Increased Light? On What?

[skyblue888]

"God has jewels in all the churches, and it is not for us to make sweeping denunciations of the professed religious world, but in humility and love, present to all the truth as it is in Jesus. Let man see piety and devotion, let them behold Christlikeness of character, and they will be drawn to the truth. He who loves God supremely and his neighbour as himself, will be a light in the world. Those who have a knowledge of the truth are to communicate the same. They are to lift up Jesus, the world`s Redeemer; they are to hold forth the Word of life." E.G. White, 4 B.C.1184

A.T. Jones: "The Reformation did not and does not consist in exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of the Roman Church. It was there as an incident, as an indispensible part of it, but it was not the message itself... If exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of that church could have wrought reformation, then the Reformation would have been in the world more than 500 years before it was." Lessons From The Reformation, p.102,103.

"The way to dispel darkness is to admit light. The best way to deal with error is to present the truth. It is the revelation of God`s love that makes manifest the deformity and sin of the heart centered in self." Desire of Ages,498.

There had been no want of men who saw the wrongs in the church, who feared the ultimate outworkings of those wrongs, and who were not afraid to raise their voices in protest and denunciation of what they saw. They included popes, bishops, priests, laymen and princes who for 500 years before the Reformation began, rose up one after the other and spoke forth their mind on the wrongs they saw, but it is the solemn and clear fact of history that not one of them alone or all of them together, ever even began to work reformation in the Roman Church. But when man arose with the LIVING GOSPEL gospel and preached that, then the REFORMATION had begun and with it the SHAKING and the persecution which most inevitably must follow.

In just the same way the preaching of the Laodicean message will accomplish a work of decided reformation and a clear cut shaking because it will be the preaching, not of denunciation of wrong primarily, but of the everlasting gospel. The message itself tells us that. Look again and see what it really does say,

"The message given by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is the message of God to the Laodicean church." E.G. White, LetterS-24, 1892.

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God`s righteousness? God has given them HIS MESSAGE. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is SALVATION for you but ONLY through the MERITS of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." Testimonies to Ministers,96,97.

These statements prove then that this message was the message sent to the Laodicean church in 1888 and in the succeeding years until 1901. Many rose up against it and succeeded in stifling the counsel of the True Witness, but the promise was that it would come again and when it did it would accomplish a shaking among the people of God. That time has come. It will go to the highways and byways of the church first and then will swell into the Loud Cry to the world. Soon will that bring upon the wise and the foolish virgins the fearful storm of persecution and trouble which shall divide the wheat from the tares and the good from the bad fish, and their destiny will be forever fixed.

to be continued

sky

[skyblue888]

Thus we can be sure that the shaking spoken of in The Great Controversy 608 is the second and final shaking. Before the Loud Cry begins, the fourth angel returns with his message--

"The loud cry must be preceded by a message to God's people which will accomplish an entire separation from the world." R.H.Vol.4,379.

This message is the very message which has been resisted in 1888 and in the following years, exactly as predicted by the parable of Matt.22. It is the offer of salvation but only through faith in the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour. See T.M.93,96,97; F.W.64-66.

The parable predicts that it will again be resisted. But the dipping of the gospel net in the preaching of the Laodicean message will not be without results, so that fish good and bad will be gathered for the loud cry church. All this takes place before the loud cry begins.

Then those who have received the message of truth take that selfsame message of the fourth angel in the mighty power of the Spirit to the churches of the world with the result that once again the gospel net dips into the sea bringing forth the fish good and bad. Then comes the closing scene when the great final test comes to divide the good FROM the bad. The lesson to be learned from this is that even though we have come out on the right side of every issue so far, this is not the guarantee of final victory. That GREAT FINAL TEST is still before us.

The majority of those who will be skaken out at the time of the great final test will be those who have come during the loud cry period. Those who are not involved on the right side of the first shaking within Laodicea can have no part in the second and final shaking. The vast majority of the Advent believers are shaken out when the Laodicean message comes to them and thus do not and cannot figure in a later shaking.

to be continued

[Alchemy]

GC 445.2 says; "The beast with two horns "causeth [commands] all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16, 17. The third angel's warning is: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." "The beast" mentioned in this message, whose worship is enforced by the two-horned beast, is the first, or leopardlike beast of Revelation 13 -- the papacy. The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. The "mark of the beast" still remains to be defined." {GC 445.2} (bold emphasis mine)

CTr 350.4 says; "This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel’s message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. All in regard to this matter is not yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll, but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord’s command to His servants is “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.”" {CTr 350.4} (bold emphasis mine)

Sister White clearly says that there will be more light on this subject. Now, some might say there has already been more light on the "Mark of the Beast" since Sister White penned these statements, but how can we know for sure?

[Alchemy]

GC 445.2 says; "The beast with two horns "causeth [commands] all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16, 17. The third angel's warning is: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." "The beast" mentioned in this message, whose worship is enforced by the two-horned beast, is the first, or leopardlike beast of Revelation 13 -- the papacy. The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. The "mark of the beast" still remains to be defined." {GC 445.2} (bold emphasis mine)

CTr 350.4 says; "This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel’s message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. All in regard to this matter is not yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll, but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord’s command to His servants is “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.”" {CTr 350.4} (bold emphasis mine)

Sister White clearly says that there will be more light on this subject. Now, some might say there has already been more light on the "Mark of the Beast" since Sister White penned these statements, but how can we know for sure?

I would like to modify my question to ask; How can we know for sure we have received all the light to come?

[skyblue888]

All in regard to this matter is not yet understood...

I have always understood that to mean that during the latter rain and loud cry more light will shine and our understanding will increase as well as we shall grow up into Christ until the full corn of His character is in the ear. See 1 T 353.

How can we have received all the light to come when we are not there yet? For now we are to study the light that is already here and that is what this series is all about.

We cannot speculate as to what new light there will be.

sky

[skyblue888]

Thus we can be sure that the shaking spoken of in The Great Controversy 608 is the second and final shaking. Before the Loud Cry begins, the fourth angel returns with his message--

"The loud cry must be preceded by a message to God's people which will accomplish an entire separation from the world." R.H.Vol.4,379.

This message is the very message which has been resisted in 1888 and in the following years, exactly as predicted by the parable of Matt.22. It is the offer of salvation but only through faith in the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour. See T.M.93,96,97; F.W.64-66.

The parable predicts that it will again be resisted. But the dipping of the gospel net in the preaching of the Laodicean message will not be without results, so that fish good and bad will be gathered for the loud cry church. All this takes place before the loud cry begins.

Then those who have received the message of truth take that selfsame message of the fourth angel in the mighty power of the Spirit to the churches of the world with the result that once again the gospel net dips into the sea bringing forth the fish good and bad. Then comes the closing scene when the great final test comes to divide the good FROM the bad. The lesson to be learned from this is that even though we have come out on the right side of every issue so far, this is not the guarantee of final victory. That GREAT FINAL TEST is still before us.

The majority of those who will be skaken out at the time of the great final test will be those who have come during the loud cry period. Those who are not involved on the right side of the first shaking within Laodicea can have no part in the second and final shaking. The vast majority of the Advent believers are shaken out when the Laodicean message comes to them and thus do not and cannot figure in a later shaking.

to be continued

Fearful indeed will that time be. Then everything which can be skaken will be skaken and only those who have the truth as a living principle in the heart will be able to stand.

"Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme.(Dan.11:45) The church may appear as if about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion are sifted out--the chaff from the wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths. We must be divested of our self-righteousness and arrayed in the righteousness of Christ." 2 S.M.380.

"Now is the time for God's people to be true to principle. When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice and loyalty from their treason. The nation will be on the side of the great rebel leader." Testimonies, Vol.5,136.

This will be the great final test.

sky

[skyblue888]

Having established in our study thus far that the shaking described in The Great Controversy, 608, is the SECOND AND FINAL SHAKING, we are now prepared to study in more detail the nature of the great final test which shall come upon the people of God and which test they must have before they can receive the final seal. Heretofore, we have seen only that the great final test is the death decree, but now we are to see that it is not so much the fact that it is the death decree, but rather the death decree in the PARTICULAR SETTING AND CIRCUMSTANCES in which it is imposed upon the believer, which makes it so great a test.

We are all well aware of the fact that a certain test given to us under one set of circumstances can be infinitely more trying and fearful than the exact same test given under more favorable circumstances.So we are now to learn that not only are we to face the supreme test of a death decree, but that it must be faced under the most difficult circumstances possible so that the pressure of it and the dread of it will be felt to the utmost. The martyrs faced the death sentence again and again but never in the setting in which the saints of the last days will have to face it. Their test was great, it is true, but never to be compared with the test to be faced by the faithful of the very last days.

The picture of this unfolds as we continue the reading and study of our chapter from The Great Controversy. Let us ead right on now from where we left off in the last chapter.

"In this time of persecution, the faith of the Lord's servants will be tried. THEY HAVE FAITHFULLY GIVEN THE WARNING, looking to God and to His word alone. God's Spirit, moving upon their hearts, has constrained them to speak. Stimulated with holy zeal, and with the divine impulse strong upon them, they entered upon the performance of their duties without coldly calculating the consequences of speaking to the people the words which the Lord had given them. They have not consulted their temporal interests, nor sought to preserve their reputation or their lives. Yet, when the STORM OF OPPOSITION AND REPROACH bursts upon them, some, overwhelmed with consternation, will be ready to exclaim,'HAD WE FORESEEN THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR WORDS, WE WOULD HAVE HELD OUR PEACE.' They are hedged in with difficulties. Satan assails them with fierce temptations. The work which they have undertaken seems far beyond their ability to accomplish. THEY ARE THREATENED WITH DESTRUCTION. The enthusiasm which animated them is gone; yet they cannot turn back. Then, feeling their utter helplessness, they flee to the Mighty One for strength. They remember that the words which they have spoken were not theirs but His who bade them give the warning. God put the truth into their hearts, and they could not forbear to proclaim it." 608,609.

to be continued

sky

[skyblue888]

There are three sentences in this paragraph which make it plain that it is describing how things will be right at the end of the loud cry period.

They are these: "They have faithfully given the warning... They are threatened with destruction... The enthusiasm which animated them is gone."

The first of the three sentences reveals that the giving of the warning is by this time a thing of the past. It does not say that they "are giving" but that they "have given" the warning. The former would be present continuous tense while the latter is past tense and is used to describe that which has been done, in this case the final warning to mankind.

In harmony with this is the statement that they are threatened with destruction. This reveals that the death decree now hangs over their apparently defenceless heads. Knowing as we now do when the death decree comes, we can know to what point of time the sentence, "They are threatened with destruction," brings us. It brings us to that point of time just before the close of probation when the great final test is brought to bear against the people of God.

The third sentence tells us that the "enthusiasm which animated them is gone." This is a definite indication that the latter rain has dried up. It cannot and does not fall forever either in nature or in grace. Once its work is done, then it no longer is needed and it dries up. It would be impossible for the people of God not to be animated with enthusiasm while the Holy Spirit was still flooding through them in latter rain power. Therefore, the very fact that the "enthusiasm which animated them is gone," indicates that the time has been reached when the last work which can be done by the Holy Spirit, has been accomplished and the latter rain has dried up leaving them seemingly powerless and helpless.

This is not to say that the Holy Spirit has forsaken them. By no means! His presence in them will be just as real as actual at that time as ever before, but He will no longer be flowing through them, not because of any fault or failure on their part, but because of the fault and failure on the part of men in the world to receive the gracious warning given them.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

It is when the Spirit is flowing through us in power, that we are most conscious of and joyful in His presence, whereas He can be in us without there being any physical consciousness or witness that He is there. We find ourselves in trials and hard places and at times the Spirit seems to have forsaken us, but we come to learn that this is only apparent and not real, for He is present in these difficult passages as ever.

All this is a preparation for service and for witnessing. This is the most joyful part of the experience in the Holy Spirit, the time when we are most conscious of His presence. But the Spirit will only work through us, provided we maintain the proper connection with Him by appropriating to ourselves the merits of Christ while ever there is a field in which to work.

When the hearts of those within the sphere of our influence become so hardened as to be settled in their rejection of the Spirit's ministry through the believer, then the Spirit is withdrawn, not from the believer, but from the rejector, but, in thus being withdrawn, it ceases to flow as a current through the believer, to rest instead within him until such time as there is a further opportunity for the Spirit to flow to a needy soul.

1888 was a good example of this: "Christ knocked for entrance but no room was made for Him, the door was not opened and the light of His glory, so nigh, was withdrawn." E.G. White, Letter 73,1890.

It is at this point that the faith of the believer is really tested. He has been experiencing the very real thrill of the working of the Spirit but then quite suddenly this dries up. He is at once tempted to think that the Spirit has left him and begins to cast around in his own life to see what he has done to grieve the heavenly Guest. At the same time he is conscious of the pain of the discouragement and disapointment over the refusal of the souls for whom he has been laboring, which is a real test of faith in the truth itself, because we know that every time a soul refuses the truth it makes us wonder if we have the truth after all. The higher the pitch and the greater the intensity of the previous experience under the working of the Spirit's power, then the greatest the reaction when the termination of that experience arrives.

Next we will look at the experience of Elijah.

sky

[skyblue888]

At the 1897 General Conference E.J. Waggoner gave a couple of lectures on the Sabbath more fully. Very interesting. Not familiar with them?

sky

[skyblue888]

Of course the Sabbath truth will be preached more full during the latter rain and loud cry as it will become the controverted point and the bearers of the message will be filled with the Holy Spirit.

sky

[skyblue888]

It is when the Spirit is flowing through us in power, that we are most conscious of and joyful in His presence, whereas He can be in us without there being any physical consciousness or witness that He is there. We find ourselves in trials and hard places and at times the Spirit seems to have forsaken us, but we come to learn that this is only apparent and not real, for He is present in these difficult passages as ever.

All this is a preparation for service and for witnessing. This is the most joyful part of the experience in the Holy Spirit, the time when we are most conscious of His presence. But the Spirit will only work through us, provided we maintain the proper connection with Him by appropriating to ourselves the merits of Christ while ever there is a field in which to work.

When the hearts of those within the sphere of our influence become so hardened as to be settled in their rejection of the Spirit's ministry through the believer, then the Spirit is withdrawn, not from the believer, but from the rejector, but, in thus being withdrawn, it ceases to flow as a current through the believer, to rest instead within him until such time as there is a further opportunity for the Spirit to flow to a needy soul.

1888 was a good example of this: "Christ knocked for entrance but no room was made for Him, the door was not opened and the light of His glory, so nigh, was withdrawn." E.G. White, Letter 73,1890.

It is at this point that the faith of the believer is really tested. He has been experiencing the very real thrill of the working of the Spirit but then quite suddenly this dries up. He is at once tempted to think that the Spirit has left him and begins to cast around in his own life to see what he has done to grieve the heavenly Guest. At the same time he is conscious of the pain of the discouragement and disapointment over the refusal of the souls for whom he has been laboring, which is a real test of faith in the truth itself, because we know that every time a soul refuses the truth it makes us wonder if we have the truth after all. The higher the pitch and the greater the intensity of the previous experience under the working of the Spirit's power, then the greatest the reaction when the termination of that experience arrives.

Next we will look at the experience of Elijah.

sky

An excellent example of this is the experience of Elijah at the gates of Jezreel. All day he had battled the priests of Baal at the altars on Mount Carmel. Empowered by the Holy Spirit, he had stood ceaseless guard over the situation, never daring for a moment to relax his vigilence. Then had come the triumph of the vindication of the truth of God, the slaughter of the wicked priests of Baal, the lonely intercession for the rain, the answer to his prayer and the heaven empowered run in the driving rain back to the gates of Jezreel. Then suddenly it was all over. Physically and mentally exhausted, he sank down into a deep sleep from which he was awakened to hear the dreadful threat of Jezabel,--the death sentence.

No longer was the Spirit flowing through him for, at that moment there was nowhere for it to flow, and Elijah felt desperately alone and forsaken, even though in fact he was anything but that. Yet that was all that he could see and feel, and, seeing and feeling only that, he turned and ran for his very life. The higher the peak of spiritual activity while the Spirit is flowing through us, the greater the sense of let-down when that current ceases to flow when the work is done.

Thus it was with Elijah back then and thus it will be with the people of the Lord when the Loud Cry is finished. That which makes the illustration from the life of Elijah even more to the point is that he is the type of the very people who will give the Loud Cry. He battled the Ahab and Jezabel of his day who are the type of the great apostate system of the last days, for exactly as Ahab and Jezebel were the combination of a church and the power of the state united to enforce the worship of Baal in defiance of the God of Heaven, so will the Ahab and the Jezebel of these last days be a union of church and state combined to enforce the worship of Baal in defiance of the God of Heaven.

Admitting that type would meet antitype in the last days, the Lord declares that the symbolic name of the people who will fight the beast and his image will be the Elijah people, and that, just as the original Elijah was translated without seeing death, so those who are the Elijah people of these last days will pass from this earth to Heaven without seeing death.

sky

[skyblue888]

Just so, as the Elijah of that day experienced a day of power and triumph in the battle with Ahab and Jezabel, so too the Elijah the people of this day will experience a day of power and triumph as they battle the Ahab and Jezebel of these last days. At the end of that day for him, came the anti-climax with the ceasing of the flowing of the power of God through him at the very time when his physical energies were exhausted. So too will it be for the faithful in this last struggle. Then it was at that point of time when the threat of death would and did have the greatest possible impact, that that woman Jezebel issued her decree.

So too there will come the ending of the day of power for the people of God as the Holy Spirit ceases to flow through them, and with that will come the experience of anti-climax and depletion.

It will be at that moment that the Jezebel of these last days filled with wrath beyond description, will level against them the decree of death. Coming at that moment, it will have an impact which it could not otherwise have had and, like Elijah they shall long to flee away from it all. Thus it is that we read in the paragraph we are considering, "Yet when the storm of opposition and reproach bursts upon them, some overwhelmed with consternation will be ready to exclaim,'Had we foreseen the consequences of our words, we would have held our peace.'"

to be continued

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, can you tell me who this ONE Elijah type person is right now--today? Do you believe it is the same ONE person as found in Matthew 24:45?

And who WAS the Jezebel woman who's teachings are now causing would be bondservants to become deceived as found in Rev. 2:18-25? Please notice that at the time this prophecy is understood the woman here who is called a prophet, is dead and only her teachings are leading those now living, astray?

Notice that if these people do not repent that they will go through the time of trouble and have the plagues affect them? This means that this warning is ONLY for those now living in the last generation from the Adventist Church. Please pray for the correct understanding on all of this.

[skyblue888]

"When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result." G.C.445.

Here we have the Jezabel and the Ahab of these last days.

There is the Elijah the individual and there is the Elijah the people. Mrs. White was the Elijah the individual just as John the Baptist was in the days of Christ. The disciples became the Elijah the people at Pentecost. Those who shall give the Loud cry to the church and to the world will be the Elijah the people.

And there will come the time when these churches will give their power and authority to the papacy and the papacy will regain her former glory and again have the support of the secular governments.

"The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility. All that she has done in her persecution of those who reject her dogmas she holds to be right; and would she not repeat the same acts, should the opportunity be presented? Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed and Rome be reinstated in her former power, and there would be a revival of her tyranny and persecution." G.C.564.

sky

[skyblue888]

Just so, as the Elijah of that day experienced a day of power and triumph in the battle with Ahab and Jezabel, so too the Elijah the people of this day will experience a day of power and triumph as they battle the Ahab and Jezebel of these last days. At the end of that day for him, came the anti-climax with the ceasing of the flowing of the power of God through him at the very time when his physical energies were exhausted. So too will it be for the faithful in this last struggle. Then it was at that point of time when the threat of death would and did have the greatest possible impact, that that woman Jezebel issued her decree.

So too there will come the ending of the day of power for the people of God as the Holy Spirit ceases to flow through them, and with that will come the experience of anti-climax and depletion.

It will be at that moment that the Jezebel of these last days filled with wrath beyond description, will level against them the decree of death. Coming at that moment, it will have an impact which it could not otherwise have had and, like Elijah they shall long to flee away from it all. Thus it is that we read in the paragraph we are considering, "Yet when the storm of opposition and reproach bursts upon them, some overwhelmed with consternation will be ready to exclaim,'Had we foreseen the consequences of our words, we would have held our peace.'"

to be continued

We are beginning to see that it is not just the death decree but the setting in which it is suddenly thrust upon the people of God as it was upon Elijah of old, which makes the death decree far more of a test for them than it was for the martyrs of old. And, if that is all that there will be to it, it would be bad enough, but there is more yet.

The key to the understanding of the more yet, is found in this same paragraph we read, "The work which they have undertaken seems far beyond their ability to accomplish."

At first glance this would appear to be a contradiction to the other information in the same paragraph which indicates that at this time the Loud Cry has ended and the work is finished. The moment however, in which we remember that the people of God are not going to know when the work is actually finished, the contradiction disappears.

While it is true that in the case of some, the rejection of the message will be so clear and definite that there remains no question as to where they stand, yet in the cases of many others it is not possible for the finite mind to determine as to whether for them the work is done.

Let us not forget too that Satan, ever at work to deceive, will make it appear that many on his side are truly converted, appearing as if they need only the special truths for this time to make them ready for eternity. To us in that day, it will truly seem that the great work is but just begun when in fact it has already come to its end.

God will know it is finished. The angels will know it is finished but it will not be given to the saints of God to know this. Now the fact the work seems far from finished while at the same time the power of the latter rain has dried up, will suggest to them that the Loud Cry has failed of doing its work.

This will be the fearful witness of sight and circumstances in that hour, a witness which the devil has always sought to exploit to the uttermost, as he did at the Red Sea crossing for the children of Israel, and for Christ on the mount of Temptation. So it will be in this last closing conflict. It was by faith, by standing upon the word of God and refusing to believe the all too convincing and very present witness of sight and circumstances that the Saviour overcame on the mount with Satan and it will be by faith and by faith alone that the righteous will conquer in the closing scenes of the great final struggle of the ages.

The true child of God will know as he enters upon the closing conflict that the Loud Cry is a do or die affair. Like queen Esther, who is also a type of the people who face the great final test, we shall go into this conflict with the words, "If we perish, we perish." The possibility of it was not inviting for her, and the same will be true for us in the end. Enter upon this conflict we must with all of its terrible possibilities, but if we should fail there never will be another opportunity either for us or for any other generation of mankind.

to be continued

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, what is your own opinion, not opinions from people who are now long dead and could NOT have known the real truth? Is it your intent to just keep downloading the fictional words of EGW in an attempt to keep people from knowing the real truth of the matter? Just wondering.....

[phkrause]

Sky, what is your own opinion, not opinions from people who are now long dead and could NOT have known the real truth? Is it your intent to just keep downloading the fictional words of EGW in an attempt to keep people from knowing the real truth of the matter? Just wondering.....

Wow Dr Rich! You ask him to tell you what he thinks and he does and you diss him?

[skyblue888]

Dr. Rich, opinions are what always get in the way of the Lord.

"The prejudices and opinions that prevailed at Minneapolis are not dead by any means." T.M.467.

[skyblue888]

We have the Word of God that it will not fail, for has He not said, "For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness, because a short work will the Lord make in the earth." Rom.9:28.

But against that Word is the awful witness of sight and circumstances, the most formidable of which is the memory that never in history has Satan failed to bring to an early end every great revival and reformation which the Lord has instituted.

Never has this been because of any failure on the part of the Lord, but ever and always because of the unwillingness of the children of God to go all the way and finish the work so well begun. Always they have come short of the noble work, which coming short has given to the devil the opportunity he seeks, to turn the tide and kill the revival. Had the will of the Lord been fulfilled, then the work would have been finished long ere this and the people of God would now be in the Kingdom. Instead we are still here in this world of sin and sorrow.

When Israel entered the land of Canaan long ago, it was the plan of God that they should be a righteous people who would develop and spread until the whole world was filled with the presence of the Lord and the devil driven out. They began so well, but they left little pockets of evil here and there which grew in power until they were driven out instead. Judges 1:27-36.

In David's time, another day of opportunity was given them, Hebrews 4:7, but again they failed the Lord. Again the devil succeeded in bringing the good work to none effect. In Daniel 9:24-27, the Lord appointed them 490 years in which to "finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy (Jesus)."

The making of an end of sins can only be accomplished when on the one hand it has been forever brought to its end in the lives of the people of God, and, on the other, when all sin and sinners have been destroyed. When such a work is done then the defeat of the devil is final and absolute and the kingdom of God is forever established. That it was God's plan that this should be accomplished for and through Israel within the compass of those 490 years is clear from the text before us, and that the devil succeeded in preventing that which the Lord had planned is equally clear from the testimony of history.

to be continued

[Dr. Rich]

pk and sky, I'm sorry, I wrote that before I read your own opinion. Thanks man, didn't man, didn't mean to 'diss' you. But I was still wondering who you think the one Elijah type is right now.

[skyblue888]

What I said about Elijah is not my opinion. I have quotes for what I have stated. I will post them as soon as I can.

sky

[skyblue888]

It is important that we make a distinction between Elijah as a person and Elijah as a people. Let us turn to 1 S.M.412, where it says:

"The Jews tried to stop the proclamation of the message that had been predicted in the Word of God; but prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says, 'Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord' (Mal.4:5)." Then Mrs. White says, "Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say, 'You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message.'" And then she adds these words, "I shall tell the truth as God gives it to me, and I say now, If you continue to find fault, to have a spirit of variance, you will never know the truth."

This statement may also be found Testimonies to Ministers,475. It is plain and clear that these words predict an individual. It says, "Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah."

Then there are a number of statements in the Spirit of Prophecy which speak of an Elijah people. Let us turn to Early Writings, p.155, where Mrs. White makes this point quite plain:

"John came in the spirit and power of Elijah to proclaim the first advent of Jesus. I was pointed down to the last days and saw that John represented THOSE who should go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah to herald the day of wrath and the second advent of Jesus."

Does this prophecy point to an individual or to a people? To a people.

In the book Desire of Ages, p.101, we find that the same statement is made in slightly different terms, and this is worth our consideration here at this time:

"As a prophet, John was 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the Just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.' In preparing the way for Christ's first advent, he was a representative of THOSE who are to prepare a people for our Lord's coming."

So once again, we find here a prophecy of an Elijah people.

sky

[skyblue888]

We have the Word of God that it will not fail, for has He not said, "For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness, because a short work will the Lord make in the earth." Rom.9:28.

But against that Word is the awful witness of sight and circumstances, the most formidable of which is the memory that never in history has Satan failed to bring to an early end every great revival and reformation which the Lord has instituted.

Never has this been because of any failure on the part of the Lord, but ever and always because of the unwillingness of the children of God to go all the way and finish the work so well begun. Always they have come short of the noble work, which coming short has given to the devil the opportunity he seeks, to turn the tide and kill the revival. Had the will of the Lord been fulfilled, then the work would have been finished long ere this and the people of God would now be in the Kingdom. Instead we are still here in this world of sin and sorrow.

When Israel entered the land of Canaan long ago, it was the plan of God that they should be a righteous people who would develop and spread until the whole world was filled with the presence of the Lord and the devil driven out. They began so well, but they left little pockets of evil here and there which grew in power until they were driven out instead. Judges 1:27-36.

In David's time, another day of opportunity was given them, Hebrews 4:7, but again they failed the Lord. Again the devil succeeded in bringing the good work to none effect. In Daniel 9:24-27, the Lord appointed them 490 years in which to "finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy (Jesus)."

The making of an end of sins can only be accomplished when on the one hand it has been forever brought to its end in the lives of the people of God, and, on the other, when all sin and sinners have been destroyed. When such a work is done then the defeat of the devil is final and absolute and the kingdom of God is forever established. That it was God's plan that this should be accomplished for and through Israel within the compass of those 490 years is clear from the text before us, and that the devil succeeded in preventing that which the Lord had planned is equally clear from the testimony of history.

to be continued

Then came the apostolic church. If ever there was a church invested with the power to finish the work it was that one. Led by men who had personally walked and talked with the Saviour and who had witnessed His life and sacrifice, bound together by the cords of a wonderful and heavenly love, filled with the Spirit and mighty on the Scriptures, they seemed filled with the certainty of carrying the work through to its completion.

Neither were they unaware of the peril of failure for Paul reminded them of the generations which had gone before in which the day of opportunity had passed and then called upon them in this earnest entreaty, "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering His rest, any of us should seem to have come short of it." Heb.4:1.

Come short of it they did, so that once more the work of God failed and the devil triumphed.

But never could the devil wholly triumph although the slender thread of truth became so fine at times as to seem to disappear altogether. But, living and unquenchable, it rose again strong and vigorous to make another effort to finish the work. Came in 1844 another effort and the now familiar pattern of failure and defeat for the forces of the Lord.

We are familiar with the many statements which state that if the people of God had been faithful, then long ere this the work would have been finished and they would have as surely been in the kingdom but it was not so. See Evangelism,695-6; The Great Controversy,457-8; Desire of Ages,633-4.

Then, in 1888, came another day of opportunity of entering into the promised land in the mighty message of the offer of the righteousness of Christ by the faith that lays right hold upon His all-sufficient merits.

Once again the stage was set for the speedy finishing of the work and once again "Satan succeeded in shutting away from our people in a great measure the special power of the Holy Spirit that God longed to impart to them. The enemy prevented them from obtaining that efficiency which might have been theirs in carrying the truth to the world, as the apostles proclaimed it after the day of Pentecost." Selected Messages, Vol.1,234-5.

So it will be that the enemy of souls will enter the final conflict with a record of unbroken though not complete success behind him. This will give him the courage to hope he can do it again, and the confidence to believe he can do it again, so thouroughly and successfully this time that he might succeed where he has always failed before, in wiping the truth of God off the earth, "If he could blot them from the earth his triumph would be complete," G.C.618, he would gain that which has always so narrowly eluded him.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

And so it will be that, at the end of the loud cry period, every witness of sight and circumstances will loudly declare that Satan has done it again. Satan will exult in this and will press the picture upon the people of God in its hardest possible lines so as to break their faith in the promises of God and thus effect their certain defeat.

He will point to the fact that the Spirit is no longer flowing through them, declaring that this is certain evidence that God has forsaken them. He will tell them that the work is anything but finished and will argue that the Spirit has left them because they have grieved away His presence. He will point to the vast numbers on his side, he will display his power in miracles, and the wonders of apparent conversions; he will declare that they are not even Christians for by their wanton subbornness they are causing the whole world to lie under the heavy hand of calamity and destruction.

He will point to the large numbers who have just abandoned them and become their worst accusers. He will play up the picture of their past and will declare that they are nothing but abject and absolute failures. His arguments will appear neither foolish nor weightless, for every witness of sight and circumstances will loudly declare that he is telling the truth and nothing but the truth.

Never could a situation appear more desperate, nor their effort to preserve the truth more futile. Ponder the picture of it. Try to gain some concept of what it will be like, for no words and no imagination can truly picture the fearful nature of that test and that experience. None will ever know the full truth of it until they have experienced it.

And it will be in that setting and at that time that the death decree will be decreed against them as it was upon Elijah. Then Satan will press the final argument as death stares them in the face. "What is to be gained by dying?" he will argue. "The martyrs of old died as conquerors for they knew their blood would be seed to raise many more for the truth, but this is the hour of ultimate defeat for the truth of God. All is lost and nothing is to be won by your death."

In its hardest possible features, and most desperate lines will the devil press the situation on the faithful in that day.

Thus by no means the death decree alone but the death decree in the setting of all of this, is as it can only be, the great final test, which all must have before they can, while living, receive the final seal of the living God. Needless to say, only those will survive who have learned to live by faith and faith alone.

Thus the evil one and the righteous become locked in the last desperate struggle for supremacy; the ranks of the God's people are finally purified and they come to the judgment of the living when their sins are blotted out and they receive the seal of the living God.

to be continued