Leaderboard

Sister Bertken was a devout Roman Catholic, born in 1457. The following article suggests that her life has something to contribute to us today. https://atoday.org/the-two-windows-of-sister-bertken/

The People of God: In the following article, Loren Seibold challenges us to think beyond what he calls the norms. https://atoday.org/gods-many-many-people/

Gustave: That is why I made my post telling all that it was a joke. I realized that some might not understand.

Surprised he lived this long.

Rachell, the various denominations are divided as to the nature of the bread that Christ used for the Last Supper. * I note that in one post you say: " I told you that "artos" is unleavened." and is a second post, you say: "Artos" is WITH leaven>" I assume that one is a typo. However, let us look at the actual definition of the Greek words. * Artos is the common bread of a family meal. It is considered by many scholars to always be leavened bread. Thiis word tells us that Christ celebrated the Passover with the common bread served at a family meal. * Azumos is a term that references unleavened bread. https://www.onthewing.org/user/BS_Last Supper - Unleavened Bread.pdf#:~:text=The Greek for what we read as "unleavened,and not on bread%2C e.g.%2C I Corinthians 5%3A8. Rachel, I do not know where you got your definitions of the Greek words. But, I will tell you: Never use either Strong or Young to define the meaning of a Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek Biblical word. They are used to tell us how such a word has been translated, which is quite different from telling us what that word means. For the Greek, your best source of the Greek is the so-called Arndt & Gingrich. Always use a lexicon.

Wow. I never thought about that. The way you expressed it is an eye opener. All of the Dispensationalists I have read on forums are elated that they will not have to pass through any tribulation.

Consider: As I followed up on a reference to a SDA leader, I noted that he had a nicely trimmed beard, cut to a short length. As I reflected on this, I realized that he was also bald. I wondered if there is any relationship between bald males who also like to demonstrate that they are able to grow facial hair?

Dr. Diehl did more to improve the lot of the sick and suffering in his 77 years than most people would do in several lifetimes. It's not always the length of life that matters. Quality is important!

Thanks for that Kevin! Based on your comments I re-read Life Sketches where those quotes came from and then re-read LOCRP-01. I've got some other files in a folder I put together some years ago I also need to read. I'll definitely respond again but not until I review what you've said against the materials I've collected.

Guinea Worm Disease is a tropical disease caused by drinking unfiltered water in Africa. In 1986 3,500.000 people were affected by it. In 2022, a total of 13 people in the entire world are known to have been affected by it. This is due to the work of organizations such as The Carter Center, and others. For more information see: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/index.html NOTE: Currently The Carter Center is working on River Blindness.

Yes, perhaps, but a problem is that Ellen G. White was a female leader in the SDA denomination. One can debate whether or not she was ordained. But, it is unlikely that any informed person would argue that she was neither female nor a leader in this denomination. Some might say that she never held an elected office. But, it is clear that she was given, the same credentials, over a period of several years, that we give SDA pastors. If we consider SDA male clergy to be SDA leaders we must consider EGW to be a SDA female leader.

Don't know much about parenting but I guess you are going to have a major problem with your daughter if you sneak into her room and remove her property. OTOH, it is your house. You can ask your daughter to take her bag with her and move out or get rid of it if she wants to stay. Or you could change your own mind and develop a closer relationship with your daughter. This is a matter of conscience for you but not for her. I doubt she is a satanist or will become one because of a pentagram. Matters of conscience are important ones, however. You need to realize the problem is not with the symbols but with your conscience. While I respect your disdain, even fear, of things related to the enemy of mankind it is you who are giving those things the power to interrupt your family's harmony. Intrinsically, they are nothing, as Paul said, "An idol is nothing in this world." They have no power, vibration, energy. They are nothing, unless you make them into something.

Leroy Leiske died in 2016, But he should not be forgotten as a SDA leader who helped make the SDA denomination what it is today. See: https://adventistreview.org/news/leiske-remembrance/

Historic Adventism: The following article is written by a person who is both an administrator and an academic. He speaks to an important issue related to our relationship today to our past history. https://atoday.org/why-historic-adventism-isnt-the-answer/

April 12. 2024 I hope to be able later today to post additional material in response to issues that Gustave has raised. Until I am able to do that, I am locking this thread. I will remove any comments that are placed in this thread by the few people who can post in a locked thread. After I have placed additional material in this thread, I will allow for posts to be made in this thread. In further study of the responses made to me, I believe that I have permission to post them in this forum. So, I will do so, with some explanatory remarks. I am still uncertain as to whether or not I have permission to publish either his name, or position in the SDA denomination. At this time I will simply call him Dr. Paul, (not his real name) and state that he is an SDA Scholar.

This topic is now open. I am reserving my right to respond at a later time, in this space. Others may now post comments related to the above posts.

Spectrum Magazine: As an experiment, the current issue of Spectrum has been placed on the web, for viewing by the public at large. It may be accessed from the following link. I have been given permission to share this. https://media.spectrummagazine.org/app/uploads/2024/04/spectrum-52-1.pdf Some back issues of Spectrum may be accessed from the following link. Additional back issues will be added over a period of time. https://centerforadventistresearch.org/spectrum/ It should be noted that the above link will provide you with access to additional material about Adventism, well beyond this magazine, if you take the time to learn to use that website.

Advice From a Baptist: In the following article, a Baptist Pastor comments on SDA belief and practice. https://atoday.org/advice-for-my-adventist-friends/

I am in my 80's and in reasonably good health. My brain is still active, even if it is somewhat diminished. I have reasonably good physical health. However, I am having problems with my vision. I receive regular eye injections, which were not on my list of things that I wanted do in life. I am aware that my published posts may contain typos that I have not seen. I work on it, but I have not resolved the issue. I have decided that I will not let that stop me from posting. God does not require perfection. If there is anything of value in my posts, God will use them despite my imperfections. Gregory Matthews

10 Hopes For the Church Of Tomorrow is an article well worth reading. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/10-hopes-for-the-church-of-tomorrow/

NOTE: I am in contact with a SDA scholar who is willing to assist us.

The above table informs us that in every Division of the SDA Church, for which we have numbers, females outnumber the number of males. What does this tell us in regard to leadership and the number of female SDA leaders? For the source of this table, see: https://spectrummagazine.org/the-current/ NOTE: You will need to page down past several other items to ge to the table of membership.

Lawrence, born Sidney Liebowitz in Brooklyn, was the son of Max, a cantor and house painter, and Helen. He started singing in the synagogue choir. After dropping out of Thomas Jefferson High School, he won a spot on Arthur Godfrey’s morning radio show and recorded what became a string of solo hits in his smooth baritone. He met Eydie (born Edith Gormezano, the daughter of Sephardic Jewish parents Nessim Hasdai Gormezano and Fortuna Gormezano, in the Bronx) when both were regular singers on “The Steve Allen Show” (later retitled “The Tonight Show”). They married in 1957. The pair won a Grammy Award in 1960 for their first complete duet album, “We Got Us.” https://www.jta.org/2024/03/11/obituaries/singer-steve-lawrence-son-of-a-cantor-and-half-of-steve-and-eydie-dies-at-88?

Medicine As Prophecy is a small, 64-page, book recently published on SDA health-care. The first link below will inform you of some interesting aspects reported in that book. https://atoday.org/book-review-medicine-as-prophecy/ This book may be purchased on Amazon, at: https://www.amazon.com/MedicineProphecyTheologyAdventistHealthcare/dp/B0CVNLG5HL/ref=sr_1_1crid=92VWCSHP7SBD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4jCobREtc7Hk4du6SPAoAwYT12muBNF0slXAAZLNktILfJqnrczusxRai9hJPMFk0YoVrQiViTq7Q7vHIZDCOaICCAnrKoEYOZdkqLt3vKW2QGJ4hMP54LmIXZzNaahBwwvzNXdyV4UKYfaF5Cd6EhcdAretvVGi1xAHkOt1q3BH0Wto_1A50uJc5G3LZakCR3BEEMGbLqrjtB8OIJWikTRLWOGDDAXARY2LfEVk.OE82OytVHqgRP2BsvCsrf4rgztBa5e7jm1seYVstw0&dib_tag=se&keywords=medicine+as+prophecy&qid=1709648939&sprefix=medecine+as+prophecy%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-1

In the beginning: In the following article, Cliff Goldstein comments on God's Creation. If you read that article, page down to read the comments. https://adventistreview.org/cliffs-edge/the-gospel/#comment-639830671

Sabbath potlucks: In consideration of the teachings of the Old Testament, should one bring "burnt offerings" to a Sabbath potluck?

On page 234. of the 2022 book on EGW and the Historians, it mentions EGW dreaming of talking to her dead husband.

Adventist Today is a magazine that reports on SDA issues and sometimes challenges the Church. If you would like to review past issues, currently all issues published 1993 through 2023 are available on the Internet, at: https://atoday.org/magazine-archives/

Recent headlines and news articles have often commented, sometimes falsely, on the recent statement of the Pope on homosexual couples. The truth of the matter is that the Pope did not in any way state that homosexual marriages was approved by God. Any such inference is false. Rather, the statement of the Pope should be understood as saying that God loves the people involved in such marriages and the Priest, in addition to affirming the love of God for them, is asking God to further lead them in Christian growth. Gustave, you are welcome to comment on my statement.

The One Project (TOP) is an independent, International, ministry that attempts to focus SDA life and ministry on Jesus Christ. Local meetings are called "Gatherings." Those who remember the ancient SDA Campmeeting, of 10-days might consider these Gatherings to be a revival of the former Campmeeting. A 2024 Gathering will be held in Orlando, Florida. The following URL informs as to the 14-speakers who will participate. Other links on that website will inform as to other aspects of TOP. NOTE: The Orlando Gathering will be the 36th Gathering held. https://www.the1project.org/orlando-2024-speakers

Spectrum magazine recommends 8-books for thoughtful reading by Adventists who are personally involved with the mission and ministry of the SDA Chruch. For those books, see: https://spectrummagazine.org/culture/eight-great-books-we-reviewed-in-2023/

History tells us an interesting thing about when Timothy received this letter from Paul. In Ephesus their were two ladies who were leading out in a women's superiority movement. And not merely female superiority, but UNEDUCATED female superiority. They saw educated women as inferior an any man. They said the uneducated women were superior to men and educated women in all ways, and discouraged marriage. They would go to any public gathering, religious and secular and just take over the meetings and force the men, especially the leaders to submit to their authority. Everything that Paul wrote here are issues that we find directly related to the points that this movement was pushing and trying to force upon the population of beginning with Ephesus. As we look at Acts, we find that when Paul and his team came and started a church, he would leave it in the hands of the best people to continue it's ministry and growth, whether it be man or often it was left in the care of the cities leading (educated) women. Did Paul not practice what he preached? Or are there other ways of understanding his quotes that superficially sound like he did not practice what he preached about women leaders. Now we do find Paul focusing on the difference in leadership between educated people, and uneducated who wanted to share their lack of education. Paul also wanted services to be orderly. Thus this movement in Ephesus which pushed for the superiority of uneducated women, and history tells us how they would disrupt meeting in many of the pagan temples and public gatherings, both which would have really rubbed Paul the wrong way.

Rachel has given us something to think about: * Yes the Greek word is used when talking about the common bread that the family might eat. * Yes, that same Greek word is used in the 14th chapter of Mark in the discussion of the so-called Last Supper. * However, it is also clear that Christ celebrated the Passover with his disciples: Luke 14: 12, 14, & 16. * Mark 14: 16 tells us that it was the disciples that prepared the Passover meal. Do you really thilnk that those disciples would violate the norm for Passover, when it was Passover that they were told to prepare for? noI do ot. The disciples were far from spiritually ready to violate such an important norm. * On the basis of the above, I am left with the thought that the Greek work had a secondary meaning that would allow it to be used for standard Passover bread that was not leavened. * I F that is not true, one would have to say that in the time of Christ faithful Jews used leavened bread to celebrate Passover. I am not willing to accept that as a valid position. NOTE: The Greek word was used 97 times in the New Testament.

Goodby: The following article is well worthy of thought. [I have removed the URL as it did not work--GM.]

I have appreciated the work Little Light Studios does for many years. I have not seen everything they produce, but I believe I have been blessed by the majority of what I have seen. I was a follower of them on a social media outlet. Earlier this year they came out with, what I believe is a very misleading video about The Chosen. I wrote a post here evaluating the video piece by piece. For a while, their anti-Chosen video was popular on social media and I would post a link to my commentary here (Club Adventist) in the comments area of the link to their video whenever I saw it posted. It turns out, I have been removed from the followers of their social media page. That is a first for me I think. One of their administrators must have went into their list of followers, did a search for my name, and then removed me from their followers. I guess I got someone's attention. I take no issue with doctrinal disagreement. We are all different. We have different histories, families and many of us are even from different cultures. We simply are not going to see everything the same way. What most concerns me isn't doctrinal differences but rigidness. When I see a lack of humility which results in rigidness, that is what concerns me far more than doctrinal differences. Most of the videos I have seen produced by Little Light Studios are a total blessing. I think it just goes to show that none of us are not without errors. I do a lot of ministry work but, there are probably things I have done in ministry that were in error. It hurts, but when someone points out those errors to me, I hope with a little time I can be grateful to them for it.

Michael Czechowski is an often little known, but important figure in SDA history. For a brief telling of his story, see: https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/michael-czechowski/

📷 Jimmy Carter rides again Photo from video: @erikka2ks08/Reuters Former President Jimmy Carter, who turns 99 on Sunday, and former First Lady Rosalynn Carter, 96, took a ride through the Plains (Ga.) Peanut Festival this weekend, as spotted in the social media image above. Looking ahead to birthday festivities, the Carter Center said: "We're betting peanut butter ice cream is on the menu for lunch!" Why it matters: Carter, the longest-living president ever, entered hospice care on Feb. 18 — just over seven months ago.

I didn't blow it off initially. What I stated here was not to worry about it because Bluehost is hosting the site. In the past, when it has gotten attacked, they have shut it down until they got it fixed. What I did yesterday was notify Bluehost and turn the matter over to them. I do pay extra for Bluehost to protect the site and thus far they have done a fine job. Today they notified me the site is clean and was not infected. The issue was with Norton. Norton has been notified and should correct the error on their side. Sometimes even the good guys get things wrong. That has happened where I work too. Our firewall blocks me from accessing sites that are perfectly safe. I have to call the IT support and have them adjust the firewall so those sites are accessible. I think Adventist sites are under even more attack for reasons I have mentioned. We struggle not against flesh and blood.

It's important to emphasize that the Father is a spiritual being, not comprised of flesh and blood. Jesus plainly said "A spirit hath not flesh and bones" (Lk 24:39). God is a spirit. Not having flesh and bones does not preclude the Father from having a human like form. Revelation 5:1,7 mention the right hand of him that sitteth upon the throne. The Ancient of Days has a hair and head (Dan. 7:9). None of these human like features describing the Father detract from his majesty or deity. Since the Scripture says man was in the image of God, it would be expected that there would be similarities. An image is something that looks like what it represents. It is not of the same substance. That's exactly the case when comparing man with God. The appearance is the same or similar. The substance is not.

Hanseng: So, you are telling us that God has sexual organs, as well as a digestive tract?

In this forum, we allow considerable freedom of civil discussion. That includes much with which we who operate it disagree with. However, we have always had limits. Some of you have experienced that in private conversations. Some have voluntarily stopped posting here because they did not want to comply with our limits. Others have had their ability to post here removed. With the exception of those who have attempted to post porn, and commercialize their posts, those have been extremely few. Fulcrum 7 exists. People read its posts, as I do at times. I do not want to criticize either it, or the people who post there. Its purpose appears to differ in some manner with the purpose of this forum. If we were to allow considerable duplication of its posts in this forum, we would have to allow significant criticism of them. I do not want that type of discussion to happen in this forum. My position is that we should let Fulcrum 7 be what it is and we will be what we are. I am aware that some of our members also are active on some levels in Fulcrum 7. I am fine with that. They have expressed their opinions in post here in this forum that abide by our standards. Yes, I cite both Adventist Today and Spectrum. But, you should be aware that I only reference a small subset of what is posted on those websites. I also cite from the Review and a number of standard SDA publications. But, my citations consist of a small part of what they publish. The bottom line is: Fulcrum 7, is doing ministry as it understands it to be ministry. Our ministry in this forum is seen differently. We welcome those who wish to participate in this ministry as we understand it. Those who have some differences in their understanding of ministry are welcome to contribute to the ministry of Fulcrum 7.

Unfortunately, I do not believe we will be able to have an open discussion on this topic. Prior links to other websites regarding the actions of the Potomac conference have been deleted and apparently only acceptable politically correct websites (ie, those supporting the progressive agenda in the church) will be referred to. Spectrum, as usual, is engaged in another character assassination of someone who does not toe the progressive line. They are doing it to Bohr and have done it to others. This quote from the Spectrum article was concerning: The most recent example is in the Gaithersburg (Maryland) Hispanic church in the Potomac Conference, where Bohr joined church members in defying not only the conference and the pastor, but the standard procedures for inviting speakers into churches. The statement above reminded me of something I saw in a Greek orthodox church one time. The priest told the congregation that the "fathers" had decided and it was their duty to obey. The members of the church in question wanted to hear Stephen Bohr, however, the conference seems to think that they should determine who the members have speak in their church. Never mind that the Potomac conference says nothing to the pride festivities in other conference churches. Never mind that some of these churches were funded by the sacrifice of the members. (This is what happens when you let the conference hold the title to the church that the local members have struggled and sacrificed for to bring about.) Stephen Bohr is a properly credentialed SDA pastor with "no demerits" on his record. There was no valid reason for this kerfluffle to be happening. The Potomac conference is doing to Bohr what the Florida conference did to Doug Batchelor. Bottom line: Stephen Bohr does not support the ordination of women. The Potomac conference is in full on rebellion against the greater church over this matter. So they will cancel him in the Potomac conference.

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Gently holding a baby hummingbird between her hands, Catia Lattouf says, “Hello, cute little guy. Are you very hungry?” It’s the newest patient at her apartment in a toney section of Mexico City where she has nursed hundreds of the tiny birds back to health over the past decade. https://apnews.com/article/mexico-hummingbirds-clinic-3f8247ca7957416aa97ccbb7b2f1aca8?

The text does not say that they will not adhere for even a short time; the text simply says that it will not last but end in total chaos. The number "!0" can also represent a roundness for an idea. While Adventist tradition likes to stop at 4 parts of the image, and makes the end the pope, the pope and the pope; both Windandi Perie (spelling?) and Stephen Haskell has 7 parts. I find that their 7 parts fits with the 7 heads of Revelation 13 as presented by George McCredy Price and the 1976 Southern New England Campmeeting "Last Day Events" presentations by J. W. Wood. These 7 parts are: Babylon Medio-Persia Greece Rome The Holy Roman Empire/Papal Supremacy (The feet of iron and clay. In the Bible clay represents what God molds; but here instead of it being molded by God, the clay is being molded by the iron, the state. Thus this represents a church-state) The toes of iron and clay: A time of division, independent countries. some offering more freedom others offering more control. In Revelation 13 the deadly wound. The head with the 10 horns, and the crowns are on the horns. Then an attempt for the toes to join together; the deadly wound being healed. Different from the others since it is not brought about by politics and/or warfare, but the nations uniting in economic cooperation. This 7th head shares the 10 horns with the 6th head. This will end in total chaos, a time of trouble, earth about to become unable to support life, but the stone cut out without man's hand will come to save us.

A great organization, being run by a true Patriotic President, who is a wonderful example of what a Christian looks like!!

The general understanding of the EGW statements as to intelligent life on other planets is: * That they pertain to planets outside of our solar system. * That those inhabitants could have sinned but did not. * Those inhabitants are aware to some degree as to what happened on Earth after sin began to rule. * From the perspective of that knowledge. those inhabitants will never sin and reject God's leadership. I point out that Gustave speculates as to the consequences of what might result if those inhabitants were to chose to sin. His perspective includes that idea that if they sinned God would not intervene to prevent some of the results that he suggests. Can I suggest a Biblical verse for every thing that I have stater her? Of course not. What I say may be just a speculative as what Gustave has said.

Nuggets take home 1st NBA title in rugged 94-89 win over Heat DENVER (AP) — Confetti flying in Denver. The Nuggets sharing hugs while passing around the NBA championship trophy. https://apnews.com/article/nuggets-heat-nba-finals-jokic-99c0f25e6e468a97f8c86330f988933d? Congrats to the Denver Nuggets and there fans 👍👍👍👍👍

Gustave said: God is fundamentally a God of truth, wherever that truth may take us. We fundamentally deny God when we engage in dishonesty. As we are human, we do not fully understand truth and are subject to error. But, it is our responsibility to seek the truth and to represent God as truthfully as is humanly possible for us to do so.

How should I respond: The response that we make must be grounded in two different aspects of this issue. On the one hand we must understand what Science says about this issue. We do not represent our Lord well when we demonstrate ignorance about basic aspect so this issue. Fundamental to this is the fact that our sexual preference is not an individual choice. Neither you or I chose our sexual preference. In addition we must understand the common terms (words) that are common to discussions of this issue. We fail to communicate when we us demonstrate our ignorance. We also must reflect the love of our Lord and understand both the Biblical teachings and how those teachings are understood by this community. One of the best SDA references devoted to how SDAs should respond to this community is: Guiding Families of LGBT+ Loved Ones, For Adventist Families, Ministry Leaders and All Who Care, Adventist Edition. NOTE: It is a special edition of a work by Bill Hanson of Lead Them Home. The above was distributed by the North American Division in 2018, under tightly controlled circumstances and i do not know if it is still available. contact the NAD to see if it is still available.