BobRyan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Originally Posted By: BobRyan Liberals "pronouncing destruction" over Bible-believing conservative views is not some "new feature" in history. Are we demonizing? It appears that you are -- do you think it is wrong to see that in what you posted? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Quote: What "values" are you referring to specifically I don't mean abortion, marriage etc. I mean hymns only, ... Interesting because the common ground for both the Tea Party and the conservative SDAS - is less in the realm of "hymns" and more in the area of opposing the murder of children, and opposing the destruction of Marriage. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Interesting because the common ground for both the Tea Party and the conservative SDAS - is less in the realm of "hymns" and more in the area of opposing the murder of children, and opposing the destruction of Marriage. in Christ, Bob What hymns does the Tea Party favor? As far as I know the forming of the Tea Party came long after the SDA denomination. If the Tea Party has similar ground in area's does that make them a SDA Tea Party Adventist? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 As I said - I don't think there are hymns being promoted by the Tea Party Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Originally Posted By: BobRyan Liberals "pronouncing destruction" over Bible-believing conservative views is not some "new feature" in history. Are we demonizing? What do you think your opening post was doing? If a conservative, anything, says those things about any liberal views/groups they're accused of "demonizing" them. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Amen, Ted. Very well said in your description of what a "Tea Party Adventist" would be, if in fact such a thing really existed. Interesting who is doing the demonizing isn't it? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Interesting because the common ground for both the Tea Party and the conservative SDAS - is less in the realm of "hymns" and more in the area of opposing the murder of children, and opposing the destruction of Marriage. in Christ, Bob To which I would add the destruction of our country through the massive amounts of debt that the progressives and Obama have been racking up. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Interesting who is doing the demonizing isn't it? Cut him a little slack, joeb. It's bound to be tough being a low information voter. I honestly believe he is doing the best he can, with what little he's got. Try to imagine if almost everything you knew about the stuff that really matters, wasn't even true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I just realized this thread is not in the political section. I thought it was, I guess because of the comments, and the posters involved. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 8, 2013 Members Share Posted March 8, 2013 Interesting because the common ground for both the Tea Party and the conservative SDAS - is less in the realm of "hymns" and more in the area of opposing the murder of children, and opposing the destruction of Marriage. in Christ, Bob I don't see the "tea party" in that light at all. At least not the "tea party" that arose in the last few years and has just about disappeared! I saw them as apposed to any kind of taxes. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Originally Posted By: joeb Interesting who is doing the demonizing isn't it? Cut him a little slack, joeb. It's bound to be tough being a low information voter. I honestly believe he is doing the best he can, with what little he's got. Try to imagine if almost everything you knew about the stuff that really matters, wasn't even true. And you asked me to cut Laz some slack? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't see the "tea party" in that light at all. At least not the "tea party" that arose in the last few years and has just about disappeared! I saw them as apposed to any kind of taxes. Can you provide some backup for that statement? Being opposed to excessive taxes and spending is not quite the same as being "opposed to any tax" Dave Ramsey has a interesting quote that government should take notice of You cannot out earn your stupidity,you must change your behavior Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You cannot out earn your stupidity,you must change your behavior I like it. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Originally Posted By: bonnie You cannot out earn your stupidity,you must change your behavior I like it. ) Me too. Nice find, Bonnie. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 8, 2013 Members Share Posted March 8, 2013 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Excellent statement, doesn't only apply to government, this applies to many of us. Of course it doesn't apply only to government. But it does reflect some of the concerns of the Tea Party,rather than claiming they do not want any taxes. It should also reflect the concerns of SDA's Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I find the whole premise of this thread, along with it's opening statement, well...strange. It doesn't make sense, and shows an odd view of the right. The tea party may be new, but right thinking SDAs who believe in the constitution, and that gov't is already way too big, and overstepping it's role, is not new at all. If anything is new, it is the so called "progressives" who think that gov't isn't big enough. Who believe that the role of gov't needs to be enlarged, and given MORE control over EVERYTHING. That is a phenomina that would have been unimaginable to me, as little as 10 years ago. How can ANYBODY who kows and understands, what SDAs are supposed to know and understand about bible prophecy, believe that gov't needs to be any bigger, and given even MORE power? It defies all logic, and normal thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Originally Posted By: BobRyan Interesting because the common ground for both the Tea Party and the conservative SDAS - is less in the realm of "hymns" and more in the area of opposing the murder of children, and opposing the destruction of Marriage. in Christ, Bob I don't see the "tea party" in that light at all. At least not the "tea party" that arose in the last few years and has just about disappeared! I saw them as apposed to any kind of taxes. I don't know of any tea party candidate in congress today that ran on the platform of all taxes in America being abolished. When Hannity broadcast the tea party events - no hymns, no calls for abolishing all taxes in America... but there was a lot of talk about abortion and gay marriage, gay agenda etc. What hymns did I miss? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well, Laz, I fit the description of a rock-solid Adventist...yet I see a lot of straw men arguments here, Laz. Personally I think this thread was deliberately a lot of straw man arguments with very little actual truth. When you post a thread in a forum it is supposed to be appropriate to the rules of the forum.This one was not and quite deliberately so. To begin a topic singling out a politically active group with distortions is generally considered political. I was not surprised to see it moved but what surprised me a little was to see that once a thread has been moved someone can still post in that thread. If you look at the forum list and who the last poster is and then click on that topic there is another post following the move. Have we always been able to do that?Not sure Hymns only...with reference to what other activity? Preaching the eternal Gospel? What other type of music would you you expect to find in church? What hymns are specific to or used by Tea Party advocates? What is the connection? Long dresses only? I presume you are speaking to the US Adventist women here. There are some parts of the world where men customarily wear "long dresses" (actually, skirts) per their culture... I don't see how it could be referring to US adventists. I have belonged to the same SDA church since 1947 and I think I could count on one hand the number of women wearing long dresses to church.Nor have I seen that in any church I have visited over the years.There was a time some years ago when I was in my early 20's that long dresses came back into style for a short time. That was hardly unique to SDA women or considered a "test of a true" christian. No jewelry? Again, I presume you are speaking the US audience again. In other countries around the world, the jewelry issue revolves around marriage and dowry cultural issues... This is a completely untrue statement. Our small church is fairly conservative and any number of women wear some type of jewelry. No one condemns them but more importantly those wearing jewelry do not condemn those who do not No drums? Please...a little EGW context there. EGW was speaking to a specific usage of the drum. Over the years since I was a child we have had numerous musical instruments played.I would not like to see drums in church the way many play that instrument,OTOH we have had those as part of a special music group played appropriately. I played the accordion,not a problem,however I knew enough and had enough respect for where I was not to be playing the "Beer Barrel Polka" EGW on par with the Bible? EGW herself tells us never to do that to her works, so that cannot be a truthful "Tea Party Adventist" position. This is the old battle cry from many that is used at the mere mention of EW. Again what does EW have to do with comparison to a political group? Vegetarianism a test of fellowship? Why stop there? Isn't vegan a better "test" from those who wish to part from animal products? We have those that eat meat,drink coffee,those that are vegetarian and those that are vegan in our family. So what? That is true and increasingly so of those that really have no religious convictions at all. My husband was baptized in 1962 into a small conservative church. He was not a vegetarian.Never a word was mentioned about a test of fellowship in regards to meat.I know some recent converts,some eat meat and some don't.Again,never mentioned or implied it was a test of fellowship Each of these points you have listed are designed to set up a certain image of undesirability you apparently wish to portray of those you disagree with, and associating the term, "Tea Party" with that image. My thoughts on that tactic will conclude this post... Maybe a little "Truth is important" might be appropriate. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 This is almost funny. I find certain similarities between the Tea Party movement and the the New Right in the Seventh-day Adventist church. Has legitimate concerns. Argues for a return to traditional values (real or imaginary). Demonizes opponents. Popular grass-roots movement. Has considerable financial resources. Well organized. Now mainstream. Will ultimately prove self-destructive. Just the generic "traditional values" What are those you object to that you can in truth say "conservatives" mean. As for demonizing opponents both the political liberal and the religious liberal should be walking cautiously around that statement as well. A quick glance thru this forum will show you many that outright blame a conservative adventist for all the ills,for driving others from the church etc. If you are opposed to gay marriage,that automatically makes you a homophobic and narrow minded. If you are pro-life,no question about it,you don't care about the existing starving children of world or the children killed in war. If you object to those that could do more for themselves collecting welfare,you don't want any kind of a safety net. None of which is true. Politically talk a stroll thru the history of just our current admin and then explain what demonizing a opponent means to you. Starting with how Obama won his senate seat and down thru the last campaign.Romney was even blamed for the death of a man's wife,when a quick research told a much different story. The vulgar,foul names many conservative women were called publically thru the media. I would like to know what the financial reserves are of conservative Adventists are and where it comes from. Liberals,statistically have the greater wealth. Politically are Tea Party advocates as well funded as liberal activists? Don't think so. The Tea Party activists can hardy be called well organized.They present a wide variety of different beliefs Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 As a conservative SDA,I don't care who eats meat and who doesn't.Never ask unless I am having someone for dinner and don't know. I don't and never have wear worn long dresses.But OTOH,I don't wear or see the need to wear something that shows everything south of the equator if I move wrong. Do I care if someone wears jewelry? Nope,that is a decision they need to make. Do I want drums played in church in a ear splitting and disrespectful manner?Nope. Because I do not believe in redefining marriage and consider a homosexual lifestyle as wrong and deviant behavior,do I hate gays or want to see them run out of the church.Nope Neither do I want the "tolerant" liberal to insist I consider that only another reasonable lifestyle choice or I am somehow less than christian. I am pro life.I do not run around berating those that are pro choice. Neither do I want the liberal pro-choice spreading his own "brand of truth" claiming I do not care about the existing starving children or those children killed as a result of war. Did I want my sons to grow up having traditional values.Without a doubt. But I doubt I mean the same as the OP when referring to traditional values. I think the OP generally refers to the worst of human nature as the traditional values being referred to Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It seems there is a danger in the Tea Party SDA's and those long dresses.Who knew they had so much influence as to have a impact on the style of dresses for women. I do a lot of sewing and am a member of many sewing groups so do end up with e-mail ads for patterns It's no secret that maxi dresses have been one of this summer's most popular trends Pne of the ads for some very attractive clothing Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 14, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted March 14, 2013 How can ANYBODY who kows and understands, what SDAs are supposed to know and understand about bible prophecy, believe that gov't needs to be any bigger, and given even MORE power? It defies all logic, and normal thinking. Right wing Adventists typically like the government to have more power and money when it comes to the military, the police, and the security apparatus. Who are the people that will enforce the persecution that is talked about in prophesy? Doesn't that defy logic? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Originally Posted By: RLH How can ANYBODY who kows and understands, what SDAs are supposed to know and understand about bible prophecy, believe that gov't needs to be any bigger, and given even MORE power? It defies all logic, and normal thinking. Right wing Adventists typically like the government to have more power and money when it comes to the military, the police, and the security apparatus. Who are the people that will enforce the persecution that is talked about in prophesy? Doesn't that defy logic? Yes, your statement defies logic. You know why? Because it is patently false. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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