Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quote: As I said, the problem is not with Christ...it is with your [my] impotent surrender! So why not get a potent surrender? If you continue to believe that you can not surrender you will never even try. What does it cost to surrender? Your life. The question we must answer is, are we willing to give our lives? 2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. excellency of the power? what is that? The character of God revealed in human flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quote: Norman said: So why not get a potent surrender? If you continue to believe that you can not surrender you will never even try. Then do it Norman (seeing you are the expert)....Just do it! Surrender like Christ so you can live His life! BTW...you have nasty habit [besetting sin] of twisting what I say. I didn't say we never surrender...I said apparently our surrender isn't perfect. Norm, you’re hung up on works! You’re in a subtle form of legalism. You need eye salve! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 "Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in God's eyes, careful to obey all of the Lord's commandments and regulations." Lk 1:6 NLT. "Now there was a man named Simeon who lived in Jerusalem. He was a righteous man and very devout.. He was filled with the Holy Spirit..." Lk 2:25 NLT. "And you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people FROM their sins." Mt 1:21 NLT "All praise to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us." Rev 1:5 NLT Can your Jesus to that Robert? Set me free from sin so that I can become a law-abiding citizen of His kingdom like Zechariah & Elizabeth? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 Do you believe you can serve two masters and be saved? i.e. serving sin while serving God and be saved? What does repentance & conversion mean to you? Are you really repentant [changed your mind about sin] & converted [changed direction 180 degrees] while doing the same sinful things and still headed in the same direction? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hypocrite, Gk hupokrites - an actor, a stage player, a dissembler, a pretender. Let's see. Who is the pretender, the thief who claims he's been saved from the sin of stealing and stops stealing? Or the thief who claims he's been saved from the sin of stealing but continues stealing? Who is the stage player, the evildoer who claims to have been saved by Almighty God from his evildoing and stops doing evil deeds? Or the one who claims to have been saved by an Almighty God but keeps on doing his evil deeds? Who is just an actor, the one who says he believes in a God of love and does loving things? Or the one who says he believes in a God love but does unloving things? Who is the dissembler, the one who declares God to be his Lord and does what his master commands? Or is it the one who claims the lordship of God but obeys the commands of Satan? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Clio said: Robert's false teachings regarding an impotent Jesus, powerless to change the life of the believer here on earth is falsehood of the highest order....I have the eyesalve, the fine gold of His faith, and He changes my life and my character as He sees fit. I fully charge you with blasphemy! You inject sinful, human traits onto my loving God who neither forces nor coerces His will on His creatures. God can do nothing without our COMPLETE consent moment by moment....He will never force you to do anything. The fault is not with God in "falling short" of His love, rathr the fault lies with our human weakness, i.e., the human element! The work of the Holy Spirit is not in addition to what Christ did 2000 years ago....Only as you are fully resting in His doing & dying can you begin to experience a true change, but as both the Bible and EGW state, we will never be perfect this side of eternity....Clearly you need eyesalve! In comparison with His love, we are wretched! Rob [:"blue"]The work of the Holy Spirit is a continuation of the process began at the Cross. It is the Holy Spirit that makes effectual what Jesus did at the Cross. Look at the Sanctuary services. Faith in the sacrificial Lamb at the altar gets you into the court. Is that sufficient? In the journey of approaching God, the next step is to go to the laver and wash. The water cleansing representing the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit from sin. Then as you get closer to God & enter the holy place, the believer needs to eat the bread of the presence. The Bread being God's word. It also eating the flesh of Jesus, without which the believer has no life. Then the believer needs the light of the 7 candlesticks. Jesus being the light of the world, and the Holy Spirit helping illuminate the Word. But that is not enough. One also sends incense to God, the prayers, the good works made fragrant by the merits of Christ. Finally, the believer comes into the holiest, into the very presence of God, under whose throne are the 10 commandments. The gov't of God is firmly established on law, the very thing you vehemently claim that it is legalism to obey it. Professing faith in Christ is but the beginning of journey, not the end of the journey. Peter says, ADD to this faith, virtue, to virtue knowledge, etc. etc. The Christian life is a process of addition & multiplication, not the stagnation of living in the same rut of yielding to besetting sins over & over & over again & again & again. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quote: Quote: When Jesus learned the trade of carpentry, was He being selfish? Verse please! Yes...He probably helped his dad, but Jesus wasn't out for the money and the nice things that go with learning a skill. Why? Self-seeking is sin! [:"blue"]Do you think Jesus worked for free? Is it self-seeking to charge a fee for one's work? [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 25, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Clio said: Robert's false teachings regarding an impotent Jesus, powerless to change the life of the believer here on earth is falsehood of the highest order. As I said, the problem is not with Christ...it is with your [my] impotent surrender! -PC- ST -PT- The Signs of the Times -DT- 06-09-81 -AT- Idolatry Punished -PR- 21 Our earthly life, however long, honored, or useful it may be, is but childhood, frail, imperfect, and undeveloped. Manhood, with its full, perfect, glorious development, will come, when, freed from the taint of sin, we stand among the redeemed throng. Then we shall enjoy a life which measures with the life of God, and through everlasting ages we shall go on increasing in wisdom and knowledge. Until you are freed of indwelling sin, you will be imperfect...undeveloped...frail. Or as Paul says, "wretched"! Onxe you are freed from "the taint of sin" only then will your life measure with the life of God! You will be perfect in love even as He is perfect.... [:"blue"]Are only waiting for the by & by to overcome sin and start the process of development, Robert? That will never happen because heaven begins here & now, not in the by & by. "As through Jesus we enter into rest, heaven begins here.We respond to His invitation, Come, learn of Me, and in thus coming, we begin the life eternal. Heaven is a ceasless approaching to God through Christ. The longer we are in the heaven of bliss, the more and still more glory will be opened to us; and the more we know God, the more intense our happiness." FLB chapter 12. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi Rob, Quote: Then do it Norman (seeing you are the expert)....Just do it! Surrender like Christ so you can live His life! Now you're talking, I will by the grace of God. Quote: BTW...you have nasty habit [besetting sin] of twisting what I say. I didn't say we never surrender...I said apparently our surrender isn't perfect. Rob, a half surrender is no surrender, either you're for Christ 100% or you're not for Him at all. Half surrender is a Laodicean, unconverted ,blind, faithless, powerless and wretched religion. Rob you have accused me several times of legalism but you still don't answer the posts that prompt the accusation. Your theory is bankrupt and powerless and leaves the believers of it bitter, not wanting to be with believers and twisting truth to prove falsehoods. Those who believe that theory will eventually reject all SOP and parts of the NT, along with the OT. That is my prediction and I say it to awaken you to the dangers of this theory. Also that when you see it happen you will know that it is false. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: We are justified by Christ and we witness or live the law (written in our hearts) by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which establishes it and we reveal that we have a new master and that we have accepted the gift of salvation. Why do you blatantly misrepresent the scriptures? I hate this about legalists! If you take the verse to mean that you establish the law then you must do it within the context of Romans 3:31 Noman, don't give me that line of dung....You aren't establishing the law! You're a sinner! Proof? Self-seeking....Stop that and I might believe you! Cut the baloney! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: "And you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people FROM their sins." Mt 1:21 NLT And Jesus did in Himself.... If you mean this to mean we are perfect as God is perfect, then you are deceived! And you do mean that, so you are deceived! I am posting to a blind man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Either you are an ignorant legalist and therefore God overlooks your hypocrisy or you know better, but because of pride you persist in perpetuating your perverted gospel. If the latter you shall surely not see the gates of heaven! Not kidding, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Quote: Quote: When Jesus learned the trade of carpentry, was He being selfish? Verse please! Yes...He probably helped his dad, but Jesus wasn't out for the money and the nice things that go with learning a skill. Why? Self-seeking is sin! [:"blue"]Do you think Jesus worked for free? Is it self-seeking to charge a fee for one's work? [/] Gerry In this world if a man doesn't work He doesn't eat....Christ wasn't a burden to anyone, yet He lived not for himself....You do, hence you are a sinner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: That is my prediction And here's my prediction for you (and I am very, very serious)....Unless you repent of your smug, self-righteous attitude, you, like Gerry, will never see the gates of heaven! If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us [1 John 1:8] "Not to see THE MARKED difference between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not ABHOR himself cannot understand the meaning of redemption." [RH 25-09-1900] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Finally, the believer comes into the holiest, into the very presence of God, under whose throne are the 10 commandments. The gov't of God is firmly established on law.... You try and go that route, Gerry....You'll never, never make it! On the other hand I'll go the faith route....Here it is: Heb 10:19 Since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place [by our "additions"]....No? No, but rather by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his flesh... I go right to the Father "in Jesus Christ"! He is the curtain...And I can BOLDLY come in the presence of the law "in Jesus Christ"! Why? IN HIM I AM PERFECT! Gerry...you are a legalist! You are why many are walking...no running from the Adventist Church....They see your unlikeness to Christ, while in your deception you tell them how Christ like you are....What a legalist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: Half surrender is a Laodicean, unconverted ,blind, faithless, powerless and wretched religion. Where does Rev 3:17-19 speak of "surrender"? It doesn't! What you are doing is misrepresenting the scriptures....That's called twisting...manipulating...i.e., works of the flesh! Here's the context: ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,”.... Where does this expression come from? Probably from the Jewish idea that a "rich man is a good man, blessed of God because of His law-obedience!" Remember the rich young ruler? What was his smug reply when Christ named off the commandments? "All these I have kept...what lack I?" What is Christ's reply? "and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked...." What was that? "You do not know"! Why don't they know? Ah, because they are deceived! "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves...." [1 John 1:8] Only a man deceived by his own so-called goodness would say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” Verse 18: I [Christ] advise you [those deceived by their own ignorance] to buy from Me gold refined by fire [faith], that you may become rich [the reward? heaven], and white garments [the robes of Christ's righteousness], that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness [your sinfulness] may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. Ellen White: "The True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception ["you do not know"]. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition, the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the starling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty and wretchedness." [TM, 3:252, 253] What is God's solution? 19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent. Repent of what? Legalism and self-righteousness! That's the context, Norman!!! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Rob, Quote: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Norman said: We are justified by Christ and we witness or live the law (written in our hearts) by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which establishes it and we reveal that we have a new master and that we have accepted the gift of salvation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why do you blatantly misrepresent the scriptures? I hate this about legalists! I posted the Greek translation of the word "establish" taken from Romans 3:31. You can scroll up and read it and you'll see that what I said is in context. What you have a problem with is the fact that what I said doesn't agree with your theory. Quote: I hate this about legalists!... Noman, don't give me that line of dung....You aren't establishing the law! You're a sinner! Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. You can call me what you want and judge me as a sinner, but I read the Bible for the truth and the Bible calls me a child of God and a saint saved by grace through faith. Your interpretation of scripture is not right and the name calling is not of God, stop it, it's not neccessary. You may call yourself those names if you wish but I choose not to call you or myself any of those names. What I did was to warn you as to what will happen and if it doesn't then you can tell me I'm worng, but when it does, you will know that your theory is not right. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Rob, Quote: Where does Rev 3:17-19 speak of "surrender"? It doesn't! What you are doing is misrepresenting the scriptures....That's called twisting...manipulating...i.e., works of the flesh! Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. These are human works that are done by the will of man. Jesus is asking us to surrender all or leave. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Likewise here we are being told the same thing, make a complete surrender. He's certainly not asking us to change our behavior that would be legalism. He's asking us to change our thinking. "Stop this lifeless spiritless living and let me give you the faith, my righteousness and the Holy Spirit so you can see. The result of taking Jesus counsel? Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. That is what we do when we take Christ's counsel, but you say we can't do that, how can you not see this? Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Who is persecuting whom? Again you misquote the context! Now let's look at the context of your quote: Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? Please note that the Galatians wanted to be "under law"! Paul is speaking of not only the moral law, but the Torah.... 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. You see Abraham tried to help God produce the son of promise through Hagar....In a minute you'll see this represents works! But after he learned better and Abraham took God at His word, God gave Abraham a son through his barren wife Sarah. Hence "the child of promise"! Verse 24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Remember Abraham and Hagar tried to help produce the child of promise....Instead they made a mess that's with us to this very day! In other words Abraham's act with Hagar was an act of unbelief or legalism! Now the conclusion: Verse 28 You brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. How so? Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [of heaven] is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way [by Abraham's works] persecuted the son born by the power of the God. It is the same now. Note that Hagar's son, Ishmael, [which represents those according to "work of the law" - the old covenant] persecuted those who were of faith in the promises of God: Again, "For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise." verse 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son [the legalists], for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman [Hagar or the old covenant], but of the free woman. 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free [from under law]. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of bondage. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.[:"red"]4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: Quote: Where does Rev 3:17-19 speak of "surrender"? It doesn't! What you are doing is misrepresenting the scriptures....That's called twisting...manipulating...i.e., works of the flesh! Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Jesus is asking us to surrender all or leave. What Jesus is saying is that He would rather have someone deep in sin [cold works] then to have someone in the robe's of their own self-righteousness! At least He can reach those living for the flesh, but those who are proud He cannot reach... The fruit shows what gospel we cling to....Hot work are works of faith as one fully rest in Christ's robe of righteousness... Cold works are works of the flesh...but luke warm works are those done by the legalists by demanding that God’s law be fully kept by the indwelling Spirit....Jesus wants those who teach this perversion to repent! Their self-righteousness sickens Him....Hence He is about to throw up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: how can you not see this? I guess I'll just post this again and again and again until YOU SEE the truth: Turn to Romans 3:21-24: But now a righteousness from God, apart from law [our law keeping], has been made known, to which the book of the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Why a righteousness apart from our law performance? There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned [past tense] [:"Red"] and fall short[/] of the glory of God, 24 and are being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. "And fall short" is in the present continuous tense.... Come on you guys be honest with the grammar! What is "the glory of God"? Ex 33:18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you...." Clearly "God's glory" is His "goodness" - His righteousness! Now Ellen White: "It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; [:"Red"]that the love which "seeketh not her own"[/] has its source in the heart of God; and that in the meek and lowly One is manifested the character of Him who dwelleth in the light which no man can approach unto." [DA 19] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Rob here's what it boils down to. Before we come to Christ, I am a wretched sinner and you are a wretched sinner. The difference we have is that you believe that we will always remain so and when Christ comes to get us He will take those who accept the Gospel they may have a little change. I believe that when we come to Christ and surrender fully He will change us into His likeness here before He returns to get those who love Him, keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling (short) , and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, Note that Jude is talking not to us today; not to a future church, but to those in his day who were surrendered and guided by the Holy Spirit. That is the fruit of the Gospel. How are you going to get past Jude 1:24? Change what it means , or are you going to ignore it? You have to get rid of that in order to hold to your theory Rob All of nature reveals this fact. A seed is planted, it dies and then it becomes a new creation. The fact that it became a new creation reveals that fact that the seed died. 1Co 15:36 thou fool; that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: Then it reveals the kind of plant that it is by what it produces. If it produces nothing, it is of no value and eventually rooted up and tossed in the compost pile. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Notice it does not say sin shall put on holiness? Even though the context is about inheriting new immortal bodies Paul would have said something about it. but he never does because holiness is something that we get here before Jesus returns. Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. 1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Rob just because you don't see this in people it doesn't mean it's not happening. Maybe your idea of holiness is off and as a result you are saying that it is not possible for us to be anything but falling short. Why don't we do it? Because we don't believe the love that God has for us and we are not surrendered fully to Him. What does my loving surrender to Christ have to do with adding to my salvation? It doesn't but it reveals the work of the Holy Spirit in me and witnesses to the world, by my love for you and others and God that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Who is persecuting whom? Again you misquote the context! Now let's look at the context of your quote: By what you have written you're persecuting Rob, not me. Stop doing that, it's not good for anything. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: Norman said: Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling (short) , and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy Keep you from falling from grace, Norman....You are faultless before His throne "IN HIM!" You twist everything into works....Poor man...no peace, no assurance...work, work, work....and then I might make it if I am good enough! Col 1:22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him [God] holy and blameless and beyond reproach [where? "in His fleshly body"]— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith! Again Norman, "Not to see THE MARKED difference between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not ABHOR himself cannot understand the meaning of redemption." [RH 25-09-1900] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Quote: But now a righteousness (justification - look it up) from God, apart from law [our law keeping] (to attepmt to be justified by the law), has been made known, to which the book of the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. This is talking about how we are justified; we are not justified by a deliberate attempt to keep the law, but by faith. He is not saying that we will no longer need the law and that it is now void. All of us who love God will keep the commandments of God as fruit Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he (God) might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Here we have God being just becuase he justifies us by faith, Quote: "And fall short" is in the present continuous tense.... Come on you guys be honest with the grammar! (YLT) for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God-- (Murdock) for they have all sinned, and failed of the glory of God. (LITV) for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (GNT-TR) ðáíôåò ãáñ çìáñôïí êáé õóôåñïõíôáé ôçò äïîçò ôïõ èåïõ (CEV) All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. There are a number of translations that agree with the Youngs literal translation. I can't accept your definition that it is a continuous tense. It fits what you believe but I don't believe it's not an accurate translation. Quote: Clearly "God's glory" is His "goodness" - His righteousness! His character is His glory, righteousness is a part of His character. Good night, Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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