You made me very angry!!!

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Major irrational idea #9

9. Give up the idea that people and things should happen differently from the way they do and that life turns awful and horrible if good solutions to its grim reality don’t quickly appear. Whether you like it or not reality exist and you’d better accept its existence before you set about changing it. At times, wisely accept compromise and reasonable rather than perfect and certain solutions to life problems.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Major irrational idea #10

10. Dispute the idea that you can achieve maximum human happiness by inertia and inaction or by passively and uncommittedly “enjoying yourself.” Strongly try to get absorbed in some persons or things outside yourself- involvement that truly interests you, rather than those that mainly bring you approval. In devoting yourself to an endeavor, try to choose a challenging, long range project. Force yourself, by specific acts of courage, to make yourself committedly alive.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Tomorrow or Sunday I will add some comments to these 10 major irrational ideas. At that point if you wish to answer the two questions I posed, that would be great. There is some important information that I want to post which I believe is vital to read before answering those questions.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

I just finished watching Joy Swift being interviewed by Danny Sheton on 3ABN. She is the woman who had her 4 children murdered and then 20 days later her oldest daughter died of cancer and shortly after that she was found with cancer.

She spoke about the principles that are posted on this thread. One of the things she waid was that we don't need to be a victim but can choose to be a victor. Also, we choose to make ourself upset, no one does that but us. She may have said it in different ways but meant the same. It was really good and I wish I could have recorded it. Hopefully it will come on again. [Program #6140 (Personal Testimony) - Danny Shelton *, Joy Swift]

She has two books; "They're all dead aren't they" and "My Heart Will Go On: An Unspeakable Crime and a Terrible Disease Claimed the Lives of Joy's Five Children but That's Not the End of the Story"

I think I will get these.

Norman

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

This flow chart is so ironic. Just last night, I was thinking about drawing one up that shows the progression of how I deal with it when people do or don't treat me in loving ways, taking the whole Forgiveness Factor into account, and what that does and doesn't mean, etc. Anyway, that's really cool!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

That said there was a time that I was wronged severely and became very angry. Interestingly as I was angry I told myself that something was wrong with ME. I did not blame my anger on the person that had wronged and harmed me. What he had done was over and done. I was the one choosing to remain angry about it. I had the problem - not him. Eventually I worked through it, which included a lot of prayer and forgiveness.

It's really hard to not blame yourself when you honestly believe that you are in control of how others treat you - that you always deserve what you get (it's usually abused abusers who say "you got what you deserved" - I swear, the blame-game is contagious). I just realized tonight that this is a deeply seeded thought-process that's hard to recognize. When you can finally come to a place where you recognize that you aren't in control of the Universe, nor your own world, or even of your own hormonal/brain-chemistry issues (without medication), but only of the choices that you consciously make for yourself based on what you know to be right vs. wrong, you are taking a great step to maturity and good health. Realizing that control-freaks are rarely in control of themselves is another great step. Knowing that you can choose not to react to them outside of the scope of your normal activities or your "outside of what they just did" emotions, is yet another...

[LifeHiscost]

When you can finally come to a place where you recognize that you aren't in control of the Universe, nor your own world, or even of your own hormonal/brain-chemistry issues (without medication)...

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Originally Posted By: ChildOfGod4Ever

When you can finally come to a place where you recognize that you aren't in control of the Universe, nor your own world, or even of your own hormonal/brain-chemistry issues (without medication)...

However, isn't it great that we can, by the freedom Christ gives each of His followers, submit ourselves and others to Him Whose wisdom never comes up short in solving the problems each of us face moment by moment.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7 KJV

Originally Posted By: ChildOfGod4Ever

...but only of the choices that you consciously make for yourself based on what you know to be right vs. wrong...

And even those choices can be assured to be correct when following Jesus' counsels.

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing. " John 15:5 ASV

Regards!!

I made those statements because not everyone has normal brain chemistry or hormone balances to begin with. Add to that those who have abused drugs/alcohol in the past (or currently). And then there are those who are mentally challenged, retarded, autistic... There are many who's ability to comprehend even right vs. wrong, much less anything seriously Biblical is either compromised or stripped away.

Not everyone is "normal" and yet we're all here, we all have to learn to deal with each other on some level, etc.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Add to that those who have abused drugs/alcohol in the past (or currently). And then there are those who are mentally challenged, retarded, autistic... There are many who's ability to comprehend even right vs. wrong, much less anything seriously Biblical is either compromised or stripped away.

Some people can't be told about the Gospel at first because they have really little self worth. If you start telling these people about Romans 3 for example that may not be able to handle that. You can however tell someone that the reason they get mad is because they choose to be mad.

Some people take the Bible and believe it with superstition as a foundation. In other words everything is mystical to them and it scares some people. When I went through rehab they told me to leave my Bible aside. I was hesitant but then thought,"you know what I have messed myself up so badly maybe I should just listen to someone else for a change."

It was good for me to do that and then after rehab, I understood that every reaction I had to people things or places was due to my choices, even when I was a youngster. That was freeing because I knew that I did not have to be a slave to anyone, any situation or any place.

Freedom!!!! Now: after that, the Gospel made so much more sense and I saw that victory is possible and that I did not ever again have to be a victim enslaved to anything.

Norman

[LifeHiscost]

Not everyone is "normal" and yet we're all here, we all have to learn to deal with each other on some level, etc.

I recall a group of people written up in the daily newspaper from Spokane,Washington, who took it upon themselves to begin personal effort for some disadvantaged young individuals who had some "abnormal" problems, (autism, mental retardation, downs syndrome, etc). After a number of years their success rate with the so-called disadvantaged was nothing short of phenomenal.

Although I can not remember the exact figures, to my best recall

approximately 98% progressed to the point of finishing highschool with acceptable average grade levels enableing them to join society as productive members. A healthy amount of them went so far as to graduate from college.

What made the difference? The willingness for certain members who used the gifts they were given plus the time and effort, to share motivational expertise for the sake of others not quite up to societal standards.

The primary reason there are disadvantaged is because the "advantaged" have not learned,

"I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive." Acts 20:35 KJV

Blessings!!

[LifeHiscost]

That was freeing because I knew that I did not have to be a slave to anyone, any situation or any place.

Freedom!!!! Now: after that, the Gospel made so much more sense and I saw that victory is possible and that I did not ever again have to be a victim enslaved to anything.

Norman

Good testimony Norman. Not too many people seem to grasp the fact that people who have not received the freedom that Jesus is all to willing to give them, are in bondage to ideas from the prince of darkness, and are inapable of receiving the light until someone gives them the love that releases their burdens in exchange for God's promises.

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36 KJV

Blessings!!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Originally Posted By: ChildOfGod4Ever

Not everyone is "normal" and yet we're all here, we all have to learn to deal with each other on some level, etc.

I recall a group of people written up in the daily newspaper from Spokane,Washington, who took it upon themselves to begin personal effort for some disadvantaged young individuals who had some "abnormal" problems, (autism, mental retardation, downs syndrome, etc).

Um, I'd like to point out here that autism comes in varying degrees. My brother is severely autistic with some mental retardation. His usual vocabulary consists of "I want sandwich" and "Good morning." Only recently, after about 6 months of working with him myself, have I been able to teach him, "Have a good night, sleep tight, and don't let the bedbugs bite." Which doesn't really mean anything to him, outside of "this is brother-sister time." He has no idea what a bed-bug is, nor the difference between night and day. He sometimes wants to say this in mid-afternoon. He stutters through everything.

I realize that you read a nice article, but I have to let you know that I'm easily offended by "hopeful figures" that make it seem like all such people can be worked with and be successful in life to some degree. The truth is that many can not. My brother is now 28, and still needs someone to wipe his rear-end in the bathroom. Not only is he incapable of understanding even what a Bible is, much less anything in it, but really, the concept of "God" is completely beyond him. Yes, I've talked with him about Jesus - but really, that kind of talk means nothing to him. He's still stuck on "do I punch a hole in the wall when I'm angry, or do I just scream my head off for hours on end?"

Sorry if that pours any rain on what you were saying. But it's hard-core truth, and it's a truth that I was trying to point out in the first place. My apologies for forgetting to mention the different levels of severity of autism (and also mental retardation). Anyway, some really are too deeply affected by these problems to be anything more than slightly (if even that) verbally/basic-needs-aware capable vegetables.

[LifeHiscost]

Sorry if that pours any rain on what you were saying. But it's hard-core truth, and it's a truth that I was trying to point out in the first place. My apologies for forgetting to mention the different levels of severity of autism (and also mental retardation). Anyway, some really are too deeply affected by these problems to be anything more than slightly (if even that) verbally/basic-needs-aware capable vegetables.

And I'm sorry you were offended at what probably apeared to be an oversimplification to some real hurtful experiences. While the example I drew attention to may have been dealing with the high end of effort put forward for the sake of some who would have been institutonalized had it not been for the self sacrificing efforts of a number of ordinary people with an extraordinary sense of purpose, the principle remains the same.

I happen to be married to a woman I've been in love with for the better part of 35 years. During those years she has had more than 11 major surgeries for an odd assortment of physical problems too long to go into detail about. The modern medical establishment has done the best they could for her wellbeing but in an effort to solve her problems they have provided pain relief that has made her ability to think clearly for more than a few unhurried moments almost impossible. Long ago if she had not been provided with a loving person to take her side for a quality of life not easily accessible, she would now be in a nursing home where often $4.50/hr help would have been all she could expect, which could have provided a tailspin into oblivion and probably an early death, considering her frail nature.

God does not often ask us to make another into a super achiever. Sometimes He just asks us to make a life better than it would have been if we were not there.

Most of us of the human race consider ourselves too important to do the little tasks that are necessary to make the disenfranchised see hope where they are. I'm of the opinion the ones who will find the greatest joy in heaven are those who see their dreams realized when those they helped, who were without hope on earth, are there in heaven because someone helped them grasp a picture of Jesus in the person to whom they were never capable of returning the favor.

God bless you in the efforts you make to this end.

"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?

And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me. " Matt 25:38-40 ASV

Blessings!!

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Tomorrow or Sunday I will add some comments to these 10 major irrational ideas. At that point if you wish to answer the two questions I posed, that would be great. There is some important information that I want to post which I believe is vital to read before answering those questions.

I am sorry that I did not do what I said I would. I will try again in the next couple of days. I have to discipline myself to type a page and well, yuck. But I will do it

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Here it is! The remainder of the thoughts I wanted to share.

please read carefully and answer the two questions I have asked earlier in this thread, if you wish.

Summing up. While taking good care to avoid needlessly and gratuitously hurting others, consistently try to remain you. On the one hand devote yourself self-interestedly to those pursuits to likely bring you satisfaction in your relatively brief span of life; and, on the other hand absorb yourself in people and things outside yourself because you truly enjoy them. Your paramount absorption can unashamedly consist of the fulfillment of you own desires, your morality of enlightened self interest. If you attain true self-interest, you will normally have a considerable degree of what Alfred Adler calls social interest because (1) your own interest, when you choose to live in a social group, involves consideration of other members of your; group and because (2) when you possess rational self interest (rather than irrational self-centeredness), you normally find pleasure in helping and caring for some other humans.

These, then, seem some of the most essential rules for a sound and intelligent life-a life based on knowledge and reason and dedicated to the proposition that through your reasoning powers you may best achieve a highly satisfying emotional existence. Will following these rules absolutely assure your living a maximally creative and happy life? Not necessarily; because, as we have several times noted in this book, some important intra- and interpersonal factors remain beyond your control.

Accidents and physical ailments occur. Environmental conditions sometimes bring severe frustration. War and famine, pestilence and destruction, still even in this relatively enlightened age, show their ugly fangs. But the human spirit when freed of ignorance and cant, has remarkable resiliency. However bowed and bent it may temporarily seem, it still may throw off its unthinking and conventionalist chains, and rise above some of the nastiest handicaps.

You as a human, potentially have that spirit. If you resolutely strive to think, fight and act, you can probably use it to good effect. If, after making a concerted effort to question your own basic premises and to propel yourself to act against your self-defeating habit patterns, you still find yourself beset by intense feelings of anxiety or hostility, you probably could use professional help. By all means, in theses circumstances, go for intensive therapy-even a little of which may prove enormously helpful.

If you do not feel to emotionally blocked or upset to benefit from the rational approach to living that we have outlined in this book, then try to see what you can do by working, working and (yes, everlastingly) working at it. Good luck- and good reasoning!