Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[Guest]

Wow Archie, now that's what I call a good post. Thanks for sharing. This looks like it will be a good study from what I've read so far.

[Overaged]

Or--do you want to be like the Pharisees who thought they knew the truth so they refused to understand what Jesus told them? It is very clear that the time of trouble has not happened yet, therefore none of the trumpets have sounded and neither have the 144,000 been sealed.

This time period has in fact started; it is called "the little time of trouble." The Bible calls "prophecy" so called, "the sure word of prophecy." You are making it very unsure.

[Overaged]

The fact is, Richard, we simply see something that you cannot see, at least not yet. You are making a personal judgement that the Holy Spirit is not working with us when, in fact, the Holy Spirit is working with all of us. Truth is real and not imagined, you are right in that. It is also singular and absolute, and knowable.

Not all truth is "knowable." God says so. Do you know where?

The Holy Spirit is not working with all of us when we want to set ourselves up as arbiters of truth.

[Overaged]

=Dr. Rich EGW's writings may have been inspired, but by who is the question. But I will not add anything to YOUR private little discussion. Good luck with that!

Quote:

"you are looking at the church and watching them, noticing little things, when your attention should be turned to your own soul's interest. God has not laid the burden of His flock upon you. You think that the church is upon the background, because they cannot see things as you do, and because they do not follow the same rigid course which you think you are required to pursue"

[jsm]

It is difficult to dialog with those who do not accept major portions of the Bible as inspired by God.

It is true that in “the time of the end...the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:9-10.

But we need more than those words in Daniel to guide us in the search for truth.

“Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.” Proverbs 26:12.

And we need to prayerfully search the ENTIRE Bible and do what God asks. The following are a few basics:

“The sum of Your word is truth ['the total of the full meaning of ALL Your individual precepts'];.” Psalms 119:160 Amplified Bible.

“To the law and to the testimony! If they do not SPEAK ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20.

(The NT writings must be tested by this and the next verse below, and not by what some here consider Catholic origin. Even now the Catholic Bibles are not the same as Protestant Bibles. The Ten Commandments are changed and they accept apocryphal writings as inspired.)

“For PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” Isaiah 28:10.

Both OT & NT apocryphal writings have been excluded from most Bibles based primarily on the two texts above: Isaiah 8:20; 28:10.

Remember also: "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29.

Too much speculation without "revealed" backing from the Bible can be misleading.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Or--do you want to be like the Pharisees who thought they knew the truth so they refused to understand what Jesus told them? It is very clear that the time of trouble has not happened yet, therefore none of the trumpets have sounded and neither have the 144,000 been sealed.

This time period has in fact started; it is called "the little time of trouble." The Bible calls "prophecy" so called, "the sure word of prophecy." You are making it very unsure.

Overaged,

You make this statement and then don't back it up with Scripture (EGW is not Scripture). Please show me in either Daniel or Revelation where there is mentioned a 'little time of trouble". Thanks.

[Overaged]

quote=Overaged]quote=Dr. Rich]

Or--do you want to be like the Pharisees who thought they knew the truth so they refused to understand what Jesus told them? It is very clear that the time of trouble has not happened yet, therefore none of the trumpets have sounded and neither have the 144,000 been sealed.

/quote]This time period has in fact started; it is called "the little time of trouble." The Bible calls "prophecy" so called, "the sure word of prophecy." You are making it very unsure. /quote]

Overaged,

You make this statement and then don't back it up with Scripture (EGW is not Scripture). Please show me in either Daniel or Revelation where there is mentioned a 'little time of trouble". Thanks.

Happy Sabbath! I am not aware of any rule that says we cannot comment on things here without backing it up; this is a discussion forum, and many people just make brief comments; it should be no big deal. If you really want proof; I may provide some later; but I noticed you had trouble providing proof that I am wrong. Do you not have the same rules for yourself, as you do others?

I did not say that "Ellen White was Scripture." When you provide proof that I am wrong; and I am clearer on exactly what you are trying to say here; I will try to provide some references for you. I was referencing "Dr" Rich's post that said "the time of trouble has not arrived" so I am presuming that one of you have something from Scripture to show where it mentions "time of trouble" and links it to trumpets or sealing?

[Archie777]

Wow Archie, now that's what I call a good post. Thanks for sharing. This looks like it will be a good study from what I've read so far.

Thank you. I hope we study it. But usually people ignore it.

[Overaged]

It is difficult to dialog with those who do not accept major portions of the Bible as inspired by God.

It is true that in “the time of the end...the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:9-10.

But we need more than those words in Daniel to guide us in the search for truth.

“Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.” Proverbs 26:12.

And we need to prayerfully search the ENTIRE Bible and do what God asks. The following are a few basics:

“The sum of Your word is truth ['the total of the full meaning of ALL Your individual precepts'];.” Psalms 119:160 Amplified Bible.

“To the law and to the testimony! If they do not SPEAK ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20.

(The NT writings must be tested by this and the next verse below, and not by what some here consider Catholic origin. Even now the Catholic Bibles are not the same as Protestant Bibles. The Ten Commandments are changed and they accept apocryphal writings as inspired.)

“For PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” Isaiah 28:10.

Both OT & NT apocryphal writings have been excluded from most Bibles based primarily on the two texts above: Isaiah 8:20; 28:10.

Remember also: "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29.

Too much speculation without "revealed" backing from the Bible can be misleading.

Hey; thanks for this post. It is very simple, clear, and informative. I enjoyed reading it.

[Woody]

Quote:

Too much speculation without "revealed" backing from the Bible can be misleading.

Usually ... speculation is all we have. So, you are correct that much of what we see is just that. Discernment and Interpretation. To each ... his or her own.

But when we see His Face ... it will all come together. :)

[Overaged]

Quote:

Too much speculation without "revealed" backing from the Bible can be misleading.

Usually ... speculation is all we have. So, you are correct that much of what we see is just that. Discernment and Interpretation. To each ... his or her own.

But when we see His Face ... it will all come together.

Hey! Happy Sabbath Woody! I have already "seen His face."

[Dr. Rich]

The text of Dan. 12:10 actually states, "Those with insight". The 144k will be those with insight given to them by the good and faithful servant as found in Matthew 24:42-.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hey! Happy Sabbath Woody! I have already "seen His face."

Doesn't the Bible say that no one can look upon His face and live?

[Dr. Rich]

So overaged, how would you like it if I tried to PROVE something by using a comic book? Don't you see how ridicules this can get if we refuse to turn to the words of Jesus?

It would be nice for all of us to show some type of love for others on these threads. Most of us have been victims to what our bible teachers have been writing which was taught to them by people who have been dead for a long time. This understanding can't be rejected until one honestly searches for the the real truth. Since the real truth was sealed up until the last generation, wouldn't the wise thing to do now is to search for this new truth? I just don't agree with you that all of the truth can't be learned. Jesus didn't lie when He promised that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth.

There is no such thing as a so called "Little Time Of Trouble"! And the mistaken belief of the two witnesses being the old and new testament should be clear to see now. Most of the understanding of end times prophecy by those who are long gone is liken to small kids trying to force pieces of a jigsaw puzzle into places they don't belong. Why people are still trying to do this now is a question we all should be shouting.

[jsm]

Concerning what has been called the little time of trouble:

Daniel 12:1 tells of "a time of trouble such as never was" after the close of probation.

But there is clearly "a little time of trouble" in the verses just before that event. Daniel 11:40-45. This is still in the future, including the general war and confusion plus persecution of God's people.

Consider also what is written in the Revelation, where events described in chapter 16 take place after the close of probation, as in Daniel 12:1.

Events described in Revelation 8-11 take place before those seven last plagues in a short period that may be described as the little time of trouble.

This is explained below by Ted Wade of Andrews University and in my paper at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

Ted wrote: “Just as the seven trumpets unfold in the opening of the seventh seal, so we will find the seven last plagues unfolding within the time of the seventh trumpet.”

“And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully.” EW 33.

This is obviously a little time of trouble just before the close of probation, and may be compared to the Revelation 18 call to come out of spiritual Babylon -- which is in a setting of troublous times just before the close of probation.

Choose any one, or all, of the above to describe the coming "little time of trouble."

[Guest]

Since the real truth was sealed up until the last generation, wouldn't the wise thing to do now is to search for this new truth?

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Hey! Happy Sabbath Woody! I have already "seen His face."

Doesn't the Bible say that no one can look upon His face and live?

Yes; you are totally, 100% correct on that point. I worded it that way to make a point to Woody. I will see if I can make it simple and brief.

I think we can all agree that God is bigger than us?

Therefore, if God is in us, He will show through, won't He? ("Christ IN YOU, our Hope in glory.."

So when I say: "I saw His face," I meant that someone treated me with kindness today. I hope that makes some kind of sense.

[Overaged]

Concerning what has been called the little time of trouble:

Daniel 12:1 tells of "a time of trouble such as never was" after the close of probation.

But there is clearly "a little time of trouble" in the verses just before that event. Daniel 11:40-45. This is still in the future, including the general war and confusion plus persecution of God's people.

Consider also what is written in the Revelation, where events described in chapter 16 take place after the close of probation, as in Daniel 12:1.

Events described in Revelation 8-11 take place before those seven last plagues in a short period that may be described as the little time of trouble.

This is explained below by Ted Wade of Andrews University and in my paper at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

You make a good point re "the little time of trouble;" and the one thing I would add is that the phrase "little time of trouble" could be replaced by a number of theological descriptors. What it all points to is a gradual building up of to the final point of...as in end times, and then, the end of time.

[Woody]

Quote:

Yes; you are totally, 100% correct on that point. I worded it that way to make a point to Woody. I will see if I can make it simple and brief.

I think we can all agree that God is bigger than us?

Therefore, if God is in us, He will show through, won't He? ("Christ IN YOU, our Hope in glory.."

So when I say: "I saw His face," I meant that someone treated me with kindness today. I hope that makes some kind of sense.

TU Now that is cool. I really liked the way you turned that around. TU

[Overaged]

So overaged, how would you like it if I tried to PROVE something by using a comic book? Don't you see how ridicules this can get if we refuse to turn to the words of Jesus? Jesus gave His disciple a commandment saying to love one another, but do you think Paul agreed with that? Sure we have the wonderful 'love' chapter that Paul gave us, but when it came time to show love to Peter and the rest of Jesus' disciples, he just thumbed his nose at them.

It would be nice for all of us to show some type of love for others on these threads. Most of us have been victims to what our bible teachers have been writing which was taught to them by people who have been dead for a long time. This understanding can't be rejected until one honestly searches for the the real truth. Since the real truth was sealed up until the last generation, wouldn't the wise thing to do now is to search for this new truth? I just don't agree with you that all of the truth can't be learned. Jesus didn't lie when He promised that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth.

There is no such thing as a so called "Little Time Of Trouble"! And the mistaken belief of the two witnesses being the old and new testament should be clear to see now. Most of the understanding of end times prophecy by those who are long gone is liken to small kids trying to force pieces of a jigsaw puzzle into places they don't belong. Why people are still trying to do this now is a question we all should be shouting.

Your "comic book" appears to be your web site, and your very determined and sustained efforts to re-invent truth to the point of pleasing your own "private interpretations" on just about every subject in the Bible. This kind of apriori in everything you argue about here gives you the distinct disadvantage of having to resort to all kinds of wacky theories. There is no such thing as this "new truth" you mention; atleast not in the context of voiding already known truths. Any "new truth" must build on other truths that are already known and understood. This is a common approach in all 66 books of the Bible; and in all Bible prophecy. It is called "the sure word of prophecy," not the unsure word, that changes with each new idea we get in our heads to make Adventists look "wrong."

I wonder; what would you say is "present truth?" (HINT: "present truth" is for the end time).

[Overaged]

Quote:

Yes; you are totally, 100% correct on that point. I worded it that way to make a point to Woody. I will see if I can make it simple and brief.

I think we can all agree that God is bigger than us?

Therefore, if God is in us, He will show through, won't He? ("Christ IN YOU, our Hope in glory.."

So when I say: "I saw His face," I meant that someone treated me with kindness today. I hope that makes some kind of sense.

TU Now that is cool. I really liked the way you turned that around. TU

LOL, well it isn't really meant to be "turned around" in any way. That's how I have always understood it. Are you saying you agreed or disagreed with this? I wasn't sure because of your use of the little "ear-digger" dudes in your post.

[Guest]

God commanded the Remnant Church to preach again the prophecies that led up to the Great Disappointment (minus the time elements). “Thou must prophesy again… [only] there should be time no longer” Revelation 10:11,6

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You believe that EGW was God's great mystery?

[Guest]

Maybe you should read what I said again.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You said, "I believe that."