Moderators lazarus Posted February 17, 2013 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. You could just as easily say that about the left or the center or any other group with beliefs that differ from others. Just change the "Argues for -insert personal beliefs and values here-". Quote Remember Adventists Online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Shouldn't this have been put into the humor section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. Liberals "pronouncing destruction" over Bible-believing conservative views is not some "new feature" in history. What part of this is supposed to be surprising? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 "The New Right" in the Adventist church? Indeed such fictions are hardly credible. It is kind of the way that LSU affiliates in 2010 were arguing that only some tiny group in the SDA church actually believed the Bible account of Creation week - only to find out at the 2010 GC session in Atlanta that it is the vast majority of the SDA church that remains in the Bible believing camp when it comes to Creation week! Yet these liberal islands simply "imagine to themselves" that all the rest of the SDA denomination has rejected every bit as much of the Word of God as they have and then comfort themselves with "Stories" about how 'they' are in the majority. That 2010 vote has to have been a huge "wake up call" to many an self-mystified lib. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Does your use of 'liberal' mean their concerns are not meaningful or just that they disagree with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 17, 2013 Members Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. Well Lazarus not sure about a "new right" within the SDA church, but you do have some interesting thoughts about difference's of opinions within the SDA church, where there seems to be very little tollerence(sp) of each other. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 18, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2013 Liberals "pronouncing destruction" over Bible-believing conservative views is not some "new feature" in history. Are we demonizing? :) Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 18, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2013 Quote: What "values" are you referring to specifically I don't mean abortion, marriage etc. I mean hymns only, long dresses only, no jewelry, no drums, EGW on a par with the Bible, vegetarianism as a test of fellowship. etc. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Quoting you, Laz, would not allow this to post, so I took out your quoted words. Well, Laz, I fit the description of a rock-solid Adventist...yet I see a lot of straw men arguments here, Laz. Hymns only...with reference to what other activity? Preaching the eternal Gospel? Long dresses only? I presume you are speaking to the US Adventist women here. There are some parts of the world where men customarily wear "long dresses" (actually, skirts) per their culture... No jewelry? Again, I presume you are speaking the US audience again. In other countries around the world, the jewelry issue revolves around marriage and dowry cultural issues... No drums? Please...a little EGW context there. EGW was speaking to a specific usage of the drum. EGW on par with the Bible? EGW herself tells us never to do that to her works, so that cannot be a truthful "Tea Party Adventist" position. Vegetarianism a test of fellowship? Why stop there? Isn't vegan a better "test" from those who wish to part from animal products? Each of these points you have listed are designed to set up a certain image of undesirability you apparently wish to portray of those you disagree with, and associating the term, "Tea Party" with that image. My thoughts on that tactic will conclude this post... The "Tea Party" label, in truth, has more to do with getting back to principles, not letters of law. A "Tea Party Adventist" would be one who would champion the principles of true repentance and walking by faith, not a knee jerk setting up of "Fortress Adventist" against what is perceived to be "the world". A "Tea Party Adventist" would... ...champion music which is spiritually uplifting, whether a hymn or other composition, which adds to the spiritual worship of God, for a "Tea Party Adventist" certainly knows even the hymns can be sung in selfish ways that detract from spirituality and worship. ...champions tasteful dress which does not detract from the wearer to reach others for the Gospel, whether by allure (revealing dress) or by out of culture (1800's fashions in today's age), for the "Tea Party Adventist" knows even "long dresses" can be tailored in such a way as to be very revealing. ...champions a proper view of jewelry in the Scriptures, for the "Tea Party Adventist" knows 1) Scripture portrays the Bride in the Old Testament as being the recipient of dowry jewelry, and is to wear it without shame, and 2) the determination of whether jewelry comes off is in the province of God, not our fellowship rules. ...champions and countenances the use of all musical instruments to God's glory, for the "Tea Party Adventist" knows even those instruments deemed "safe" - like pianos, flutes and harps - can also be played in the same abusive style as the drum. ...champions the use of EGW according to the directives she herself laid down in the Testimonies, for the "Tea Party Adventist" knows she wrote we are to use the Bible, first and foremost, and consider the SOP/Testimonies as not equal to God's Word, but pointing to it. ...champions a healthy lifestyle, knowing there are vegetarians who have a poorer diet/lifestyle than even the unclean meat eaters, for the "Tea Party Adventist" knows that beyond the Biblical guidelines for food, vegetarianism is in the province of God's conviction, and there is no Biblical test of fellowship featuring vegetarianism. When people use the "Tea Party" tag to label people as "extreme Taliban", they are being quite disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. The "label" is a distortion of what the "Tea Party is all about in politics. In the case of 'Tea Party Adventist", it is taking the politics of this world and thrusting them unto the people of God in a fear-mongering way, distorting what this "new right" is within our church. We are not to bear false witness against others; efforts to label like this are indeed bearing false witness against brothers and sisters. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I have been active in the church for almost 40 years. In my experience, a very active religious left and religious right has always existed in the church. In some ways, the religious right held far more sway 20 years ago than they now hold. I have been part of both movements. Many people consider me a liberal (maybe even an infidel). I consider myself to be a moderate SDA. I have liberal leanings; but I respect the views of the right (until they start personal attacks). No one should personally attack any one on either side of the fence. We should all respect one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I don't think we should take political positions as Seventh-day Adventists. I believe we can take such positions as citizens of our respective countries but God has not called the church to a political mission. The only issue we, as a church, need to be active on is religious liberty. As a citizen, I desire to see certain laws passed and other laws repealed but that has nothing to do with my religious faith. I think it is wrong for a pastor, or anyone else, to preach politics from the pulpit. Like Noah was called to preach repentance and warn of the coming world destruction, so are we called likewise. As a church we need not be weighed down by temporal issues dealt with by the world's politicians. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 19, 2013 Moderators Share Posted February 19, 2013 Shane, I agree. The Church should be open to all and all should feel welcome. When the Church begins to advocate specific political issues it becomes less friendly to those who do not agree with the position taken. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live4Him Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. Quote Thy word is a lamp to my feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 19, 2013 Members Share Posted February 19, 2013 Shane, I agree. The Church should be open to all and all should feel welcome. When the Church begins to advocate specific political issues it becomes less friendly to those who do not agree with the position taken. I'm in agreement Gregory, and also with Shane and JoeMo's posts. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 When people use the "Tea Party" tag to label people as "extreme Taliban", they are being quite disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. The "label" is a distortion of what the "Tea Party is all about in politics. In the case of 'Tea Party Adventist", it is taking the politics of this world and thrusting them unto the people of God in a fear-mongering way, distorting what this "new right" is within our church. We are not to bear false witness against others; efforts to label like this are indeed bearing false witness against brothers and sisters. Blessings, Amen brother! You tell it like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Yeah Ted, but it's not the first time somebody from the old/new? left was disingenuous and intellectually dishonest, or tried to float a completely false premise. They seem to live by the false premise, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 4, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2013 So.......I wonder why many right wing SDA"s are also tea party supporters? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 So.......I wonder why many right wing SDA"s are also tea party supporters? Why did most of the liberal SDAs vote for Obama? I am sorry but the question you asked was completely off the wall. What I would like to know is why you dislike conservatives so much and seem to go out of your way to disparage them? Maybe you need to ask for help from God about that problem of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 4, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2013 I am sorry but the question you asked was completely off the wall. I'm not sure its off the wall. It's on topic. You seem to be quite moderate when it comes to church stuff but if I recall you are a tea party supporter. You are perhaps the exception. Many SDA's I see that post here who are right wing are also fervent supporters of the Tea party. That is not meant to be an insult It's just what I observe. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman I am sorry but the question you asked was completely off the wall. I'm not sure its off the wall. It's on topic. You seem to be quite moderate when it comes to church stuff but if I recall you are a tea party supporter. You are perhaps the exception. Many SDA's I see that post here who are right wing are also fervent supporters of the Tea party. That is not meant to be an insult It's just what I observe. I only support the tea party on a few items. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am much more conservative than most Republicans. It isn't that I am moderate about church. It is that I do not completely believe and/or agree with all things that many of the SDAs believe and agree with, especially when it comes to EGW. I don't believe that wearing jewlry will cast a bad light on a person or any of the other things. Myself, I have never been one that liked makeup or excessive amounts of jewlry and other things, but i don't believe it is up to a denomination to tell others how to dress, though suggestions are ok. I am very conservative about life though and don't personally think that any Adventist hospital should perform abortions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not sure its off the wall. It's on topic. You seem to be quite moderate when it comes to church stuff but if I recall you are a tea party supporter. You are perhaps the exception. Many SDA's I see that post here who are right wing are also fervent supporters of the Tea party. That is not meant to be an insult It's just what I observe. Can you describe a right wing SDA? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Many SDA's I see that post here who are right wing are also fervent supporters of the Tea party. That is not meant to be an insult It's just what I observe. How is that any different than you being a fervent Obama supporter? Why does water run down hill? Why can we breath air? The question is not a stumper. The left supports Obama, and the right supports the tea party. There you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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