leadership position any person who takes a position that the owners disagree with. * No person has the right to remain employed by the company who is in opposition to the direction that the company is taking. * If I object to the consumption of alcoholic I do not have the right to be employed by a company that produces such. I would not want to be employed by such. * I wonder why this employee wants to be employed by a company that supports something to which the employee strongly objects. NOTE: I am not suggesting that the employee has no legal rights in this case. What I am saying is that I believe that the company also has some rights.

Our Solar End: The following article reflects current thinking on the end, which does not seem much different to me than what has been said for some time. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-reveal-how-the-solar-system-may-end/ar-BB1lpik8?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=39bbf24a435c434ebd8c77a5b998e7ed&ei=11

Maud Sisley Boyd is a little-known, female Adventist pioneer. To learn of her life and history, see: https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/the-legacy-of-maud-sisley-boyd/

Spectrum: I have just received the current issue of Spectrum in the mail. It contains several articles of interest to Adventists today. Included in those is an article by Ronald Graybill on the visions that EGW had and an article by Warren Trenchard on a comparison of the writings of Richard Rice with those of John Peckham on the subject of the Trinity and on the Sabbath.

Please note: If you wish to comment on the Trinity, do it in that forum.

I look forward to your posts Pastor Matthews! One would never guess you are in your 80's by the depth and interesting nature of your posts. May God keep you on planet for years to come! [Thank you--Gregory Matthews.]

New York City Bridge: Did one almost fall as did the BAltimore bridge? See: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-shipping-container-loses-all-power-near-nyc-bridge-not-long-after-baltimore-key-bridge-collapse/ar-BB1leAGY?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=f0caf09fa1414baa9d1bf5cc3b7bec81&ei=8

At an earlier time, we had the rule that all discussions of the Trinity should be posted in the Trinity Topics forum. In more recent times, we relaxed that rule and I am one who posted here on the Trinity. I have decided to reinstate that rule. So, I have moved any Trinity topics posted here to the Trinity section. I will move in the future any posted here to that forum.

Park Forest, Illinois has named Alexandria Miller as Teacher of the Year. See: https://adventistreview.org/news/u-s-town-names-an-adventist-teacher-of-the-year/

Again: I have no problem with acknowledging that in the early days of Adventism, positions on the Trinity were held that were not orthodox. I would not argue against the idea that some elements of those non-orthodox positions may exist in some SDA members today. I think that both Gustave and I agree that the full nature of the Godhead is well beyond our human experience and understanding. But, some aspects of that have been revealed to us in Scripture and therefore are worthy of discussion. I hope that we can have some enlightenment from the person who will be working with us/me.

The expected path of the solar eclipse has changed. For the latest, path see: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-solar-eclipse-map-shows-change-in-places-where-moon-will-block-sun/ar-BB1kXiqh?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=795ae4b05a1e40129362a1010984edaa&ei=18

He was an amazing person, a type of politician that we need more of. The world is better because of him. He was a godly man, and a thinker who really loved God and God's world. Once when in Washington DC for Air Force Training, on a day off I got to sit in the senate gallery and he was one of the Senators that I recognized. I did not know this until hearing about his death on the news, but not only was he Al Gore's running mate on the democratic ticked, but despite him being a Democrat, John McCain seriously considered him for his running mate. When I heard of his death, I could not help but tell people "I hope that his death does not confuse people, to hear a good godly man and a politician", that they don't scratch their heads and say "Imagine that, two men in the same grave." Another smile I heard on the news was, since he was a Sabbath keeper, that his staff used to say "Joe Lieberman, working for you 24/6" Death is an enemy, but we can add smiles to our tears when someone has left such a legacy and resting in the blessed hope.

Turkiye, is the correct answer, in the spirit of the TV show, Jeopardy, to what question? Jeopardy answer: Spelled backwards: What is the English name for the nation formerly called Yekrut.

Who said it was a crime? LOL. You can defend him all you want. That's not a crime either.

Even hannity and Fox don't feel able to defend him anymore. Shooting and foot are two that come to mind concerning Bundy.

No charges necessary. He has condemned himself. But at least he spoke his mind.

OK, no assumptions on my part then. What is the 'take away' message we are meant to get from reading this article? You tell me.