SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Originally Posted By: SivartM Maybe we could have public stonings like they did in Bible times. We could even make it a family event. Parents could throw big stones and children could join in with smaller ones. Okay. You first. I think that people who are for the death penalty ought to go first... Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 But you were the one with the suggestion!!! Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I was being facetious... I would be absolutely horrified if anyone actually did that. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie Perhaps it would not be quite so hard for the families left behind if their feelings and loss received as much consideration as the monster that killed their loved one. I thought the entire debate about the death penalty was concerning the what to do with the guilty, not the victims. My bad. Can we only choose one to care about? You should not choose one,both need to be considered. But the sarcasm directed at those that disagree with you and the total exaggeration of what had been said,shows little but concern for the guilty. Inferring that the victims family should somehow make a family day of it shows nothing whatsoever towards those that have suffered unspeakable hell Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Originally Posted By: SivartM I thought the entire debate about the death penalty was concerning the what to do with the guilty, not the victims. My bad. Can we only choose one to care about? You should not choose one,both need to be considered. But the sarcasm directed at those that disagree with you and the total exaggeration of what had been said,shows little but concern for the guilty. Inferring that the victims family should somehow make a family day of it shows nothing whatsoever towards those that have suffered unspeakable hell I definitely did not say anything about the victims' families participating in my facetious suggestion. Certain other people in this thread, however, have mentioned the idea of victims' families conducting executions. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 I think that people who are for the death penalty ought to go first... One important One did, the Man named Jesus. Since He is God I'm satisfied you will find much evidence in the Word, of His solution to the impenitent and unrepentant. "For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior. Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation. For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience."Romans 13:3-5 AMP brackets parenthesis theirs' LHC Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 How do you know that the comment about family participation in executions was not also facetious??? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 How do you know that the comment about family participation in executions was not also facetious??? I think it was, but bonnie seemed to have missed that comment in her haste to correct me for a comment that I didn't make... Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Quote: I definitely did not say anything about the victims' families participating in my facetious suggestion. Certain other people in this thread, however, have mentioned the idea of victims' families conducting executions. This is hardly a topic that calls for facetious comments. You did not specifically say the family should but with what you did say came across as the family making a day of it... Maybe we could have public stonings like they did in Bible times. We could even make it a family event. Parents could throw big stones and children could join in with smaller ones Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 My cousin was raped,tortured and murdered by the green river serial killer. The hell her parents went thru trying to find her and then to be told how she died and by worse hands was a literal hell on earth for them. Your facetious comments would have told them volumnes about any concern for those left behind Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I'm very sorry about your cousin, but you seemed to have missed the fact that I was not talking about her, or anyone in your family, or the families of any victims of any murderers. I was talking about society in general making executions public entertainment. My example of stoning was directly from the Bible. I also mentioned the Coliseum. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 My cousin was raped,tortured and murdered by the green river serial killer.The hell her parents went thru trying to find her and then to be told how she died and by worse hands was a literal hell on earth for them. Your facetious comments would have told them volumnes about any concern for those left behind Very good points Bonnie. I've mentioned many times that if you can do the crime you need to pay the price. There's nothing wrong forgiving the culprit but in our society you need to take the penilty for your crime. Even God agrees with this. Just like the thief on the cross was forgiven by Jesus but he still paid for his crime. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLions Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I admit my confusion on this subject. I do not know where I stand on this subject. On one hand, punishment should meet the crime. I would even be for upping the punishment if you will. I think that those that cheat people out of their money in a grand scale (Enron) should face the death penalty, instead of living in a posh prison. Those kind of people do far worse for society then someone getting caught shoplifting 3 times, but seem to get off far better. I would really like to see that crime deterred. On the other hand, I am stairing down the executioners rifle myself. For the crime of worshipping on Sabbath. No the law isn't there yet, but it is a sure thing, because the Bible says so. So, do I support something that will lead to a great number of people dying for what I/they believe to be true. Once this thing gains momentum it will be impossible to stop. I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 I admit my confusion on this subject. I do not know where I stand on this subject. On one hand, punishment should meet the crime. I would even be for upping the punishment if you will. I think that those that cheat people out of their money in a grand scale (Enron) should face the death penalty, instead of living in a posh prison. Those kind of people do far worse for society then someone getting caught shoplifting 3 times, but seem to get off far better. I would really like to see that crime deterred. On the other hand, I am stairing down the executioners rifle myself. For the crime of worshipping on Sabbath. No the law isn't there yet, but it is a sure thing, because the Bible says so. So, do I support something that will lead to a great number of people dying for what I/they believe to be true. Once this thing gains momentum it will be impossible to stop. I really don't know. I agree with most of your post. Not sure about the death penalty for cheating people out of money! But definitely no plush accomodations. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie My cousin was raped,tortured and murdered by the green river serial killer.The hell her parents went thru trying to find her and then to be told how she died and by worse hands was a literal hell on earth for them. Your facetious comments would have told them volumnes about any concern for those left behind Very good points Bonnie. I've mentioned many times that if you can do the crime you need to pay the price. There's nothing wrong forgiving the culprit but in our society you need to take the penilty for your crime. Even God agrees with this. Just like the thief on the cross was forgiven by Jesus but he still paid for his crime. The penalty is so far down the road after the crime it is almost as if it has nothing to do with what they did. Dru Sjodin was a beautiful talented young woman from MN,that was raped,tortured,murdered by having her throat slit by a known sex offender. He had spent over 20 years in prison.He told authorities on more than one occasion that if they let him out he would do it again.The offender's sister begged the authorities not to let him out as he was just plain evil and would kill if given a chance. This man should have been put to death or confined for life,but we had to honor the rights of someone like him. He forfeited all rights,including the right to life. This time he was sentenced to death,but he still gets up every morning,unlike Dru. Her parents get up every morning living with the horror of what their daughter went thru before she mercifully died. I see very little in stories as Dru's to be factious about. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 The penalty is so far down the road after the crime it is almost as if it has nothing to do with what they did. Dru Sjodin was a beautiful talented young woman from MN,that was raped,tortured,murdered by having her throat slit by a known sex offender. He had spent over 20 years in prison.He told authorities on more than one occasion that if they let him out he would do it again.The offender's sister begged the authorities not to let him out as he was just plain evil and would kill if given a chance. This man should have been put to death or confined for life,but we had to honor the rights of someone like him. He forfeited all rights,including the right to life. This time he was sentenced to death,but he still gets up every morning,unlike Dru. Her parents get up every morning living with the horror of what their daughter went thru before she mercifully died. I see very little in stories as Dru's to be factious about. That's terrible, bonnie, and I'm so sorry. The man should have been confined to prison for the rest of his life. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 Well Bonnie on a personal level all I can say is sorry to hear this. Never having a family member that's gone through this its hard to know what you are going through. Its an evil world and I can't wait for the Lord to come. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldona Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo And let it be done on TV at primetime. It would be more likely to just turn into entertainment than a crime deterrent. Remember the Coliseum? Maybe we could have public stonings like they did in Bible times. We could even make it a family event. Parents could throw big stones and children could join in with smaller ones. That's what happens in places like Afghanistan...one of those barbaric practices that the US army is supposed to be there to eradicate. AJ Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 7, 2010 Members Share Posted August 7, 2010 erhmm...Australia has military in Afghanistan too. **back to topic** Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 That's terrible, bonnie, and I'm so sorry. The man should have been confined to prison for the rest of his life. We do not take the kind of horror so many go thru seriously.We have a battle going on in MN now with dangerous level 3 sex offenders. When their time is served in prison those most likely to offend again are being sent to a facility for confinement and treatment.No release date in sight,based on their progress. Many are fighting this and worried about their rights. They have forfeited their rights with the acts they have committed. They have the right to food,shelter,medical if needed and that is it.They have no right to be turned loose to committ again. The rights of the offender are far and above that of those they will harm or kill. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldona Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 erhmm...Australia has military in Afghanistan too. **back to topic** That's true. I don't think it makes my point any less valid. In fact, it gives me the right to comment here in the first place. AJ Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Why? The federal gov't and just about every state in the union is bankrupt. The average expense to maintain a prisoner is over $20k per year. That's $800,000 for a 40-lifer. Multiply that by how many lifers in the whole country. And there are starving people, sick people that need medical care, etc. etc. I just read that 32 out of the 50 States really are bankrupt, and more are on the brink. I know my state is very close. And they just spent $150,000 for four bells that were supposed to be hung in a tower....but the tower is not going to be built. Perhaps the State can put the bells on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2010 Members Share Posted August 8, 2010 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs erhmm...Australia has military in Afghanistan too. **back to topic** That's true. I don't think it makes my point any less valid. In fact, it gives me the right to comment here in the first place. AJ I didn't know it was an issue....there are lots of countries who have a military presence in Afghanistan. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. ???? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 The man should have been confined to prison for the rest of his life. And I think the people who wish him to be taken care of for the remainder of his life should be given the personal responsibility of giving him that care. Look how much money would be saved by giving that service. Maybe it could even be arranged to use one's own home if the perpetrator desired it. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Originally Posted By: SivartM The man should have been confined to prison for the rest of his life. And I think the people who wish him to be taken care of for the remainder of his life should be given the personal responsibility of giving him that care. Look how much money would be saved by giving that service. Maybe it could even be arranged to use one's own home if the perpetrator desired it. It is the responsibility of the state or federal government to keep dangerous people from harming others. You may think a level three sex offender should be released but most don't want them out with access to those he will harm. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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