Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[8thdaypriest]

The Book of Revelation is written as an ancient covenant lawsuit.  Yahweh is the one bring suit against the other party to the Covenant with Him.

The accused could not be executed without the testimony of "two witnesses".  This is the role of Chapter eleven's "two witnesses".  They give testimony against those who have set aside the covenant commandments of God. 

I personally believe the trumpet judgments will come during the 42 months (1260 days) (time, times and a part) that the "two witnesses" give their "testimony".  THIS is the period of the "judgment". 

The word "judgment" can mean EITHER the period during which the case is decided, OR the punishment decided upon.   We have all heard the expression "It is the judgment of this court".  

The "hour of His judgment" may be the beginning of the 1260 days during which the heavenly court is hearing testimony

OR it may be the hour of execution - of the "judgment of the court". 

I believe the weight falls to the start of the time period during which the court is hearing testimony and then deliberating BECAUSE 13:7 says "Fear God and give glory to Him" and "worship Him who made heaven and earth".  Those commands would be unnecessary IF the cases of all had already been decided.  Same for 18:4 - "come out of her".   

The "hour" of His judgment" BEGINS when the heavenly Court of Daniel 7 is seated. 

Just my opinion. 

[hch]

15 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The Book of Revelation is written as an ancient covenant lawsuit.  Yahweh is the one bring suit against the other party to the Covenant with Him.

The accused could not be executed without the testimony of "two witnesses".  This is the role of Chapter eleven's "two witnesses".  They give testimony against those who have set aside the covenant commandments of God. 

I personally believe the trumpet judgments will come during the 42 months (1260 days) (time, times and a part) that the "two witnesses" give their "testimony".  THIS is the period of the "judgment". 

The word "judgment" can mean EITHER the period during which the case is decided, OR the punishment decided upon.   We have all heard the expression "It is the judgment of this court".  

The "hour of His judgment" may be the beginning of the 1260 days during which the heavenly court is hearing testimony

OR it may be the hour of execution - of the "judgment of the court". 

I believe the weight falls to the start of the time period during which the court is hearing testimony and then deliberating BECAUSE 13:7 says "Fear God and give glory to Him" and "worship Him who made heaven and earth".  Those commands would be unnecessary IF the cases of all had already been decided.  Same for 18:4 - "come out of her".   

The "hour" of His judgment" BEGINS when the heavenly Court of Daniel 7 is seated. 

Just my opinion. 

Thanks for sharing.

I have posted my understanding of the 1260 on other threads in this forum

There were 1260 years from Moses to Christ's crucifixion.

There were 1260 years from when the papacy arose in 538 to its fall in 1798

and the 1260 days are 42 months

John-Paul II died on 2 April 2005 which was 42 months after 9/11/01

The Judgment hour of the dead as I understand it was 10/22/1844 to 2/22/1928

The Judgment hour of the Living was as I understand it was 10/14/1929 to 2/14/2013

Thus we are living in the final sealing time that will soon end

The Judgment hour of the Living correlated with the reigns of the 7 heads on the healed papal beast

One of the papal beast's heads was wounded to death when:

Pope Pius VI lost his secular government and position as head of all the churches in February 1798

The Pius head was healed when Pius XI had his secular kingdom restored February 1929

There were 7 popes from Pius XI until Benedict XVI who ruled a short space

I understood his short space to end before the Spring of 2013

Thus from 9/30/2011 to 9/30/2012 I tweeted 8 times that he would not be pope after the spring of 2013. He resigned effective 28 February 2013 which was 1 month and 1 day short of 7 years according to the Babylonian traditional method of measuring a king's reign

Then Rev 18 declares Babylon is fallen (2nd angel's message) because of her fornication. It was the priests fornication that caused Benedict's resignation. He had ushered in the year of the priest and a year to evangelize the world, because  decent people were leaving his church because of the priests' fornication scandal (the Euphrates was and is drying up to make way for the kings of the east)

Then the kings of the earth (Obama and America's Supreme Court) committed fornication with Rome by making homosexual marriage the law of the land. Thus their Judgment has reached Heaven (the 1st angel's message).

And the merchants of the earth are distressed because of the financial calamity that has begun (the time of trouble like we have never had since there was a nation) which will culminate with President Obama turning against America's Constitution, then God's Covenant, and implementing the Mark of the Beast which is to wage war against God's people.

And instead of waking up to their danger, and studying the facts; they want to wait and see like the folks in Noah's Day that waited for it to start raining. 

Many have turned against the straight message. They fault the messenger. They read Scripture in the light of their own understanding. And they mock the possibility that this could be God's final warning to them in the sealing time as if they will have time to change their doubting character when they see it for themselves.'

But the parable of the 10 virgins illustrates that there comes a time when the cry that the bridegroom is coming is given that it is too late for the foolish virgins to change their ways and get oil in their lamps. If the foolish virgins don't get their oil by faith when the Lord offers it to them, they won't get it in time. When the foolish virgins saw that it was true and returned believing that the message of the bridegroom was true, they were too late. 

God allows the wheat and the tears to grow together. But He will shake the church and separate them in His own time and in His own way 

[CoAspen]

Quote

Many have turned against the straight message.........They read Scripture in the light of their own understanding.

Interesting how the above quote is used against others rather than ones self!!

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

The "wheat" will be waving good bye to Obama in just a few more hours. And we will see yet another failed prediction that was never meant to be.

The tares will be shedding tears regretting that they did not do more to rightly divide the word of God while probationary time was granted them.

I have no regrets with accurately understanding (before it happened) that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013 (except that I hesitated to say 29 March 2013 before the fact instead of Spring-I knew the day and did not commit in case I was too specific). I have no regrets calling Brexit correctly before the fact. And I have no regrets calling President Obama the last President identified in Daniel 7 & 8 & 12 & Revelation 13 -- That's how I read the prophecies and that is how I answered the pre-test. When it is over I'll take the post-test and get ready for the next battle of faith that My Jesus sends my way.

I just pray that those who ran the clock down like those in Noah's Day, Lot's Day, and the foolish virgins have not lost their last opportunity. But if that should be their fate, it is not because I did not make every effort to warn them.

[hch]

1 hour ago, CoAspen said:

Interesting how the above quote is used against others rather than ones self!!

Laodiceans are cold hot and indifferent. Should it surprise us that they all think that they are the ones that have responded to Christ's message and everyone else needs to do it too?

[hch]

FYI

I'm giving you an election scoop that is too weird to be true (TIC)

 

I'm a dabbling author with 9 books to my credit that no one ever read. In 2010 it was "The Last Church Meets The Obama-Nation" and 1 May 2015 I published "America the Obama-Nation"

 

From 30 Sept 2011 to 30 Sept 2012 I tweeted history in advance 8 times that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013. I correctly called Brexit before the vote was counted. And in 2008, I called the 2016 election for President Obama's 3rd term.

 

How does it happen?

a) Trump wins & Iran attacks America between 9 NOV-20Jan & Obama steps in?

Hillary wins, there is unfortunate incident, Iran war b4 20Jan & Obama steps in?

c) Something tragic happens to the President elect b4 20Jan & Obama steps in?

d) The most unusual Presidential race in American history ends like the others without a hitch on Inauguration day?

 

Definitely not D!

 

There are some details that I just have to wait for someone to tell me after it happens.

 

You won't have to wait until 20Jan2017 to find out who's really going to be in the Oval Office. My newest book is with the proof reader now: "9 November, The Bible, The Constitution, & Obama's 3rd Term"

 

This is the greatest hoax ever or the scoop of your life. lbl

 

This is my post and I am responsible for the content. God will be responsible for fulfilling the prophecies as He sees best. Then we will compare the pre-test with the post-test for our passing or failing grade. Reply here or send a private message

His child henry
 

The only man alive who tweeted 8 times during the 14 months before Pope Benedict retired that Benedict would not be pope after the Spring 2013. The only one who has called the 8 November 2016 election for Obama's third term. Can't happen? Will happen!

[CoAspen]

Told you he would always find a way out of his foretelling......the truth is out there but certainly not here.

[Dave Watchman]

4 hours ago, hch said:

a) Trump wins & Iran attacks America between 9 NOV-20Jan & Obama steps in?

I found something that might be big. Another guy noticed it too who's much smarter than me, the guy who made the Revelation 12 videos from Africa. He found something strange with Jupiter in 1994. It was the way that it was hit by comet Shoemaker-Levy on the underside by the 21 fragments. It was as if a dotted line was being drawn around the underside of Jupiter's heel.

"He will crush your head, and you will bruise his heel."

The idea here is that it's not an accident that the comet was discovered by a guy named SHOEmaker. SHOE and HEEL. And we've all heard the one about the Obama Nation of Desolation coming from the abomination of desolation. These things might not be just funny little alliterations. 

The next idea is that Trump is signaling the seven trumpets. If Trump wins it's a sign that the seven trumpets are imminent. Obama will be the last President because the first four trumpets will fall before Trump can be inaugurated.

Or it might just be a slow time at the date setter's convention.

[LifeHiscost]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

It is not a matter of salvation to adopt your take on prophecy.  Your prediction about Obama staying on as president has already failed.

"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners IN ZION will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat [AFTER THE CLOSE OF PROBATIONARY TIME--CHRIST'S OBJECT LESSONS 72]. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths...
The REMNANT that purify their souls by obeying the truth gather strength from the trying process, exhibiting the beauty of holiness amid the surrounding apostasy. All these, He says, 'I have graven . . . upon the palms of my hands' (Isa. 49:16)...
That which God required of Adam before his fall was perfect obedience to His law. God requires now what He required of Adam, perfect obedience, righteousness without a flaw, without shortcoming in His sight....We cannot do this without that faith that brings Christ's righteousness into daily practice." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 380.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[hch]

7 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

It is not a matter of salvation to adopt your take on prophecy.  Your prediction about Obama staying on as president has already failed.

It was a salvation issue in Noah's Day and Lot's Day when the people refused to receive the right message at the right time. In the parable of the 5 foolish virgins, they awoke too late; was that not a salvation issue? Waiting to act when acting upon faith is needed is not the safest policy. Ignoring facts that are uncertain in ones mind is not as good as prayerfully studying the subject. Stubbornness is rebellion. 

[hch]

6 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Told you he would always find a way out of his foretelling......the truth is out there but certainly not here.

Perhaps you think that Obama has already left office? Did you notice that the stock market fell 100 points this evening? Gold rose almost $50 an ounce. And oil fell about $1.50 a barrel. The time of trouble is progressing to the time of Jacob's Trouble and you still doubt?

[hch]

3 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

The next idea is that Trump is signaling the seven trumpets. If Trump wins it's a sign that the seven trumpets are imminent. Obama will be the last President because the first four trumpets will fall before Trump can be inaugurated.

Or it might just be a slow time at the date setter's convention.

Thanks for sharing. I study the Bible and prayerfully compare it to history and current events and the Spirit of Prophecy.

[hch]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Well I have been thinking about this topic some today and I see hch as making some very good points from the Bible and EGW writings and I appreciate his concerns for others during such tumultous times as we are living. I was just thinking too that when it comes to being a prophecy or a prophet the Bible describes such as being 100 percent accurate 100 percent of the time. There is no wiggle room for error in Bible prophecy.

In this you err by making infallibility the test. That was the same test that some folks used to turn from William Miller's teaching in 1843 when he got prophecy wrong. And it was the same test in 1844 when he was wrong again.  Then when he got it right about the Investigative Judgment in Heaven, folks had already written him off. Remember we have nothing to fear for the future except we forget how God has led us in the past. God did not lead His people with infallibility, He led them by faith and He allowed them to have near misses and He allowed them to grow their faith by continuing to study His word with a prayerful heart.

[hch]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

William Miller failed the test. So did those who followed him instead of Jesus.

You don't think that Jesus led William Miller?

[phkrause]

Actually WM did not get the date wrong, 1844, he got the event wrong in!

[hch]

37 minutes ago, phkrause said:

Actually WM did not get the date wrong, 1844, he got the event wrong in!

I would partially agree. 1843 was correct as well. Because of 1843 the tarrying time was identified. Without 1843 there could be no tarrying time to 1844. Thus both dates are essential to have a tarrying time. And what was seen as an error at that time is a blessing to those who understand it in our time.

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH said below, along with a lot of other stuff:

The fact that a prediction of HCH, or any other person, comes to pass, does NOT prove that the Bible predicted such would happen.  Throughout history a lot of  claims have been made as to what the Bible predicted that were simply false.  The Bible simply does not predict everything that will happen in life. 

Decisions as to what the Bible says should be grounded in a solid basis for understanding what the Bible teaches.  

Two very important words related to this subject are:

Eisegesis

Exegesis

 

Quote

The only man alive who tweeted 8 times during the 14 months before Pope Benedict retired that Benedict would not be pope after the Spring 2013. The only one who has called the 8 November 2016 election for Obama's third term. Can't happen? Will happen!

[JoeMo]

13 hours ago, hch said:

Perhaps you think that Obama has already left office? Did you notice that the stock market fell 100 points this evening? Gold rose almost $50 an ounce. And oil fell about $1.50 a barrel. The time of trouble is progressing to the time of Jacob's Trouble and you still doubt?

Oops! Stock markets in U.S. are up around 1% across the board.

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

lol, say goodbye to Obama my friend This prophecy event of yours is done

While I thoroughly disagree with hch's premise, Obama is NOT out of office until Jan. 20.  There are those who firmly believe that a global crisis (possibly orchestrated by Obama) could postpone or cancel the inauguration.

[hch]

6 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH said below, along with a lot of other stuff:

The fact that a prediction of HCH, or any other person, comes to pass, does NOT prove that the Bible predicted such would happen.  Throughout history a lot of  claims have been made as to what the Bible predicted that were simply false.  The Bible simply does not predict everything that will happen in life. 

Decisions as to what the Bible says should be grounded in a solid basis for understanding what the Bible teaches.  

Two very important words related to this subject are:

Eisegesis

Exegesis

 

Gregory,

Let's not forget that the coin has two sides. Prophecy has been fulfilled and the fulfillment has been rejected by those who made a case much like the one offered here. The only sure way to know is to study the particulars; prayerfully and carefully, but not superficially and with predetermined biases.

[hch]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Oops! Stock markets in U.S. are up around 1% across the board.

But the volatility is higher than it has ever been. In an hour fortunes are redistributed. This is not normal from a historical point of view. And when the economy goes into its death dive, Christians (and churches) that should have put their money into God's work will be wailing that they did not know it was time to make some fundamental changes.

[hch]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

While I thoroughly disagree with hch's premise, Obama is NOT out of office until Jan. 20.  There are those who firmly believe that a global crisis (possibly orchestrated by Obama) could postpone or cancel the inauguration.

One of the ways to identify truth is if the devil tries to counterfeit it. I base my understanding on Bible prophecy and take note of history, and whatever I see as I watch as my Lord commanded. And I see a lot of people who use signs in the heavens, dreams, and conspiracy theories. It is a most testing time to be able to rightly divide the word of God to His glory. Perhaps that is why the caution is given that even the elect could be deceived?

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Others have made the same or similar prophetic predictions re Obama. In case you missed it, Trump is now the President. The first few minutes of the enclosed video explains the failed prophecy again.

My friend,

It is easy to find questionable information and build a straw man argument (because A's wrong, B's got to be wrong too). But it is more blessed to look at the facts and compare Scripture to Scripture. Lots of folks say that they have done just that regarding my postings... who am I to judge how deep they sank the well in their search of truth. The Holy Spirit will do the work that He has ordained that must and will be done if we cooperate with Him. 

[hch]

7 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Decisions as to what the Bible says should be grounded in a solid basis for understanding what the Bible teaches.  

This looks familiar. When I took the time to address that issue in another place and time, I posted this:

Jer 27:7 "And all nations shall serve him [Nebuchadnezzar], and his son [Nabonidus], and his son’s son [Belshazzar], until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him."

Da 2:38 "Thou [Nebuchadnezzar] art this head of gold."

Da 2:39 And after thee [Nebuchadnezzar] shall arise another reign from your land, and another third reign of brass, which shall bear rule over all the land.

Daniel 2 fulfills Jeremiah's prophecy. Daniel 2 is primarily about KINGS.

Dan 2:40 "And the fourth reign shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, it shall be broken in pieces and bruise."

Dan 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven appoint a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these reigns, and it shall stand for ever."

When Daniel 7 came along it repeated and enlarged the meaning of Daniel 2 from kings to kingdoms. Then Heaven's interpretation of Daniel 7 revealed the endtime meaning that was "sealed, closed, and shut-up" until the time of the end (Dan 12:4 & 9)

Dan 7:17 "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

7:17 is Heaven's interpretation of the meaning of the vision in 7:1-14. To say that the translators knew more than Heaven because they chose the word kingdom when reign was the meaning that Heaven revealed is foolishness. Heaven says the vision is about KINGS. Heaven says the vision is about kings that came from the EARTH. Thus we are obliged to discover what the earth is in the interpretation of this prophecy rather than to discover the meaning of the sea in the vision to use it to explain the interpretation. When Heaven's interpretation of the prophecy is followed to interpret the vision, the correct meaning that was sealed until the endtime is understood.

When the vision 7:1-14 is used to interpret the interpretation, the incorrect meaning is inserted in place of Heaven's interpretation.

That is not rocket science it is the historicist methodology rightly applied.

Also note that Daniel was bilingual. the Word that he used for sea (Daniel 7:2-3) is West in Hebrew. 

Daniel 7:2 "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea." can also be saying: "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove WITH CAPTAINS FROM THE WEST".

The word for great is also CAPTAIN in both Aramaic and Hebrew.

Looking beyond the superficial is needed especially when the image beast becomes the power to enforce the beast's dogmas. And knowing that Barack Obama is the man heading the image beast when Christ Comes, helps us not to be deceived when the endtime events are upon us. God does not put things in the Bible that are unimportant.

_________________________
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).

[JoeMo]

20 minutes ago, hch said:

Perhaps that is why the caution is given that even the elect could be deceived?

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Matt. 24:24)

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Mark 13:22

Notice the words "if possible".  I can easily infer that these words mean that it will be impossible to deceive the elect.