SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Are we to have peace and tranguilty between religions? Why not? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie Are we to have peace and tranguilty between religions? Why not? I was hoping you could answer Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 No-one is arguing for lack of freedom. I'm not talking about government compulsion. I'm talking about human decency, and we're each accountable for our own. If you believe that this org should be denied a permit to burn the Quran,that is exactly what you are arguing for. This ...... human decency, and we're each accountable for our own doesn't have anything to do with the laws of this country. We all will be accountable but that doesn't have anything to do with burning the Quran or being denied a permit because of that. I doubt we would hear much from you if a group of muslims wanted to burn the bible. We shouldn't be burning the Quran,nor should we prevent anyone else from doing so. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 6, 2010 Nope, I wasn't opining on the permit issue at all. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Then just what were you opening, a can of worms? Hahahahahaha. Or as Maria would say: Kahkahkah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 6, 2010 I'm saying each of us is responsible for our own behaviour. Christians should choose, of their own free will, not to burn the Quran. Muslims should choose, of their own free will, not to burn the Bible. What I'm objecting to is the childish, 'race to the bottom' mentality that says 'Because someone else chooses to do something evil, that means I should too.' There will always be someone who chooses to behave badly - consequences of free will in the world. What I'm saying - all I'm saying - is that if our response to someone else's bad behaviour is to believe it gives us license to behave badly, the world will be a much worse place. On the other hand if, when we see others behave badly, we make a personal choice to behave well, the world will be a better place. It's a pretty simple concept. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Bravus, As previously mentioned, there's a high probability these events were orchestrated by those who stand to profit from increased tensions - CIA, CFR, NSA, AIPAC. A few plants in a Florida church suggest a memorial bonfire - good patriots - others volunteer Korans. Then halfway round the world these same forces instigate protests against Washington. It only takes a few well-placed agents to foment unrest and create an international incident. The media piles on and pretty soon we're all taking sides, reacting on cue like puppets. So now Congress can order more bombs to quieten those 'crazy Muslims'. Maybe drop in on a village wedding. All engineered in advance. Has been going on for decades. $400 million can seed quite a few riots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2010 On the one hand, that's a compelling narrative: I wouldn't put it past those people at all. On the other hand, conspiracies like this require competence to keep them running and secret, and I'm not sure we've seen enough displayed to make it plausible. But in the end it doesn't matter. We have freedom of choice, and we can choose to be incited to bad behaviour or choose to rise above it. If everyone heeded the call the personally choose to behave well, the provocation would simply fail. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 What I'm saying - all I'm saying - is that if our response to someone else's bad behaviour is to believe it gives us license to behave badly, the world will be a much worse place. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 On the one hand, that's a compelling narrative: I wouldn't put it past those people at all. On the other hand, conspiracies like this require competence to keep them running and secret, and I'm not sure we've seen enough displayed to make it plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 I'm saying each of us is responsible for our own behaviour. Christians should choose, of their own free will, not to burn the Quran. Muslims should choose, of their own free will, not to burn the Bible. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Bravus, as mentioned, All can choose to behave like Christ and none would be provoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Jesus taught us to do good to those who have, or wish to, harm us, and to lay down and let them hurt us again, if they so choose. Retaliation only drags us down to the lowest common denominator, while forgiveness and doing good to those who harm us demonstrates the type character needed in the next life. Soon, if everyone practiced unrestrained retaliation, we would live in a toothless, sightless world. There won't be any revenge-taking in the Kingdom of God, but here in this life, the forces of evil feed on it. There won't be any religion vs. religion in the Kingdom, because there won't be any religions, only a Master/Servant relationship. If the church-based Quran-burners read and understood the words and works of Jesus, they would see all people, including members of sometimes misguided or fanatical or hostile religions, as friends and future members of the Kingdom. Publicly burning someone's holy book isn't something Jesus would do, I believe. The Kingdom of God is like a bowl of nuts. Some nuts are really hard-shelled and tough to crack, while others are easy to pop open and enjoy. Inside of every nut, though, there is something tasty and useful. Unfortunately, religions, and their followers, sometimes wander off the path of compassion and self-sacrifice, and end up hurting people instead of helping them find the path that would lead them to live nobler, kinder, unselfish, lives. For the love of Self is the root of all evil, but the love of God is the beginning of all wisdom. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Jesus taught us to do good to those who have, or wish to, harm us, and to lay down and let them hurt us again, if they so choose. Retaliation only drags us down to the lowest common denominator, while forgiveness and doing good to those who harm us demonstrates the type character needed in the next life. Soon, if everyone practiced unrestrained retaliation, we would live in a toothless, sightless world. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Bravus, as mentioned, All can choose to behave like Christ and none would be provoked. Again,what does this have to do with applying for and obtaining a permit for a bonfire? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted September 7, 2010 Members Share Posted September 7, 2010 Here is what I found out about the burning permit: Quote: Gainesville officials say book burnings like the one planned by the Dove World Outreach Center are prohibited under the city's burning ordinance. source So, it does appear that the permit was denied due to the book burning agenda. Interesting. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Here is what I found out about the burning permit: Quote: Gainesville officials say book burnings like the one planned by the Dove World Outreach Center are prohibited under the city's burning ordinance. source So, it does appear that the permit was denied due to the book burning agenda. Interesting. Hopefully there is a prohibition for book burning .I would like to see how that law reads Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuff sed Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 I don't believe that the ban is enforced..............or the penalty is more like a slap on the wrist, "Don't do it again" thing. Does the pastor have 'the right' to burn the Koran?? Absolutely Is it is good idea for him to do so? Absolutely not. Do Muslims have a right to build a mosque near ground zero? Absolutely Is it a good idea for them to do so? Absolutely not. Hey, I just had a great idea? Let's make a deal that if they agree not to build the mosque we'll agree to not let the Koran be burned!!!!!!!! NUFF SED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 8, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 8, 2010 Do Muslims have a right to build a mosque near ground zero? Absolutely Is it a good idea for them to do so? Absolutely not. Hey, I just had a great idea? Let's make a deal that if they agree not to build the mosque we'll agree to not let the Koran be burned!!!!!!!! NUFF SED I think it would be an excellent idea to build the mosque becasue it may help to assuage some of the fear and anger that some Americans have towards Muslims. The fact that an equivalence is made between the burning of the Koran an the erection of a house of worship is an example of how high the hurdle is that needs to be overcome. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 8, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 8, 2010 Fahrenheit 451 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 I don't believe that the ban is enforced..............or the penalty is more like a slap on the wrist, "Don't do it again" thing. Does the pastor have 'the right' to burn the Koran?? Absolutely Is it is good idea for him to do so? Absolutely not. Do Muslims have a right to build a mosque near ground zero? Absolutely Is it a good idea for them to do so? Absolutely not. Hey, I just had a great idea? Let's make a deal that if they agree not to build the mosque we'll agree to not let the Koran be burned!!!!!!!! NUFF SED Just curious. Many christian groups,talk radio,and US citizens are opposed to the burning of the Quran. I think that is probably as it should be. How do the actions of the muslims protesting the planned "Quran" burningsquare with the often repeated "most muslims are peaceful" I have not seen any "peaceful" muslim speaking out and denouncing the call to kill americans. The pastor is one man,yet americans in general are blamed. The protest demaning american be killed are much larger in number. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 I have not seen any "peaceful" muslim speaking out and denouncing the call to kill americans. Were you looking? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 8, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 8, 2010 http://www.muslimsforpeace.org/ Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 A ban on book burning is itself probably unconstitutional. This may just be the beginning. If the city does fine the church for burning books, they could fight it and take the case all the way to the Supreme Court. Burning books is a form of expression. It can be a form of either political or religious speech. As long as the books belong to the person or group that is burning them, it becomes a private property and a freedom of expression issue. The odd thing is that most of the radical right-wing that is against the ground-zero mosque supports this church's right to burn books. They are anti-First Amendment in the mosque debate but pro-first Amendment in the book burning issue. I think that kind of takes off their mask. They are simply anti-Muslim. A consistent position is to be pro-First Amendment on both issues. Favor letting Muslims build their mosque and favor letting a church burn books. That is freedom. Hopefully this stupid pastor doesn't pay for his stupidity with his life. The tax-payers may end up paying for some kind of protection program to keep him alive after this stupid stunt. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie I have not seen any "peaceful" muslim speaking out and denouncing the call to kill americans. Were you looking? Yes,I anticipated if there were those willing to step out and condemn the reaction by "militant muslims" it would not be kept secret Didn't see any.Did I go diligently searching,No.If it were taking place it would be newsworthy. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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