BobRyan Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Originally Posted By: Woody In issues like this - I always have to ask "What would Jesus do"? And as previously discussed - Jesus is pro-choice. End of discussion. Not so quick,Woody. You've only given Jesus His label without discussing what it entails in action. Jesus is all in favor of "Lucifer go ahead make you choice - then go to the lake of fire if you choose evil". Jesus is all in favor of the Gen 9 law that says humans are made in God's own image and those who kill humans must be killed by humans. In fact in Gen 9:6 -- that is Jesus himself speaking. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 31, 2012 Members Share Posted March 31, 2012 Jesus is all in favor of "Lucifer go ahead make you choice - then go to the lake of fire if you choose evil". Jesus is all in favor of the Gen 9 law that says humans are made in God's own image and those who kill humans must be killed by humans. In fact in Gen 9:6 -- that is Jesus himself speaking. in Christ, Bob Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Your original charge seemed to suggest that "anti-choicers" were unwilling to (care for)adopt those whom they wished to save. I still suggest that. Not all of them, of course, but there are millions of people in America alone who want to force people to have children, but I have never heard any of my anti-choice friends talk about what will happen to the babies when they are born. You can't just force someone to have a child and then tell them good luck. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross Was not much of his purpose here on earth to be crucified? No. He came to die for the sins of the world, but not to be crucified. They didn't have to crucify him. Had they properly understood the prophecies, and accepted him, there is no way they would have crucified him. He could have died at the Temple, instead of being tortured and hung on a cross. Jesus mission was to reign as a king on the throne of David. That is what the Angel Gabriel told Mary, the mother of Jesus in the first chapter of Luke. God did not demand the death of his only Son; it was the Devil who demanded his death. God was not among those who were crying “crucify him.” God was doing all he could to avoid the death of Jesus; he sent his angel instead to warn Pilate that he was about to authorize the execution of an innocent man. God’s plan was for his people to accept Jesus as their Savior. Had they done so, Ellen White says that Jerusalem would eventually had become the capital of the entire world. Jesus was born to be King. When Satan succeeded in having Jesus killed, God’s plan was delayed, but not obliterated. Jesus will come back and will sit on David’s throne and reign as the King of the Jews and of the entire world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 So why is the crucifixion considered such a bad thing? Because it did depart from God’s original plan. God uses our mistakes to bless us. He transforms the curses into blessings. Jacob on his deathbed predicted that Levi, because of his sin, would be dispersed in Israel. Levi repented of his sin, and the Lord granted the Levites to become God’s teachers in Israel. The Lord transformed the punishment into a blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: doug yowell Your original charge seemed to suggest that "anti-choicers" were unwilling to (care for)adopt those whom they wished to save. I still suggest that. Not all of them, of course, but there are millions of people in America alone who want to force people to have children, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Who is "we"??? Most of the SDAs I know personally are in full agreement with your view. I believe that Nic's post was identified as being addressed to those opposers on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 BobRyan wrote: “Who is "we"??? Most of the SDAs I know personally are in full agreement with your view.” “We” includes you, me, and everybody who might have participated in the discussion in this forum. If most of your Adventists friends are pro-life, how come I have encountered so many Adventists who use the same argument whenever I post in defense of the unborn: “Abortion is wrong, but women should have the right to choose!” Have you read the Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion”? The emphasis is on choice and the idea that Jesus died to restore our freedom to choose. Did he? Really? Was this the reason Jesus died: to restore women’s right to choose to kill their own children? Well, this is a new Gospel for me. I always thought that Jesus died to save us from sin instead of restoring our freedom to murder! This erroneous emphasis on religious freedom gave us first the so called “therapeutic abortion” which eventually led us into "elective abortion." Our church leaders felt that permitting our hospitals to engage in abortions on demand was the right thing to do. It was a demonstration of our religious tolerance of evil. I don’t know where you live, Bob; but I live in Loma Linda, and most of the leading Adventists I know here believe that there is nothing wrong with abortion, and that women should have the freedom to choose without any consequences. As a church, we believe that there should be penalties for burglary, rape, the sexual abuse of children, acts of terrorism, and genocide; but when it comes to abortion, we have been indoctrinated into the idea that it would be wrong for society to impose a penalty for those engaged in profiting from the killing of innocent human beings who are waiting for the chance to take their firs breath. This is why some Adventists have become millionaires’ thanks to the profitable abortion business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 SivartM wrote: “I still suggest that. Not all of them, of course, but there are millions of people in America alone who want to force people to have children, but I have never heard any of my anti-choice friends talk about what will happen to the babies when they are born. You can't just force someone to have a child and then tell them good luck.” You seem to be enamored with the idea of choice while forgetting what choice we are talking about. Choice is great when we are talking about good and desirable alternatives. I am for choice between buying a Toyota and a Honda, but I am against choice when the choice is between either using poison or dismemberment as the method of killing an innocent unborn child. I have a question for you: Who are more active in the care of unwanted children—those in the pro-abort or the pro-life crowd? Have you seen the statistics? Have you also talked to the plight of the large number of infertile couples who have a hard time finding adoptable babies in the U.S. and have to go to the ends of the earth to secure a baby they can adopt? I have close relatives who went to the other side of planet earth to secure three children to adopt at great expense—over $25,000 for each child; and one of them is a child with special needs. I have friends who have gone to the country of Paraguay for the same purpose. I am wondering whether you are well informed about your theory that it is hard to find couples willing to adopt children. But, even if you were right; would this justify murder because we think that the child might become unloved if we let it live? Can you accurately predict which child will be loved and which one would be abused and neglected? Do you know someone who can? The pregnancy of Hagar in the Old Testament was a mistake, and what did God do: Did he recommend abortion? No, he promised Hagar his protection from want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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