bonnie Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie I am equally certain you have never heard anyone in real life advocate prostitution for women instead of welfare. Oh I have. Not just for women either. Men are prostitutes too. Necessity is a great motivator just like hunger. Please show the source where it is suggested to do away with welfare and replace with prostitution Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Germany Forcing Unemployed Women into Legalized Prostitution Quote: BERLIN, January 31, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - News agencies around the world are carrying the story of a young German woman, a qualified information technologist, who has been told that she faces suspension of her government relief benefits if she refuses to take a ‘job’ as a prostitute in a Berlin brothel. The unemployed woman, who has not been named, had indicated her willingness to take jobs outside her field and has worked in a café. Britain’s Daily Telegraph reported that the woman, who has not been named, received a phone call offering her an interview for a job. She did not realize the ‘job’ was prostitution in a brothel until she telephoned. After the woman refused, she was told by the job centre that her benefits would be cut off if she did not go into prostitution. Germany’s unemployment rate has reached the highest levels since reunification in 1990 and its welfare laws have recently been reformed. The new welfare regulations and the legalization of prostitution have combined to create a situation where women can be ‘sold’ by the state into sexual slavery. German law no longer considers prostitution, or as it is called, the ‘sex trade,’ to be immoral or inherently undesirable. Legalised German brothels are starting to avail themselves of national listings of unemployed women to ‘hire’ to perform sexual services. Under German law, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job or lose her unemployment benefit. “There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases, said. He added, “The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits.” Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 This has what to do with the US welfare mother? I realize Acorn would be on board but show me where in the US this requirement is being made Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Germany’s unemployment rate has reached the highest levels since reunification in 1990 and its welfare laws have recently been reformed. The new welfare regulations and the legalization of prostitution have combined to create a situation where women can be ‘sold’ by the state into sexual slavery. And the libs want the government MORE involved in their lives??? Why did the Germans reform their welfare laws? Because they CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF!!!! When are people gonna figure out that the freedom of personal responsibility is not only BETTER, it is CHEAPER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 18, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 18, 2010 When are people gonna figure out that the freedom of personal responsibility is not only BETTER, it is CHEAPER? Would you agree that the billions given in subsidies to exporters, farmers, student loan companies etc. should end? Companies should be responsible for their own sucess and failure right. They should be free to fail. A recent study found between 2002-2008 the US handed out 74 billion in subsidies to fossil fuel industries. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: karl When are people gonna figure out that the freedom of personal responsibility is not only BETTER, it is CHEAPER? Would you agree that the billions given in subsidies to exporters, farmers, student loan companies etc. should end? Companies should be responsible for their own sucess and failure right. They should be free to fail. Absolutely correct. Smaller government. Our government should not have the authority to give our money to anybody unless it is payment on a legitimate contract which has been put up for open, multiple bids. There should be no welfare for any person, corporation or country. Government welfare is just "redistribution of wealth." It is nothing less than bureaucrat-assisted theft from taxpayers. That which is wrong to do without government involvement, cannot be magically made right by government involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 18, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 18, 2010 So no research assistance for companies developing new military or medical technologies? No assistance for start-ups in key fields of innovation? No assistance for farmers who have had bad yield because of disease or weather? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 So no research assistance for companies developing new military or medical technologies? No assistance for start-ups in key fields of innovation? No assistance for farmers who have had bad yield because of disease or weather? R&D and innovative startups would flourish if we could just get government out of our pockets. These things are stifled, not helped, by government intervention.. Farm insurance should be purchased privately. Insurance got started in the shipping industry. Often ships had to be lightened in a storm and the cargo on the deck was the first to go. For a big shipper, this was just the cost of shipping. For a little guy, it might be his entire shipment. So a group of small merchants would hire the ship and agree with each other to pay the losses of any cargo thrown overboard. The same can be done with farm losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: lazarus So no research assistance for companies developing new military or medical technologies? No assistance for start-ups in key fields of innovation? No assistance for farmers who have had bad yield because of disease or weather? R&D and innovative startups would flourish if we could just get government out of our pockets. These things are stifled, not helped, by government intervention.. Farm insurance should be purchased privately. Insurance got started in the shipping industry. Often ships had to be lightened in a storm and the cargo on the deck was the first to go. For a big shipper, this was just the cost of shipping. For a little guy, it might be his entire shipment. So a group of small merchants would hire the ship and agree with each other to pay the losses of any cargo thrown overboard. The same can be done with farm losses. There is crop insurance.That is not a new concept. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 So no research assistance for companies developing new military or medical technologies? No assistance for start-ups in key fields of innovation? No assistance for farmers who have had bad yield because of disease or weather? It is Libertarian thought that suggests no government assistance should be given to anyone. Conservatives Republicans are not that radical. In fact, one of the first things President Bush did when he became President was to increase funding to the food stamp program. Many of the sentiments on this boards are more Libertarian in nature than Conservative. As I have demonstrated, the Libertarian argument leads to the poor having to prostitute themselves to survive. Many of these Libertarians group themselves with conservatives which is why I make the distinction between the compassion conservatives and the cold-hearted Libertarian ones. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Quote: It is Libertarian thought that suggests no government assistance should be given to anyone. Conservatives Republicans are not that radical. In fact, one of the first things President Bush did when he became President was to increase funding to the food stamp program. President Bush was not a conservative republican by any means. Quote: As I have demonstrated, the Libertarian argument leads to the poor having to prostitute themselves to survive. Many of these Libertarians group themselves with conservatives which is why I make the distinction between the compassion conservatives and the cold-hearted Libertarian ones. No,what you demonstrated was that in Germany prostitution has been made legal and therefor is a viable option to the secular mind. No one has suggested doing away with all public assistance and you know that. You want welfare to go on and on. Most of us simply want welfare to have limits. Help is offered,take advantage of it,stop using poverty as a crutch that leaves you incapable of productive action Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 19, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 19, 2010 No one has suggested doing away with all public assistance and you know that. Actually think that Karl is advocating that. Karl? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Libertarians do advocate banishing public assistance and legalizing prostitution. At least they are consistent. If we are going to kick poor folks off welfare we have to at least give them a way they can support themselves. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie No one has suggested doing away with all public assistance and you know that. Actually think that Karl is advocating that. Karl? I don't think karl wants children to go hungry but I will let him defend that. There are many options instead of prostitution. One is for the recipient to take full advantage of what is offered immediately on signing up for benefits. Suggesting that some may need 15 years to do so is nonsense.I am sure there are those that will wait till the very limit to help themselves. By the time they wait 15 years to decide their children are almost raised and have been so in a very demeaning and degrading enviorment. I can't speak for fathers but I know as a mother if someone looked me in the eye and told me this is what we require you do for the help we are willing to give or we will raise your children,no contest. I would be turning myself inside out to do whatever I was required to do. From the moment I saw my first son,he was first,last and always in my thoughts and concerns Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Libertarians do advocate banishing public assistance and legalizing prostitution. At least they are consistent. If we are going to kick poor folks off welfare we have to at least give them a way they can support themselves. We give them a way to support themselves.It is called job training,free education etc. Libertarians may advocate prostitution in general,they do not advocate prostitution instead of work. I think we have pretty well covered your exaggerated position on kicking poor folks off welfare. Poor folks are not necessarily stupid. They can and should be able to understand that "these are your benefits in exchange for your full cooperation in helping yourself become self supporting". They should not be aided and encouraged to "It may take me 15 years to get it,just be patient" If it were a choice between welfare and prostitution tens of thousands of women would be prostitutes. My mother probably one of them. No education and we would have made a church mouse look rich.She did the unthinkable,took any job she could get,if that were not enough at times,she was really radical and took a part time job besides. In time she moved to better paying jobs.That was without any of the help available now Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Most welfare moms have jobs. They just don't have enough skills to earn enough to be above the poverty line. The vast majority of people on welfare transition on and off. Only a small percentage are on it for an extended period of time. It is feel-good politics that wants to place an artificial time limit on people on welfare. Welfare benefits are not much. It is not a comfortable living. Most people on welfare still need to work and use food banks. It is not an attractive lifestyle. No one wants to stay on it for an extended period of time. Many that are on welfare for an extended period of time struggle with drug addiction and/or alcoholism. I believe all welfare recipients should be randomly tested for drugs and should have to take an alcoholism awareness class before qualifying for benefits. Treating drug addiction and alcoholism alone will get many off the welfare roles. Placing an artificial time limit on benefits does nothing to help the problem - except perhaps push them into prostitution. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 19, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 19, 2010 spot on! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Most welfare moms have jobs. They just don't have enough skills to earn enough to be above the poverty line. The vast majority of people on welfare transition on and off. Only a small percentage are on it for an extended period of time. It is feel-good politics that wants to place an artificial time limit on people on welfare. Welfare benefits are not much. It is not a comfortable living. Most people on welfare still need to work and use food banks. It is not an attractive lifestyle. No one wants to stay on it for an extended period of time. Many that are on welfare for an extended period of time struggle with drug addiction and/or alcoholism. I believe all welfare recipients should be randomly tested for drugs and should have to take an alcoholism awareness class before qualifying for benefits. Treating drug addiction and alcoholism alone will get many off the welfare roles. Placing an artificial time limit on benefits does nothing to help the problem - except perhaps push them into prostitution. Most of those collecting full welfare benefits do not work. They lose a portion of their benefits if they do. An acquaintance of mine was on welfare.I have forgotten the exact figures now of their actual monthly allotment. They received more dollar amount in food stamps than I allowed my family.I had a budget to follow and no one to "give" me when I ran short. Their medical insurance alone was more than I would have paid for insurance with a large deductible.I did not feel I could afford insurance at that time and did not have any. I had to pay the full house payment. I could not rent a 850.00(at that time) townhouse for 275.00. My house was not that much bigger or nicer. Her building was new,mine was 127 years old.No one gave us a cash allotment at the first of the month. When we were paid it was because of hard work. Had I wanted to continue a education I was expected to take out a loan and actually pay it back. My acquaintance was not under that restriction. When we compared her actual "take home" pay and ours it was not that far off. On the food bank issue. Did some checking with our two local food shelves. While they will not refuse a family on food stamps they do discourage regular use.They have a safety net that many today in this economy do not have. The food stamp allotment is 700.00 and something for a family of four. With reasonable care and planning that should be sufficient for a month. If not,maybe it is time to re-evaluate your buying habits. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Welfare to work.Tell me why a single mom would choose prostitution? These types of programs are available throughout the US.If they refuse to take advantage of what is available that is their responsibility. What is the Welfare-to-Work Program? The Welfare-to-Work Program is a comprehensive Employment and Training Program designed to promote self-sufficiency. CalWORKs recipients are assessed to determine the best course of action, whether it is immediate placement into a job, placement into an education or training program, or both. Who is eligible for Welfare-to-Work services? The CalWORKs Welfare-to-Work Program is open to anyone receiving CalWORKs cash aid. Anyone receiving CalWORKs cash aid must participate in the Welfare-to-Work program unless that person is exempt. Individuals are exempt when they have a good reason for not participating, such as being ill or incapacitated or are caring for an incapacitated person. What do I have to do if I'm in the Welfare-to-Work Program? When you apply for CalWORKs cash aid, we will determine if you meet a Welfare-to-Work requirement. If you do, then we will assess your education and work history. You may be scheduled for a two-week Job Club where you will learn basic job search skills, resume writing, Consumer Credit information, and other topics related to preparing you for the job market. If you do not have a job after completing Job Club, you will be scheduled for two weeks of Job Search. You may also have a more in-depth assessment to help you remove any barriers that may be preventing you from finding and keeping a job. What if I need child care or transportation so I can go to work or just need help looking for job? Support services for placement into a job include training to uncover the "hidden" job market, preparation of a resume, and support in looking for a job. All expenses, such as the cost of transportation, are paid by the Welfare-to-Work Program. Generally child care expenses will be paid unless you choose a provider that charges higher rates then we can pay. Once placed in a job, you will receive additional help with work supplies and continued help with transportation and child care. For more information on Child Care. For information on Transportation services. What about education and training programs? The Welfare-to-Work Program can assign you to, and pay for, an approved education or training program that prepares the participant to get a specific job. The Welfare-to-Work Program can pay for the cost of the education or training program, books and supplies, transportation, and child care costs. Once the training is completed, additional support is made available to you to find a job in that field. What happens after I get a job? When you start working, you may still be eligible to receive CalWORKs cash aid. The first $225 of your gross earned income is not counted, and 50% of the remaining gross income is also exempt as income. If you continue to receive CalWORKs cash aid, you may also be eligible for transportation, child care and other supportive services to help you advance in your job. If you are otherwise eligible, child care supportive services can continue for 24 months and beyond. You may want to connect with our business services team. You can receive advice on how to plan career advancement strategies. We want to provide you with the tools necessary to attain your goal - providing for your family. What happens when I am working and no longer eligible for CalWORKs? You may continue to be eligible for Job Retention services for up to six consecutive months the first time you go off aid due to being employed and up to three consecutive months if you go back on aid and then off again. Job retention services may include supportive services, mentoring, education services, adult basic education or English-as-a-second-language in addition to child care and transportation. You can also receive services through the One-Stop Centers. For more general information on Welfare-to-Work and Employment Services please contact: s Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie No one has suggested doing away with all public assistance and you know that. Actually think that Karl is advocating that. Karl? Private welfare is all I advocate. Government welfare is virtually incapable of distinguishing between the "worthy poor" as EGW puts it, and those who are scamming the system. Private welfare is the best protection against scamming and the most likely to insist on people at least making an attempt to support themselves and their families. Government welfare is theft over which we have no control whatsoever. If government has the power to take $50 from you and give it to a deadbeat, it has the power to take everything you have and give it to deadbeats. It really doesn't/shouldn't have that power and I advocate people taking back the power that government has usurped. The welfare issue truly is all or nothing with government, which is why there is no authorization in our constitution for individual welfare spending. Common welfare, yes, but it must benefit all the same. You think our founding fathers didn't have any poor people around when they wrote the constitution? They provided liberty (opportunity.) What people did with it was their part of the formula. If government can give your money or property to the down-and-out, this is an incentive for people to be down-and-out. The problem with libs is that they believe in the basic goodness of people. This is not a Biblical belief. Once you understand the basic depravity of humanity, you come to the right conclusions about giving men power over your life and property. They should have as little as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Most of those collecting full welfare benefits do not work. They lose a portion of their benefits if they do. That is simply inaccurate. Welfare doesn't pay enough for anyone to stay on it without working for any extended period of time. Anyone that is on it for an extended period and not working is getting additional income through an illegal means like prostitution, drug dealing, human smuggling or working for cash (unreported) like in house-keeping or babysitting. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 On the food bank issue. Did some checking with our two local food shelves. While they will not refuse a family on food stamps they do discourage regular use. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Interesting, if I lost my job and we had to live on unemployment, my current family would be eligible for $488 of food stamps. I think we would be making trips to the local food bank. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Interesting, if I lost my job and we had to live on unemployment, my current family would be eligible for $488 of food stamps. I think we would be making trips to the local food bank. Beans, rice, potatoes, vegetables, oatmeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Karl, the food bank is private charity. You should approve of that. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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