Problems In The White Community

[Dr. Shane]

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I don't own a battleaxe (I may yet turn into one though LOL).

[Kountzer]

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This is one thing that always confuses me. Why does the child of mixed race always say they are African American while usually negating the white in them?

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Yes I know many people choose due to the color of their skin but so many of mixed race will openly say they are black only.

People of mixed race background who refer to themselves as being black is a direct result of the american slavery caste system. In this system if you had any noticable trace of black blood or black features you were considered black. This system still exists. Black people didn't invent this system, white slave owners created it.

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I get upset that some people can't just claim they are American and be proud of that. They have to be something special. Something different. And then play off of that.

Consider the historical and socially significant case of Paul Roberson. There are many, many others.

Paul Roberson was a scholar. He attended an ivy league college, Rutgers. He graduated from there with honors, magna cum laude, or something like that. He also played football for Rutgers. He was the first black person to be named all american in football. After graduation Mr Roberson attended Columbia Univ. law school, another prestigious academic institution. He graduated from there with honors, at or near the top of his class. He passed the bar, and then attempted to practice law. The gov't would not let him. Why? Was it because he was not American? No. He was born and raised in this country. It was because he was black.

Mr. Roberson didn't let that stop him. He went into acting. He became one of the most widely acclaimed broadway actors. To this day he is considered one of the greatest baritone singers the world has ever known.

Disillusioned about the so called american dream of prosperity, he later became a communist. Maybe not the best choice, but considering what he had experienced, I can understand. For this he was ex-patriated. He had to go live in Europe.

Examples like this are why black people refer to themselves with a hyphen, as in african-american.

DB

[Gerr]

My perception is that historically, the White community generally rejected calling white (even though they very much look white) someone whose blood has been contaminated by other races, even though it may just be 1/4th, 1/8th, or even 1/16th "other".

There are some advantages for someone who looks like a White person but has some Native American blood no matter how miniscule it may be. I had one such patient. He could get all his medications free from the Indian Health services by claiming being Indian although for all practical purposes he looked white.

Gerry

[John317]

My perception is that historically, the White community generally rejected calling white (even though they very much look white) someone whose blood has been contaminated by other races, even though it may just be 1/4th, 1/8th, or even 1/16th "other".

There are some advantages for someone who looks like a White person but has some Native American blood no matter how miniscule it may be. I had one such patient. He could get all his medications free from the Indian Health services by claiming being Indian although for all practical purposes he looked white.

Gerry

I have two daughters who are half Mexican and half caucasion yet from the day they were born they have been in the government computers as "hispanic". At the school where they study they are "hispanic" and, except for a little check mark at the bottom of the page, the system completely ignores the fact that their father is caucasion, making them at least half of the same. I was rather angry at first when I learned of this little oversight, but now I understand it. They do it that way because when kids are born into a home where one of the parents is Mexican, etc., it can result in language and financial problems; that is, those kinds of kids frequently have special needs in terms of education and learning to read and write English, in addition to gaining access to things that result in good health.

The fact is, too, that minority cultures, such as the black or hispanic communities, have a greater and profounder, more obvious, impact on kids than does the caucasion. I can tell you that kids whose parents are from Mexico wake up every day aware of their heritage, whereas white kids often don't even give their white heritage a thought during the first 16 years of life. Whites generally don't bring up their kids with a strong self-identity as white. Mexicans do. I see the difference every day. My kids go down to Mexico during vacations and spend weeks at a time with their Mexican aunts, uncles, and cousins. They speak and read Spanish and English, but my oldest prefers Spanish, and she speaks it at every opportunity. As a matter of fact, I have to remind her to speak English. That is because Spanish is a very expressive and beautiful language perfectly suited to convey emotions, whereas English (at least the way it is usually used today) is a language of abstractions and technology. It was once a wonderful language, back in the days of the King James Bible and of Shakespeare, but that day has long since gone and has been replaced by careless talk and, lately, by even more careless writing.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I also think it is important to note HOW the word is used. For instance ... Richard Wright used it to describe how hard it was for a "Black Boy" to be called this word especially after the abuse of living in an Adventist home which was so legalist.

Check out the book "Black Boy" to read about all the abuses this boy had with a Seventh day Adventist home in the South.

But again ... the book was written some 60 years ago.

His so called legalist Grandmother and Aunt treated him a lot better than the communist party.

DB

Of course. The communists didn't care anything about Wright except, as usual, to use him for lousy propaganda purposes. Ralph Ellison, a *Negro writer, wrote about a character a lot like Richard Wright in one of the greatest American novels of the 20th century. It is called Invisible Man.

*I use the word because it is a prominant word in the book and also because blacks were called Negroes when Ralph Ellison wrote it. I do not mean the word by any means to be understood in a denigrating way. It is merely the Spanish word for black.

[Woody]

You are right to have to be so defensive John317.

Society has become so PC that you can no longer use the English language. For instance ... the word Niggard. It has no reference to the Black people. Yet ... it is almost gone from use because it sounds like the N word.

Is it possible that we have gone to far with our sensitivities when the Blacks themselves are not sensitive about the use of the word among themsleves. It is only the Whites that are sensitive and careful. Unless a White uses the word ... then all hell break out.

[Kountzer]

I read the invisible man too, even before I read black boy. No need to explain. My experience with the word negro is a lot more extensive than yours.

DB

[Woody]

I am sorry that you are so much older than I.

Old age is Hell.

[Amelia]

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This is one thing that always confuses me. Why does the child of mixed race always say they are African American while usually negating the white in them?

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Yes I know many people choose due to the color of their skin but so many of mixed race will openly say they are black only.

People of mixed race background who refer to themselves as being black is a direct result of the american slavery caste system. In this system if you had any noticable trace of black blood or black features you were considered black. This system still exists. Black people didn't invent this system, white slave owners created it.

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I get upset that some people can't just claim they are American and be proud of that. They have to be something special. Something different. And then play off of that.

Consider the historical and socially significant case of Paul Roberson. There are many, many others.

Paul Roberson was a scholar. He attended an ivy league college, Rutgers. He graduated from there with honors, magna cum laude, or something like that. He also played football for Rutgers. He was the first black person to be named all american in football. After graduation Mr Roberson attended Columbia Univ. law school, another prestigious academic institution. He graduated from there with honors, at or near the top of his class. He passed the bar, and then attempted to practice law. The gov't would not let him. Why? Was it because he was not American? No. He was born and raised in this country. It was because he was black.

Mr. Roberson didn't let that stop him. He went into acting. He became one of the most widely acclaimed broadway actors. To this day he is considered one of the greatest baritone singers the world has ever known.

Disillusioned about the so called american dream of prosperity, he later became a communist. Maybe not the best choice, but considering what he had experienced, I can understand. For this he was ex-patriated. He had to go live in Europe.

Examples like this are why black people refer to themselves with a hyphen, as in african-american.

DB

[Woody]

"It seems to me that persons of both black and white parents, who chose to be black only, are racist."

Well Said ... They are racist against their own race.

PS. I am Swiss+Swedish and even though it is a mouthful ... I proudly proclaim both.

[Dr. Shane]

I think we are starting to drift into problems in the black community. While these may or may not be problems blacks are dealing with, I think it helpful if this thread focuses more on problems in the white community.

Is whites lack of racial pride or cultural heritage something it needs to deal with?

[Woody]

"racial pride" is not allowed in the white community . It is not PC. And the Blacks would call it racist. Have you ever heard of a White Club? NO. They are not allowed. While Blacks have their clubs that are exclusive for Blacks ... Like the NAACP.

Can you imagine a National Assoc. for White people ???

Personally I see NO need for White pride. I am proud of my heritage YES. But I am not PROUD of my color. Color has no value.

I am really opposed to Racial Pride. We are all in the human race and that is all that matters.

Now Cultural heritage ... that is something to take pride in YES.

[Amelia]

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PS. I am Swiss+Swedish and even though it is a mouthful

Swissdish? Swewiss? ROFL

[Woody]

Regarding: "This is one thing that always confuses me. Why does the child of mixed race always say they are African American while usually negating the white in them?"

I would go so far as to say that the AFRICAN part of the name "negates" the American part. Lets just drop the part about WHERE we came from and concentrate on where we are now. When you become an American ... you drop all the other nationalities and allegiences.

But the way ... I have a proud SWISS+SWEDISH pedigree but I am only an American. I drop my heritage in favor of my allegience to America.

Nothing wrong with pride. Proclaim all of your pedigree. But drop them ALL in favor of being an American

[Amelia]

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Can you imagine a National Assoc. for White people ???

Sadly there are groups who think that white people are the only people that the world needs. And they have made clubs of a sort. They are the KKK and Ayrian Nations. Plus all of their offshoots.

[Woody]

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Can you imagine a National Assoc. for White people ???

Sadly there are groups who think that white people are the only people that the world needs. And they have made clubs of a sort. They are the KKK and Ayrian Nations. Plus all of their offshoots.

Those groups are not accepted . And that is exactly my point. Why is the NAACP accepted. They are ALL racist organizations.

[Amelia]

Do white Americans have a culture? What is the Amcerican culture? With so many races and cultures making up the Amercian fabric can we pinpoint anything that is uniquely Amcerican culture?

[Woody]

Yes ... I do . It is Swiss+Swedish. Do Blacks have a culture even though they are made up of so many cultures all around the world? Some may be African but even there ... look how many African countries are Black. Let's just face it. We are all different. Even though I may think my Swiss+Swedish pedigree is the best for White America ... I don't broadcast it except here on C/A.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: D_Bishop

Quote:

This is one thing that always confuses me. Why does the child of mixed race always say they are African American while usually negating the white in them?

Quote:

Yes I know many people choose due to the color of their skin but so many of mixed race will openly say they are black only.

People of mixed race background who refer to themselves as being black is a direct result of the american slavery caste system. In this system if you had any noticable trace of black blood or black features you were considered black. This system still exists. Black people didn't invent this system, white slave owners created it.

Quote:

I get upset that some people can't just claim they are American and be proud of that. They have to be something special. Something different. And then play off of that.

Consider the historical and socially significant case of Paul Roberson. There are many, many others.

Paul Roberson was a scholar. He attended an ivy league college, Rutgers. He graduated from there with honors, magna cum laude, or something like that. He also played football for Rutgers. He was the first black person to be named all american in football. After graduation Mr Roberson attended Columbia Univ. law school, another prestigious academic institution. He graduated from there with honors, at or near the top of his class. He passed the bar, and then attempted to practice law. The gov't would not let him. Why? Was it because he was not American? No. He was born and raised in this country. It was because he was black.

Mr. Roberson didn't let that stop him. He went into acting. He became one of the most widely acclaimed broadway actors. To this day he is considered one of the greatest baritone singers the world has ever known.

Disillusioned about the so called american dream of prosperity, he later became a communist. Maybe not the best choice, but considering what he had experienced, I can understand. For this he was ex-patriated. He had to go live in Europe.

Examples like this are why black people refer to themselves with a hyphen, as in african-american.

DB

Thank you for the examples and I agree this would lead to the use of the hyphen. But pardon me for still being a bit dense but it still doesnt explain to me why so many willingly ignore any presence of whiteness in them. While on the other hand they will let you know if there is any Asian, middle eastern or other race in their makeup. I do recall the "one drop" rule that would make a person black no matter what and I am not negating that but I wanted to go past that. Michael Johnson, the author of the article is very white looking. And at first glance I thought, wow a white guy got an article printed in Ebony! Yes I judged before I read. So here is a gentleman who is both white/jewish and black yet looks white. He could have chosen to be white but he chose to be black. Why? Just because he grew up in a black neighborhood? Can't be just because he has a black father, can it? Did his peers force him? Did he not love his mother? Just what is so wrong with acknowledging having part of oneself be white? Is there some stigma in the black community towards those with a mixture of both black and white? Because I sure do see alot of beautiful babies born to black and white couples.

It seems to me that persons of both black and white parents, who chose to be black only, are racist.

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People of mixed race background who refer to themselves as being black is a direct result of the american slavery caste system. In this system if you had any noticable trace of black blood or black features you were considered black. This system still exists. Black people didn't invent this system, white slave owners created it.

White slave owners created it but that doesn't mean that in the year 2007 black people need to keep the system going!

If you are of mixed race heritage and you have definitely black features you are not going to be accepted as white, and it would be insane to think so. The group that will accept you will be black folks and naturally that is the group that you identify with. The group that takes you in and claims you as one of them.

For the record, I had a mixed race dad, which means I also had a white grandfather. Never met him, don't have a clue as to who he is. Nor do I care. I'm proud to be black, and happy to be an american, whatever that means.

DB

[Woody]

"happy to be an american, whatever that means."

Being an American means that you have given up any previous alligence to any other continent or country and claim to support the United States of America and accept all the benefits therein.

If you are not able to give up alligence to another country or continent ... then perhaps you should return to that continent or country.

[Woody]

In honor of MLK day ...

I will tell you what racism is ... Racism is when you have a Black history month or week or year ... but you are not allowed to have a White History day or hour or even a minute. You are not even allowed to have an Asian or Arab minute or day.

What makes the Blacks so special that ONLY they can get recognition?

[lazarus]

There are many national organisations that are exactly that. They serve the interests of white people. They may not have white in their name but their focus is to serve the interest of whites. My guess its not wholly intentional but thats the way it is. The white conferences in the SDA church serve the interests of white members and in some cases white communities thats why black members wanted their own conferences to serve their members and communities.

Why is there a need for blacksda.com? Its because forums like CA do not, in general, serve the need to the black sda community or talk about the issues that concern them. The media, entertainment, clubs societies etc. do not serve the interests or even welcome black people becasue they are there to serve the interests the white people who make up the majhority of their membership

Of course, because society in general does not question your place in it or your value etc. Your "personhood" is affirmed every day.

[lazarus]

In honor of MLK day ...

I will tell you what racism is ... Racism is when you have a Black history month or week or year ... but you are not allowed to have a White History day or hour or even a minute. You are not even allowed to have an Asian or Arab minute or day.

The history channel is really the white history channel. I believe it on 24hrs a day, 365 days a year. Its a white history channel because 90% of its progamming is about the what white people have done. Its not bad in itself, thats the way it is. If you were to have a white history day what would you celebrate or talk about that is not already celebreated throughout the year?

[Gerr]

"It seems to me that persons of both black and white parents, who chose to be black only, are racist."

Well Said ... They are racist against their own race.

PS. I am Swiss+Swedish and even though it is a mouthful ... I proudly proclaim both.

[color:blue]Would you be patting yourself on the back as proudly if one of your parents was non-white?

I doubt that a person from a black/white union would deliberately choose to be all-black and deny his/her white heritage. As I mentioned in a previous post, the problem as I see it, is that most whites will/would not acknowledge the white part of that product of a mixed marriage. The purity of the race has to be maintained!

Gerry

[lazarus]

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Regarding: "This is one thing that always confuses me. Why does the child of mixed race always say they are African American while usually negating the white in them?"

Historically this may be why.....

the one drop theory

The one-drop theory (or one-drop rule) is a historical colloquial term for the standard, found throughout the United States of America, that holds that a person with even a tiny portion ("one drop of blood") of non-white ancestry should be classified as non-white, especially for the purposes of racial profiling and laws forbidding interracial marriage.

This notion of invisible/intangible membership in a "racial" group has seldom been applied to people of Native American ancestry (see Race in the United States for details). The notion has been largely applied to those of black African ancestry. Langston Hughes wrote, "You see, unfortunately, I am not black. There are lots of different kinds of blood in our family. But here in the United States, the word 'Negro' is used to mean anyone who has any Negro blood at all in his veins. In Africa, the word is more pure. It means all Negro, therefore black. I am brown."[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_theory