Moderators lazarus Posted October 24, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 24, 2008 You say, "This country is about fighting for freedom" but yet, you are willing to pronounce the death sentence on millions of babies, because you believe in voting Pro-Choice (really Pro-Death)...you are not even willing to give those babies the freedom you enjoy. The "freedom" you speak of, is the selfish type of freedom, freedom to do what you want at the expense of someone elses life...freedom to kill innocent children who never asked to come into this world in the first place, children who would find loving, kind, adoptive homes, if they only had the chance. I wish you could ask our forefathers if the kind of freedom they rebelled for is in any way, shape or form, like the kind of freedom you want. I find it weird that people who speak passionately about the life of the unborn child are often silent when it comes to the lives of children who are already born who die every day in the cause of "freedom". Here's an example: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...mbs-438994.html Nine civilians, including four children, were killed in Afghanistan when US planes dropped two 2,000lb bombs on their mud home. Their deaths came after at least eight civilians were killed by US Marines a day earlier. Is it because these children are less valuable, not American or that its simply does not serve the current political agenda? Don't you realize that God will hold accountable everyone that takes the life of an innocent child? Single woman, politician, marine or terrorist. God will not take into account whether Dem or GOP. Its sickening when I talk to parents who have $60,000 medical bills for their child who was premature yet we can spend millions on one bomb. It is so ridiculous for Christians to jump up and down about abortion but yet be silent on other issues that affect children simply because it does fit the party political platform. God's values are not limited to the GOP party platform. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Quote: And we forget what being a "Republican" really means. This is something that we do need to realize especially during this election time. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Oh, Redwood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You have to understand that pulling a club out will only create more fear. Consider what happened when the Jesus saved a woman from stoning. He said "Go, and sin no more". It was the sense of forgiveness that helped her to move on, and not the sense of condemnation. But we need both! Yes, we should lead the women who have gone through this wrenching experience of an abortion to Jesus and help them find forgiveness and peace...but if there was no law...there would be no sin. Jesus said, "Go and sin no more." He didn't say, "Do away with the law that condemns adultery, and there will be less adultery." Neither should we say, "Do away with "Thou Shalt Not Kill (notice, it didn't say it is OK to kill babies, just don't kill adults)" and abortions will decrease and/or somehow be less of a sin. Yes, we need more education...but education doesn't take the place of the law....and the law doesn't take the place of education...we NEED both... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Originally Posted By: Tammy You say, "This country is about fighting for freedom" but yet, you are willing to pronounce the death sentence on millions of babies, because you believe in voting Pro-Choice (really Pro-Death)...you are not even willing to give those babies the freedom you enjoy. The "freedom" you speak of, is the selfish type of freedom, freedom to do what you want at the expense of someone elses life...freedom to kill innocent children who never asked to come into this world in the first place, children who would find loving, kind, adoptive homes, if they only had the chance. I wish you could ask our forefathers if the kind of freedom they rebelled for is in any way, shape or form, like the kind of freedom you want. I find it weird that people who speak passionately about the life of the unborn child are often silent when it comes to the lives of children who are already born who die every day in the cause of "freedom". ... Is it because these children are less valuable, not American or that its simply does not serve the current political agenda? Don't you realize that God will hold accountable everyone that takes the life of an innocent child? Single woman, politician, marine or terrorist. God will not take into account whether Dem or GOP. Its sickening when I talk to parents who have $60,000 medical bills for their child who was premature yet we can spend millions on one bomb. It is so ridiculous for Christians to jump up and down about abortion but yet be silent on other issues that affect children simply because it does fit the party political platform. God's values are not limited to the GOP party platform. I'm assuming you are applying this to me, as you quoted me... We are not talking about older children...we are talking about babies...so why would you imply that I am "silent when it comes to the lives of children who are already born"? I know of no law here in the US that permits children to be killed after they are born, do you? If I did...believe me! I would be just as passionate about that. Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Same child "different location" -- the State considers one "location" to be murder and the other location "valid for killing the child". If the State struggles with the moral clarity to understand that location does not matter -- you would at least think that Christians would have the moral clarity to know about it. The moral issues were reviewed here - as well as the Religious liberty argument just-plain politics vs moral values. http://www.adventistforum.com/forum/ubbt...html#Post195624 in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Very true, Bob... This text couldn't be more applicable ~ Quote: Isa 42:19 Who is as blind as My own people, My servant? Who is as deaf as My messenger? Who is as blind as My chosen people, the servant of the LORD? Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 25, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 25, 2008 Same child "different location" -- the State considers one "location" to be murder and the other location "valid for killing the child". Thats an excellent point. There are those who do not have not as much concern for the death of a child in locations such as Palestine, Iraq. How many Iraqi children have been killed in the war in Iraq? We do not know because we do not care. Why don't we care? location , location, location. I care as much about "born" children as I do unborn whenever in the world they happen to be. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Lazarus...this thread is not about born children...this thread is discussing unborn children...so why do you keep trying to imply because we are not talking about born children that we don't care about born children???? That is like listening to a conversation where someone says, "I love apples" and you imply because they didn't mention bananas, that they don't love bananas. That is not fair....and you come to very wrong conclusions when you do that. Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 25, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 25, 2008 Its really about the consistency of an argument. If you have genuine concern for unborn children it should also translate to concern for children who are already born. In my experience many of those who are concerned about unborn children do not seem to express as much outrage about children who die needlessly in Iraq or Afghanistan etc. We will rage about abortion but turn a blind eye to the death of hundreds of children in countries where our foreign policy make their deaths possible or acceptable. Its totally fair. Some will rage about Obama's belief in the right to choose but will be silent about the death of hundreds perhaps thousands of children in Iraq and Afghanistan, why? Shouldn't you be angry with McCain for supporting a war which cost so many children's lives? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Its really about the consistency of an argument. If you have genuine concern for unborn children it should also translate to concern for children who are already born. In my experience many of those who are concerned about unborn children do not seem to express as much outrage about children who die needlessly in Iraq or Afghanistan etc. We will rage about abortion but turn a blind eye to the death of hundreds of children in countries where our foreign policy make their deaths possible or acceptable. Its totally fair. Some will rage about Obama's belief in the right to choose but will be silent about the death of hundreds perhaps thousands of children in Iraq and Afghanistan, why? Shouldn't you be angry with McCain for supporting a war which cost so many children's lives? Of course I do....a life is a life, no matter where the person lives or what the age of the person is... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 So how can you vote for someone who supports this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Unfortunately, because of sin, many innocent people die in war.....that is a result sin... It doesn't matter who the next president is going to be....we will have war...that is a given...the Bible says wars and rumors of wars in the last days.... As to voting for McCain...I'm undecided...we honestly haven't decided if we are going to vote at all...I'm not a McCain fan....but I KNOW that it is wrong to vote for Obama... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Yes Tammy. WE do know that it is wrong to vote for Obama. Just look at the friends he keeps. But the only other choice we have in reality is McCain. And my thought is that it will be good training ground for the best candidate ... Sarah Palin Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 There are several third party candidates to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 26, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 26, 2008 a life is a life, no matter where the person lives or what the age of the person is... The Religious right has signally failed to reflect scripture and the heart of God when it comes to the notion that a "life is a life". I have never ever seen a religious right commentator or spokesperson who has lamented, with any degree of passion, the deaths of Iraqi children. In fact these children are clearly expendable in the same way that a woman may abort her child to protect her career. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Expound on that Olger.... In the occult people give ground to the enemy in hopes of receiving power. In rebellion it is the same way. In both cases they go into bondage from the enemy. "The rebellious dwell in a dry land." Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Yes Tammy. WE do know that it is wrong to vote for Obama. Just look at the friends he keeps. But the only other choice we have in reality is McCain. And my thought is that it will be good training ground for the best candidate ... Sarah Palin Of the four people in the running, Sarah is only decent choice. I must agree. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Sarah Palin is the only reason I would vote....and I still can't decide what to do. It seems like she really did some through cleaning up in Alaska...and her track record looks good...just wish she was running for the President instead of the Vice-President....unless McCain dies, I don't know really how much she would get to do... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 26, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 26, 2008 It is apparent that Mrs Palin is a drag on the McCain bid. If Mrs Palin is the best American can do then things are really bad. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 What you must remember, is that when it comes to politics, Christian demeanor takes second place....just look at all the outright gossip, innuendo and trash talking that goes on in these political forums all under an umbrella of piety! For an example of this ... just look at this posters previous three posts. (BTW ... I hate going against my friends on this issue and still look forward to when this is all over. Come Nov 4 Come quickly. I want my friends back.I hate being nasty to them. Forgive me Lord.) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 26, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 26, 2008 Originally Posted By: Redwood Yes Tammy. WE do know that it is wrong to vote for Obama. Just look at the friends he keeps. But the only other choice we have in reality is McCain. And my thought is that it will be good training ground for the best candidate ... Sarah Palin Of the four people in the running, Sarah is only decent choice. I must agree. But remember, in order to vote for Palin, you have to vote for McCain too... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 What you must remember, is that when it comes to politics, Christian demeanor takes second place....just look at all the outright gossip, innuendo and trash talking that goes on in these political forums all under an umbrella of piety! Not to mention all the lies and fears being spread around the entire internet by the McCain backers, which is largely the "religious" right. Which is hyprocritical in itself, since they really don't "back" McCain. It's no wonder the Muslims around the world look at America and are disgusted with Christianity. I listen to a fair amount of liberal and progressive shows, and I just don't hear that kind of trash talk going on against McCain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 What about those who repeat the lies about the lies? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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