Creation Talk: Global Warming

[Dr. Shane]

Global Warming is Scientific Issue

1. Global warming is scientific issue, not a political one.

As far as I know, there is no field of study devoted entirely to

measuring and predicting tiny gradations in the color of the sky. Tiny

gradations in the global mean temperature of the Earth may affect us,

however. In fact, it may even affect some countries, like Canada, more

than others. That sounds like a political issue to me. In fact, I

think global warming is a scientific issue only because it is a

political issue.

2. As computer science graduate students, we have some special right

or obligation to discuss global warming.

This is nonsense. Most of us, myself included, are not climate

experts. We have no more of a right to an opinion than anyone else on

the street.

Someday, of course, politicians will call for devoting a huge amount

of resources to solving a large, tricky-looking instance of an NP-

complete problem. Then the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel of

Computational Complexity) will have to form an consensus opinion about

the difficulty of the task.

3. As non-experts, it is immoral for us to form an opinion about

global warming.

Because global warming is a political issue, this is also untrue. As

citizens of democratic nations, we do have an obligation to

understand, as well as we can, the risks of global warming. Because

when we go to vote, we are expected to make a decision based on that

understanding.

Of course, it’s important to keep in mind the risks of adopting

certain policies to address global warming: their impact on the

economy, for example. Our opinion may be that there is too little

information to warrant such risks. Or we may believe that such risks

are entirely warranted. I’m sure you can think of other possibilities,

but most politicians can’t. (Here is one other possibility: global

warming is happening, it’s our fault, it will kill us all, but it’s

too late to do anything about it.)

4. Al Gore’s documentary is enlightening.

I don’t care what Al Gore has to say about global warming. I would

have found something like “Army of Darkness” more educational for a

CSGSBS movie night. and Michael Crichton?! First he wants to talk

about chaos theory, then string theory, and now global climate change?

Can’t he just go back to writing [bad] novels?

There is a community of people who devote their lives to studying

global climate change. I am very interested in whether members of that

community largely agree about global warming, its causes, and its

effects. It seems like they do, but some people say otherwise. Of

course there will always be outliers in a field that studies tiny

gradations of anything. But if most experts agree, that is enough to

make me sit up and pay attention.

Josh

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

(Here is one other possibility: global

warming is happening, it’s our fault, it will kill us all, but it’s

too late to do anything about it.)

This is one perspective I didn't hear in Al Gore's film and one I think is very possible. We are killing off this planet by our lifestyle and I don't see that there is any going back. Our consumption of energy cannot be sustained forever. We are using all of the planet's natural resources. Even though many are in abundance, we are using them. Consider all the copper, cement, nickel, iron, aluminum and even the radioactive metals that are mined each year. Nuclear power is clean or is it? We can't store that waste forever.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." (Rev. 11:18)

[Bravus]

Thing is, even if we don't cut back on fossil fuels due to climate change, in the next few decades we will have to cut back on them because we've started running out. Many of the other things you mentioned, Shane, we will just have to get better at recycling rather than just tossing into landfills. Turns out space exploration is one way to access more raw materials...

On a slightly different tack, I read the linked article, which was interesting but a bit odd because there was no preamble indicating where the statements he was reacting to came from. But I also read an earlier post on 'arguments creationists shouldn't use', which I thought was very encouraging because it was a serious and sincere effort to improve the quality of the arguments creationists do use to support their positions.

[olger]

How do you "Kill" a planet anyway?

And how have you changed your life to avoid this murder?

regards,

`G

[Bravus]

We can't kill the planet. We'd have to lift our game even to kill the whole biosphere and all living things. What we can do, farily easily, is make the planet uninhabitable for humans, or at least for humans who don't want to live in a sealed dome as though they were living on Mars.

I personally have switched from a car to a motorbike and am moving closer to my job. I have reduced my international travel significantly. I just bought a new low-energy and low-water washing machine and installed it last night. I installed low water use showers and taps throughout the house. I avoid using air conditioning in the office, car and home whenever possible. And so on... not a catalogue of my virtues, and there's always more to be done, but I am putting my money and convenience where my mouth is.

[olger]

Okie dokey.

I still have three Powerstroke diesels, a cool 2-stroke dirt bike, a bulldozer, tractor, SUV etc..

Can I buy an indulgence for those items or did AlGore buy the last one?

[Bravus]

You can, of course, do exactly as you please.

Not an attacking question, but a curious one: where do you live? State level is precise enough, so I'm not gonna come stalk you or anything. I just might be able to outline a few of the consequences of climate change that you can expect to have an impact on you directly.

[Dr. Shane]

He lives in Ohio. He is to blame for Bush being re-elected which really means he is to blame for global warming.

Myself, I am slowing becoming more energy efficient. My electric bill is dropping but I am using more propane. I just bought a 4-cylinder car but I do eat beans so I might not be carbon neutral myself :(

[Bravus]

Yeah, I guess that's the other point: even if global warming is complete bunk, we are also running out of oil, and even besides that there are good reasons for weaning ourselves off dependence on middle east oil.

[olger]

You can, of course, do exactly as you please.

Not an attacking question, but a curious one: where do you live? State level is precise enough, so I'm not gonna come stalk you or anything. I just might be able to outline a few of the consequences of climate change that you can expect to have an impact on you directly.

Bravus my boy, how are you? I live right smack dab in the middle of Ohio. Corn to the left, woods to the right (our woods) beans to the North (for Shane), and a 25 acre dirt-bike track to the south (built it myself). I personally pushed those nasty blue-nosed green-eyed frogs out of the area with my non-politically correct bulldozer, and built the track out of good old American dirt. The dirtier the better. It's got jumps, whoops, tabletops, bowl turns, doubles, triples all made out of DIRT (but I digress..). Where was I?

Oh yes, Ohio. We got real weeds, coyotes, too dang many deer, beards, bib overalls, bunch of shotguns, and no earrings. Just about right. Other than that we ain't got much. But you come on over, and we'll give you what we got.

olger

[Bravus]

Man, I have ridden dirt bikes for years when I was younger, and that description makes me salivate! I know I often come across as pretty blue-nosed and green-eyed myself on this issue, but I do have a love for motorsport and motorbikes and speed that requires some pretty energetic rationalisations to maintain!

Anyway, tonight I will run the simulations and see what's in store for Ohio... but I'd love to be able to drop by and show you the cool animations in person... and maybe try to do some damage to myself on the bike.

[olger]

Hi Bravus. I picked you for a Chad Reed fan right from the start . Carmichael's better though.

If you don't mind KTM's, come on over. Got a nearly new 300 MXC just for you. Peel your eyeballs back.

Excuse me.. I got to go burn some tires in that old fence row,

olger

:)

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I personally pushed those nasty blue-nosed green-eyed frogs out of the area with my non-politically correct bulldozer

Do you listen to Rush Limbaugh while using that dozer?

[olger]

Nope, but our Postmaster has the `Baugh on at the post office. Was in there yesterday to buy stamps, and heard it again "The problem with Liiberrallls..."

It was great.

`G

[Woody]

Speaking of Global Warming....

So far ... April is the coldest on record for the US in 113 years according to a news report today.