Neil D Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Quote: But on the whole, but for lately, the school system was taught pretty well. Sure, there were some who didn't get taught to read, but they were in problem areas that need to be adddressed. Lately? How 'lately'? And how can you say I need a civics lesson? I can nearly quote the constitution and happily accept it at face value (sort of like the Bible should be taken). Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 No... I am one of the most upbeat people you'd ever want to meet. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Neil, I don't doubt for a minute that the education system has gotten worse over the past 8+ years. A lot of what I 'whined' about has gotten worse over the past 8 years. Where did I say the Democrats are to be blamed for everything bad? There are liberals in both parties and they seem to be the ones ending up in DC. Selfish, greedy Americans have put them there. The downward spiral is the result of the choices of our populace, we are a democracy after all, so we get what we vote for. I could rant about the Democrat-controlled this or the Republican-controlled that, but it misses the bigger point. We get what we vote for. My take on the recent election was that a vote for McCain would not have reversed our direction. It may (MAY) have slowed the speed at which we are traveling. A vote for Obama just stuck the accelerator to the floor. We've been warned that the last day events will be rapid. It's very easy to see how that is happening now. Since it was founded on Christian principles, I see any trampling on the Constitution as a parallel to the trampling of God's Word in the last days. You can't damage one without damaging the other. See the Great Controversy on that conclusion. So many have predicted that conservatives would be the ones bringing about the end of the world (read any article in Liberty magazine). Even a casual observer is having second thoughts on that theory. So I sound like I am sounding like I "have been parroting something memorised (sic)...like some republican document"? I break from institutional Republicanism often because they have their flaws. Just like in my personal life, I need an anchor (God's Word) to base my beliefs and core values, this country needs an anchor (the Constitution) to base its core values. The results of strictly adhering to both anchors ARE unity and peace. But we as a nation are continually rejecting both. Am I saying we should force Bible obedience on the nation? No. Obedience to the Constitution would be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Neil, I don't doubt for a minute that the education system has gotten worse over the past 8+ years. A lot of what I 'whined' about has gotten worse over the past 8 years. Where did I say the Democrats are to be blamed for everything bad? There are liberals in both parties and they seem to be the ones ending up in DC. Selfish, greedy Americans have put them there. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 28, 2009 Members Share Posted March 28, 2009 Bonnie where did you come up with the million+income for Obama? As far as I have always known the President of the US made about 250,000 a year. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Bonnie where did you come up with the million+income for Obama? As far as I have always known the President of the US made about 250,000 a year. pk http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/03/obama-releases.html I will see if I saved it otherwise will find again. In the meantime I thought this a little interesting. If I remember right I think his income was millions not million in 2007 and 2008. Will get it for you. Odd how is charitable giving doesn't reflect the giving he wants to do with everyone else's money. « Rosenberg Posts Papers on SSRN | Main | Tax Services v. Legal Services » March 25, 2008 Obama Releases 2000-2006 Tax Returns Barack Obama today released his 2000-2006 tax returns: * 2006 Return * 2005 Return * 2004 Return * 2003 Return * 2002 Return * 2001 Return * 2000 Return Here is a summary of the figures: Obama_tax_returns_2 What is surprising, given the recent controversy over Obama's membership in the Trinity United Church of Christ, is how little the Obamas apparently gave to charity -- well short of the biblical 10% tithe for all seven years. In two of the years, the Obamas gave far less than 1% of their income to charity; in three of the years, they gave around 1% of their income to charity. Only in the last two years have they given substantially more as their income skyrocketed -- 4.7% in 2005 and 6.1% in 2006. (Of course, it is possible that the Obamas may have made gifts to other worthy causes that were not deductible for federal income tax purposes.) Update: * Bloomberg News: Obamas Gave Less Than 1 Percent of 2000-2004 Income to Charity, by Ryan J. Donmoyer & Julianna Goldman Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 The income is almost 4 million. http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/04/obamas_2007_income_tax_return.html Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 His redistribution of wealth does not seem to include his. He seems much more interested in redistributing yours and mine than he does spreading his around Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 28, 2009 Members Share Posted March 28, 2009 very interesting. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2009 A couple of years ago a member of my church had a stroke. He and his wife work hard but are on a low income. He suffered the stroke while driving his car. He had to be taken by helicopter to one hospital and then another. He survived and is doing as well as expected. In the days following his stroke the biggest challenge that emerged was the question of how they were going to pay for his health care costs. To my mind his main concern should have been how to restore his health. I was willing and I did pay higher taxes in the UK so that others could get the health care they needed. It's a simple question of what kind of society we want to be in the US. It shows perverted priorities to be willing to spend $500b on a needless war and not be willing to provide all children with free health care for example. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2009 "Give me a break" Americans have been trampling on their constitution since its inception. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Where in our history was the US ever established to provide free health care to "all children"? Do not the parents have ANY responsibility to provide for their own any more? The defense of our nation will always be debated (what is necessary, what is needless?), but no one will refute that one of the main jobs of the federal gov't is to protect its citizens from the threats of our enemies. I think that equating the defense of our nation and the health care of its citizens has no basis in the Constitution. Perhaps the next step should be for the gov't to take over the economic support of our nation's pastors. The churches are seeing a decline in charitable contributions and pastors and church leaders are dependent on the good will of their parishioners. When the support of parishioners have dropped below a certain critical level, our new president should provide bailout funds for them, too. The government is the answer to everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2009 Perhaps the next step should be for the gov't to take over the economic support of our nation's pastors. The churches are seeing a decline in charitable contributions and pastors and church leaders are dependent on the good will of their parishioners. When the support of parishioners have dropped below a certain critical level, our new president should provide bailout funds for them, too. The government is the answer to everything! Are you trying to retreat to a personal attack to make your point? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2009 Where in our history was the US ever established to provide free health care to "all children"? Do not the parents have ANY responsibility to provide for their own any more? Where was it established in the constitution for the government to send a man to the moon, explore space, build a national interstate road system, provide health care for the military. does the constitution mention oversees aid? There are many things that the constitution does not mention but you agree that the government should do. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Where in our history was the US ever established to provide free health care to "all children"? Do not the parents have ANY responsibility to provide for their own any more?.... I think that equating the defense of our nation and the health care of its citizens has no basis in the Constitution. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Interesting Lazaarus. I guess each side has its pros and cons. I do know that my family living in germany loves the health care system they have. When my mom talks to her sister in germany, her sister is just appalled at what my mom has to go thru here to get health care. My Aunt who is about 10 years younger than my mom doesn't pay penny now, she just goes and sees a doctor and if more medical advice they can see another specialist and so on with no problems. They've paid for there medical all the years that they worked. They seem to like it. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Quote: Perhaps the next step should be for the gov't to take over the economic support of our nation's pastors. The churches are seeing a decline in charitable contributions and pastors and church leaders are dependent on the good will of their parishioners. When the support of parishioners have dropped below a certain critical level, our new president should provide bailout funds for them, too. The government is the answer to everything! Being dependent myself on Pastor's pay ... I don't find this anywhere close to a personal attack. I think it is a good post and brings out a valid concern. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 "Where was it established in the constitution for the government to send a man to the moon, explore space, build a national interstate road system, provide health care for the military. does the constitution mention oversees aid? There are many things that the constitution does not mention but you agree that the government should do." Who said I agree with all those things that you mention? I didn't say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I'm surprised the word 'bash' hasn't been mentioned. I wasn't attacking anyone, especially thin-skinned pastors. I was taking a trend and extending it to a logical conclusion. If enough pastors lobby for it, and have some sort of political power (like getting the pope's blessing), I'm sure our Congress would pay attention and make things 'right'. Life and liberty go hand-in-hand. Liberty exists when the gov't steps out of the way of the people. Let us govern ourselves again. The belief that only gov't can save me from myself and knows better than I do what I need, want or desire is ludicrous. There is nothing wrong with insurance, when it's voluntary. There is nothing wrong with seat belts and helmets, when I wear them voluntarily. There is nothing wrong with a whole lot of issues out there... as long as I have the free choice to decide my life for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 TU Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 I'm surprised the word 'bash' hasn't been mentioned. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 "Ah, so I should pay for you when you decide NOT to wear seatbelts and you get into a car accident." No, you should not! What are reading? I have repeatedly stated that I believe in personal responsibility. Maybe you don't know what the definition of that phrase is. "And you think that people LIKE needles stuck into them?" No. Again, where did you read that? I am now questioning your ability to comprehend. I do believe that people are not motivated enough to AVOID health problems. The reasons are many. But the point is that they are deciding their lifestyle (not me), so they should be responsible for their decisions (again, not me). "you felt that being forced to buy insurance was against your constitutional right to life liberty and the persuit (sic) of happiness?" (it's 'pursuit') Well, at least this statement is correct. If I know that my medical care will be covered by your money, I will be free to be as fat as I want, discard my helmet, do drugs, etc. The results of my lifestyle will not affect my pocketbook. After all, if I get messed up, I can get gov't (that's YOUR) money, unemployment, food stamps, social security and maybe even free rehab and housing, or at least gov't supplemented assistance. Not much incentive for me to be more responsible, is there? "You forget, in a hospital there is administered pain...there is indignitys (sic) adminstered (sic) to sick people to determine just what is diseased." (I'm tire of correcting the misspellings) I haven't forgotten. Again, I think that the pain, indignity, whatever, isn't enough to discourage harmful decisions. Now a little secret... I was an EMT, volunteer and paid, in PA for 27+ years and an X-ray Tech in the 70's and early 90's. I think I have a little knowledge of this subject. When I scraped up a DUI patient who wrapped his or her car around a pole or another car, I would also see my wallet thinning, because this victim CHOSE to drive while intoxicated and now will tap into my tax money for EMS, transportation, ER services, diagnostic services, surgery, hospital stays, rehab services, loss of employment, law enforcement investigations, court time, defense atty (maybe a public defender) and perhaps jail time. And that's just the offending victim's expenses. What about the innocent victim? So, why oh why should I pay for all of that? Why should I happily dole out high tax payments to cover the actions of this irresponsible idiot? This example is the extreme to make a point, but the fact is we are all paying for the irresponsible actions of others and I strongly believe we should not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If even half of this is true No thanks.......... http://www.nchc.org/documents/Germany.pdf The German health ministry concluded in May 2003 that their health care system suffered from a lack of competition; superfluous, insufficient or inappropriate care; shrinking revenue and an aging population.12 Long waits for care are a particular problem in Germany; in a 1990 poll, 19.4% of Germans reported waiting more than 12 weeks between being seen by a specialist and receiving surgery.13 To fix these issues, the ministry suggested, among other measures, that they provide incentives to promote cost-effective care; perform a therapeutic benefits/cost analysis of prescription drugs by the Centre for Quality in Medicine; and finance benefits not covered by health insurance by increasing the taxes on cigarettes. German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder recently passed a landmark health reform package, with the intent of reducing German health spending and bringing down health insurance premiums, which currently cost more than 14% of an individual’s monthly salary. The changes approved include a.) charges for non-prescription drugs, b.) an end to free treatments, such as health farm visits, c.) an end to free taxi rides to the hospital, d.), and the reduction of health insurance premiums.14 The measures (see above in “What does health care cost in Germany?”) have proved immensely unpopular. 11 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 This doesn't sound so great either. I am sure there must be some favorable agreement with this type of care but so far ntohing sounds all that great. Or cheap BTW. http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html Wait times for surgery in Canada at all-time high: study Last Updated: Monday, October 15, 2007 | 10:33 AM ET The Canadian Press A typical Canadian seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment had to wait 18.3 weeks in 2007, an all-time high, according to new research published Monday by independent research organization the Fraser Institute. "Despite government promises and the billions of dollars funnelled into the Canadian health-care system, the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required," said Nadeem Esmail, director of Health System Performance Studies at the Fraser Institute and co-author of the 17th annual edition of Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 "the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required" Average?!? That means half waited longer than 4 1/2 months. If I had a back pain issue for example, 4 1/2 months would seem like an eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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