Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Breakfast. I'll be back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Two points, Samie. 1.You claimed that our unrighteousness was taken care of on the cross, meaning that, I guess, no person is unrighteous? I'm not sure what you think this means, but clearly there are unrighteous people. At any rate, 1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Your position on this is that this verse is incorrect. So I guess you're right, this isn't new, but I'll just leave this in case there are any new readers on the thread, and you can comment if you like. 2.I wrote above that sin resides in the mind. I'm curious if you understand things this way. If you don't believe that sin resides in the mind, what do you think instead of this? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 1. On Righteousness: The righteousness I speak of is the righteousness of God that Scriptures speak of: KJV Romans 3:21-23 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God And because of what God did for us through Christ on the cross, we became God’s righteousness: NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. We became righteous through Christ because God made us holy and perfect through Christ (Heb 10:10, 14), being His Body on the cross (Eph 2:11-19) where God forgave us all our sins (Col 2:13) and when Christ resurrected, we were resurrected together with Him (Eph 2:4-6). Having been made righteous, we are expected to live a righteous life: NKJ 1 Peter 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness -- by whose stripes you were healed. Paul sums this up by saying: Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. And we were freed from sin because we died with Christ: Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. And from here on, the life of faith takes over, as exemplified by Abraham and all the overcomers Scriptures mention. Those who choose to live unrighteous lives are non-overcomers and are sure of being blotted out from the BOL when they die. As to 1 John 1:9, I remain steadfast with my previous stand. The confession mentioned in that verse (Greek o`mologe,w homologeo, means the same as “acknowledge” see Matt 10:32) had been taken cared of for us by Jesus Himself as our High Priest. KJV Leviticus 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: As the High Priest, at Yom Kippur, confessed all the sins of the children of Israel upon the scapegoat thereby transferring upon its head all sins of the people, so Jesus as our High Priest acknowledged before the Father all the sins of His Body (humanity) and transferred them all to Himself, the Head of the “One New Man” that died on the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Quote As to 1 John 1:9, I remain steadfast with my previous stand. The confession mentioned in that verse (Greek o`mologe,w homologeo, means the same as “acknowledge” see Matt 10:32) had been taken cared of for us by Jesus Himself as our High Priest. By your previous stand you mean that John was wrong and needed to be corrected? Regarding "acknowledge", that's fine, but what's being acknowledged? What's being acknowledged is ones sins that one has committed. If we acknowledge these sins, then God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, which is just what we need, a clean heart. We are cleansed by Christ when we believe. Here's another example of the same thing: Quote 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified (Luke 18) Why was the publican justified? Because he asked for mercy. Surely you must see this(?). I don't see how this could be any clearer. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, pnattmbtc said: 2.I wrote above that sin resides in the mind. I'm curious if you understand things this way. If you don't believe that sin resides in the mind, what do you think instead of this? Unless shown from Scriptures that sin resides in the mind, I cannot comment on it, because my only basis is what Scriptures say. It is waste of time for me to discuss things without end since there is no final arbiter when issues are not in Scriptures. Frankly, I have not yet so much read in Scriptures that sin resides in the mind. I would be grateful if you can show me where. The only instance which seems to indicate that sin resides somewhere, is when Scriptures said "I will remember their sins no more." But remembering a thing does not necessarily mean the thing itself resides in the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 What I see that happens is that if we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, we ask for forgiveness, and God forgives us. Do you agree with this? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Quote 2.I wrote above that sin resides in the mind. I'm curious if you understand things this way. If you don't believe that sin resides in the mind, what do you think instead of this? Quote Unless shown from Scriptures that sin resides in the mind, I cannot comment on it, because my only basis is what Scriptures say. It is waste of time for me to discuss things without end since there is no final arbiter when issues are not in Scriptures. This is all over the Bible. I don't see how one could read anywhere in the Bible and not see this. As a starting point, consider where sin originated (for man), Genesis 3. How did sin happen here? It happened in the mind. Eve, being tempted, believe the serpents lies, and sinned. James explains the same process. The Gospels treat it at length. The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. The first for this problem is: 1.Believing the truth as revealed by Christ. 2.Committing acts of obedience by faith. Quote Frankly, I have not yet so much read in Scriptures that sin resides in the mind. I would be grateful if you can show me where. What do you think the mechanics of sin are then? Quote The only instance which seems to indicate that sin resides somewhere, is when Scriptures said "I will remember their sins no more." But remembering a thing does not necessarily mean the thing itself resides in the mind. I think you should think through what sin is and how it works. If we don't understand what the problem is, how can we hope to understand the solution? This ties into what we were discussing yesterday, in regards to why believing the truth is important. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I remain steadfast in my stand: 1. All sins were forgiven at the cross (Col 2:13) 2. God remembers our sins no more (Heb 10:17) 3. Christ died to put away sin (Heb 10:12) 4. Sin cannot have dominion over us (Rom 6:14) 5. We were freed from sin (Rom 6:7) 6. One confession is enough for forgiveness, as I have earlier explained in my previous post. And Jesus did this for us as shown in the process at Yom Kippur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 What are the mechanics of sin? That is, how does sin work? Isn't it what I said? (regarding Genesis 3) Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 You know, brother, why can't you just discuss what you want to discuss? All you have are explanations referencing events but not showing any verse in that portion of Scriptures where the event happened and show verbatim that what you are claiming is indeed spoken of in the verse. Sorry, I won't waste precious time discussing this issue, unless you show me from Scriptures, not from your brain, that sin resides in the mind. And then we can discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 9 minutes ago, Samie said: 3. Christ died to put away sin (Heb 10:12) and Heb 9:26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Samie, I explained what happened in Genesis 3. Here's the account from Scripture: Quote 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Here's my explanation: The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. Do you agree with this? Also I quoted Luke 18. Do you agree with what I wrote there? (which is basically that the publican asked for mercy and was forgiven). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 13 minutes ago, Samie said: I remain steadfast in my stand: 1. All sins were forgiven at the cross (Col 2:13) 2. God remembers our sins no more (Heb 10:17) 3. Christ died to put away sin (Heb 10:12; 9:26) 4. Sin cannot have dominion over us (Rom 6:14) 5. We were freed from sin (Rom 6:7) 6. One confession is enough for forgiveness, as I have earlier explained in my previous post. And Jesus did this for us as shown in the process at Yom Kippur. There is just no way for Jesus, on the cross, to miss even one single sin - past, present, future. It is not unlikely that a person may even forget one of his sins, one can never tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Samie, I explained what happened in Genesis 3. Here's the account from Scripture: Here's my explanation: The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. Do you agree with this? Also I quoted Luke 18. Do you agree with what I wrote there? (which is basically that the publican asked for mercy and was forgiven). I am not into discussion with you yet, brother. I cannot see from the verses you showed that sin resides in the mind. Until you have shown me, I am sorry, but I refuse to discuss for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Samie said: I am not into discussion with you yet, brother. I cannot see from the verses you showed that sin resides in the mind. Until you have shown me, I am sorry, but I refuse to discuss for the time being. Forget about that then (that is, about sin residing in the mind) and address the posts I wrote, which don't mention this at all. I did as you asked. I quoted scripture, and gave you an explanation for what I think happened. I'm asking you if you agree with my explanations. Please respond to the posts, which do just what you asked me to do. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: There is just no way for Jesus, on the cross, to miss even one single sin - past, present, future. It is not unlikely that a person may even forget one of his sins, one can never tell. But we can all rely upon our sin-bearer, our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. He bore all our sins in His Body on the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Forget about that then (that is, about sin residing in the mind) and address the posts I wrote, which don't mention this at all. I did as you asked. I quoted scripture, and gave you an explanation for what I think happened. I'm asking you if you agree with my explanations. Please respond to the posts, which do just what you asked me to do. OK, but with one request. So I won't go into a wild-goose-chase of what issue to address (this should be a new issue), why don't you tell me one issue at a time, and provide the link to the post where your explanation is. If the issue is new and had not been discussed, then we are in for a good discussion. Your turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The issue is if you agree with the explanation of the texts I provided. I don't know what you have in mind besides that. I quoted texts, gave an explanation of the text, and I'm asking if you agree with my explanation. If you don't, please explain why, or give your own explanation. I'll put them here for your convenience: Quote 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Here's my explanation: The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. Do you agree with this? Also I quoted Luke 18. Do you agree with what I wrote there? (which is basically that the publican asked for mercy and was forgiven). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. Do you agree with this? No. For me, just in #1, sin is already committed. Believing the words of the enemy instead of believing God's words is, for me, missing the mark. 6 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Also I quoted Luke 18. Do you agree with what I wrote there? (which is basically that the publican asked for mercy and was forgiven). No. Justification is different from forgiveness. The verse there says, the publican was justified. Forgiveness requires shedding of blood (Heb 9:22). Jesus also justifies us individually now because He was raised for our justification (Rom 4:25), but the forgiveness was done at the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Quote The mechanics of sin are: 1.Believing the serpent's lie, being enticed by temptation. 2.Acting on one's unbelief by transgressing the law. Do you agree with this? No. For me, just in #1, sin is already committed. Believing the words of the enemy instead of believing God's words is, for me, missing the mark. The context here is Eve's sin. You are saying that even without Eve's eating the fruit, she still committed sin? This isn't really important to my point, but I'll respond since you brought it up. Quote Me:Also I quoted Luke 18. Do you agree with what I wrote there? (which is basically that the publican asked for mercy and was forgiven). Samie:No. Justification is different from forgiveness. The verse there says, the publican was justified. Forgiveness requires shedding of blood (Heb 9:22). Jesus also justifies us individually now because He was raised for our justification (Rom 4:25), but the forgiveness was done at the cross. Actually, it's not. Quote Pardon and justification are one and the same thing. (FW 103) This is found in Scripture in Romans 4: Quote 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. and even in Luke 18! The publican asked for mercy, for his sins to be pardoned, and Jesus explained that he went away justified. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Quote Quote Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Software glitch. Ok, let's go with your idea that believing the enemy's lies is sin already. Given this is the case, can you not see that sin resides in the mind? This is an important point to understand. This is why believing the truth is so important. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Bro, if you want a good discussion, can we just stay with one single issue and not clutter it with different ones? I don't feel at ease discussing more than one issue at a time. I suggest: Justification is NOT the same with forgiveness. And this was what we were already discussing until your latest post on sin resides in the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 But if you want plenty of issues concurrently discussed, sorry, but you are discussing with the wrong person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Do you agree that we first finish the current issue of "Justification is NOT the same as Forgiveness"? If Yes, then good. We continue discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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