My Family

[Denise]

And Thank you COG4ever for sharing and being so open with us, I really admire that about you. It helps one to understand where that person is coming from, also to learn from you as well, and to really get to know a person. I enjoy reading your posts, you are a really sweet, honest, sincere person, and we will continue to pray for your healing. May God Bless you, and may you have a beautiful day today filled with God's love!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

And Thank you COG4ever for sharing and being so open with us, I really admire that about you. It helps one to understand where that person is coming from, also to learn from you as well, and to really get to know a person. I enjoy reading your posts, you are a really sweet, honest, sincere person, and we will continue to pray for your healing. May God Bless you, and may you have a beautiful day today filled with God's love!

Awwe Thank you! You just really brightened my day It especially helps to know that I'm able to make a difference just by being myself. Honestly, that might be the most important thing I ever do in this life...

You're very sweet for posting this and your other encouraging posts! And I really like that avatar of yours! It always makes me laugh

I hope to get to know you better :)

[Dr. Shane]

I came from a back-slidden Seventh-day Adventist home where both parents were alcoholics and all of us children were abused physically, spiritually and sexually. I had been to see a half dozen counselors by the time I was 18. I cannot stress enough the importance of choosing a Christian counselor. He or she doesn't have to be an Adventist. There are non-Christians that do a good job and there are Christian counselors that do a poor job. However the odds are against those that choose to go with secular counselors and the odds are favorable for those that choose a Christian counselor.

I had both and it was a Christian counselor that led me to the cross to heal my brokenness. When I realized my parents had abused me because they themselves were victims and their abuse of me was only a continuation of their own victimization, I was not only able to forgive them but have compassion on them.

Healthy people do not abuse other people. Since we are all sinners, we all are unhealthy to some degree and abuse others to some degree. That is why I stay away from the term "emotional abuse". When I am having a bad day, I have emotionally abused cashiers at the grocery store. If we are all honest, I think each of us have been guilty of emotionally abusing others. Yet when we get into spiritual, physical and sexual abuse we really find it is unhealthy people that abuse others. In fact, victims of abuse quite often repeat the same or similar behavior. Once I started getting help, I realized there was a list of people I had to make amends to.

It is a long journey. A couple of my sisters chose secular counselors that really messed them up bad. One of them, finally quit going to her counselor after eight years and later realized how much he had messed up her thinking. The other sister still goes to a secular counselor and she has cut off ties with our mother and all except two siblings (there are 12 of us).

By the grace of God I am being the father and husband to my wife and kids that I believe God wants me to be. I expect the end of the abuse cycle is going to end with me. My children see their father's smile, feel his tender hugs, know his approval and see him cherish their mother as his queen. That is the result of Christian counseling with a willing and humble patient. I pray your experience will be as fruitful.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

I've avoided mentioning which kind of counselor I'm going to because I don't agree with the idea that Christian counselors are always better. Psychology is what it is, and secular psychology has, in large, come to a place where it is reasonable for the needs in my family's situation. In fact, when left in the wrong "Christian" or "Adventist" hands, psychology can be a very dangerous thing (if they don't rightly understand the Gospel, and think that it's all works-based or shame-based). Sometimes "because Jesus said to be nice" isn't the reason for why parents should stop abusing their kids, whereas "because you don't want your kids to get abused" is. It doesn't take a Christian therapist to help parents figure that one out - it's not rocket-science: it's reality.

All that said, first of all, the counselor we're going to is an Adventist counselor who I've been to before, I like, and I think has a fairly good understanding of both the Gospel and of just flat out normal (or abnormal) human psychology in any context (be it Christian, Buddhist...) I really appreciate the good advice she's given me in the past, regarding ways to deal with my parents. Unfortunately, applying that advice is difficult because most of it was given at a time when I wasn't living with them, and I now am.

That change in dynamics almost throws all her former advice out the window (almost, but not completely), and it's pretty much time to work through the real issues between me and my mom rather than simply "Let it go, forget about it, find something you enjoy in life, try to make money at it, and be glad you don't live with her all the time anymore." I now live with her, and it's time to do the real work in this family.

I know it's a temptation for some of you to say "Just move out and forget about them." First of all, I still don't have the money to do that, which my parents both are using as leverage here, as they continually threaten to kick me out when I don't perform up to their lofty standards/demands. Secondly, this family situation has just gone so completely out of whack that it honestly hurts me to think of just allowing it to remain this way.

There comes a point in human existence where you simply call in the fire-department rather than allow your own house to continue burning down - just grabbing your boots on the way out into the snow-storm and never looking back isn't enough. It might seem pointless, but really, I don't think it is. If nothing else, I'm hoping this little "exercise in futility" will at least teach my mom that it's ok even for her, as well as everyone else, to not be perfect all the time, and also to be able to take "no" for an answer, and not assume bad things about others.

I don't intend to live here forever. I've wanted to be gone for a long time. If I had the money, I would not be living here. It's been suggested that I want some knight in shining armor to save me, and I've addressed that here and privately as well, but I want to reiterate that here: first of all, my having ever wanted marriage was not wrong - it was a good, healthy, and normal thing that shouldn't have been abused the way it was. Secondly, I've never wanted my need for independence to be a reason for becoming dependent on someone else! I've, in the past, simply wanted to honestly be in love with a man who was in love with me, for real, etc. And I don't think that was wrong.

What was wrong was my allowing myself to be treated like I wasn't the most special, wonderful, and beautiful woman in the world - or getting angry and hurt by it when I wasn't being treated that way (because of the void my parents created in me). Meaning that I hadn't yet learned that I already am these things whether I'm dating or not, and it's simply when men in my life don't treat me that way that it's time to say "I only want friendship, at arm's length, thanks."

Instead, I used to try to fix things, because the "void" made me uncomfortable and I attached all my value to whether they were treating me right or not. It hadn't yet occurred to me that some men are just honestly blind to seeing good things in others. And those men just took advantage of this blind spot. It's not that I attract the wrong men. It's more like 90% of the men in my age category or younger are so blessedly unhealthy to begin with: it's like playing Russian Roulette with only one bullet-hole empty. All of us women, healthy or not, face this "game" when we enter the dating scene, and need to see it for what it is, realize that many men out there are unhealthier than we are to begin with (many do have undiagnosed or unrecognizable mental health issues and are freely roaming the world, even in business suites and even as workers in the church), and that we can't blame ourselves for "attracting the wrong men." We are only responsible for learning the key signs of unhealthy men and learning that while arm's length friendship is actually the safest (because avoiding them completely draws them to us in unwanted ways), but dating them is just a no-no.

Yes, the wrong men easily target abuse victims, and yes, healthier men tend to avoid women who've been abused because they don't have the plums to deal with us and really love us, but neither of those is the abused woman's fault. Yes, I have the "responsibility" to deal with my own psychological stuff for myself, for my own good. But I will say here that I'm tired the idea that it's somehow my fault that I've been treated this way. It's really not. I never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to treat me like that.

One thing I've learned is to stay away from dating men who whine, complain, and judge others. Another is to avoid men who treat others in their lives better than they treat me, or who otherwise don't spend an appropriate amount of quality time with me to begin with. Men who make the conversation all about them and their point of view, and don't care to hear out or validate mine, are another kind to avoid. And, men who don't take the time to form a real friendship with me first, for at least a month or two (I'd prefer longer though, as I've seen for myself that it can take that long before I can see if I really want to date a man or not), on a non-romantic level (even if they are interested in me) that doesn't demand my romantic attention "because now we're in a relationship - that's what you signed up for here", are yet another to stay away from.

None of this was taught to me in our schools in elementary, junior high, or academy, much less in church or Sabbath Schools. I wish it had been.

[Guest charis]

This might be ..... but gonna say it anyway..

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One thing I've learned is to stay away from dating men who whine, complain, and judge others.

Likewise, men don't want to date women who whine, complain, and judge others.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

This might be ..... but gonna say it anyway..

Quote:

One thing I've learned is to stay away from dating men who whine, complain, and judge others.

Likewise, men don't want to date women who whine, complain, and judge others.

I agree completely :)

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

You know, I can't help thinking that just plain healthy vs. unhealthy human psychology ought to be added to our curriculum, and not even have it be within the context of "situations" like family situations or dating situations. I mean, if our kids just grew up knowing how to be healthy individuals in the first place, and how to deal with unhealthy individuals in healthy ways... I can only barely imagine with my limited imagination what kind of church we'd be raising. I mean, seriously, human psychology is key to pretty much everything, especially our relationships with each other, but most importantly with God. And when we can recognize that human psychology is about the mind and heart, and not about our works being judged as always reflecting the nature of our hearts (which they don't always: many God-Loving people still sometimes give in to temptations - especially emotional-to-physical ones, because they're human beings, not because they somehow hate God), then we'll have taken a huge step in the right direction.

[Denise]

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It especially helps to know that I'm able to make a difference just by being myself. Honestly, that might be the most important thing I ever do in this life...

You know, I love people to be just themselves, they are being honest and open, and I like that! Doesn't God want and like us to be ourselves? I know He does....He can work with us more if we are open and honest with ourselves....He accepts us as we are and works with us! This experience I have had with our loving, compassionate, understanding and accepting God....He accepts me as I am....and that way....I can grow to love and trust Him, and change into his likeness more each day...

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And I really like that avatar of yours! It always makes me laugh

Why thank you! I picked out the pic, and Melia fixed it up for me the way I wanted it.

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I hope to get to know you better

Awwwwww....and I really hope to get to know you better as well! God Bless you!!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Originally Posted By: ChildOfGod4Ever

It especially helps to know that I'm able to make a difference just by being myself. Honestly, that might be the most important thing I ever do in this life...

You know, I love people to be just themselves, they are being honest and open, and I like that! Doesn't God want and like us to be ourselves? I know He does....He can work with us more if we are open and honest with ourselves....He accepts us as we are and works with us! This experience I have had with our loving, compassionate, understanding and accepting God....He accepts me as I am....and that way....I can grow to love and trust Him, and change into his likeness more each day...

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

if our kids just grew up knowing how to be healthy individuals in the first place, and how to deal with unhealthy individuals in healthy ways... I can only barely imagine with my limited imagination what kind of church we'd be raising.

I think AA was a real God-send in my life as I entered the program when only 15 years old and it was there, in a large part, I learned how to be healthy and deal with those that are not healthy.

Having been around AA groups for over 20 years, I have not only my own experience but that I have observed with others. From what I have observed, those seeking help from Christian counselors and clergy members normally find much more success than from the secular world, much of which is pop-psychology - which often does more harm than good.

I am glad you are hooked up with a believing counselor. She will most likely help a lot. If you are still in the abusive situation, she is likely going to advise you to leave. After the wounds are healed and forgiveness has happened, some victims grow to the point where they can be around the abuse again without being victimized by it. I would like to think I am at that point. I know of abuse victims that are members of Al-anon that do heal while living in the abusive situation but they are exceptional people. I am not sure I would have been able to do the same.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

One thing I want to clarify: it's not that I'm currently allowing myself to be a victim of anything. It's more like I'm finally dealing, emotionally, with how I was victimized, what personality problems this ingrained into me that have been under a lot of work (for instance, I no longer just assume that God will say "No" when I Ask Him for things, I no longer assume I'll be abused, etc), and how my having had those problems affected my social life, my dating life, etc. I've been grieving the losses that resulted in the past because of the affects of being abused.

Are my parents still abusive? Yes. But I no longer believe their lies about me. I Know who I am, I Know my value, I know Who's I am... When I said that I don't have much of a self-esteem, well, first of all, that was how I was feeling and it was true because this is what happens to me when I'm so depressed about something that I actually reach out and ask for help/prayer. In the last few days, God has been Answering all of your prayers: I truly have had some serious weights lifted from my shoulders that have been there for my whole life. And the truth is, this protects me from feeling the affects of my parents' abusive attitudes.

For example, when everything went down the other night, mom told a rather big whopper about a past event that we all knew about, and all knew she was lying. She still hasn't apologized for this, because she simply can't accept it that she's not perfect, she lied about something... Anyway, after a couple of times that this started to bother me, and I had to tell myself each time to "let it go and just treat her the way I would if it hadn't happened," well, it's gotten much easier to do that. Things are getting better between us. Should she apologize? Of course! But she never will if she can't trust me to be someone she can apologize to. <--- That's the key to forgiveness, which is why human psychology is so important. <---

Anyway, I feel like an "evolved" person for having gone through this experience. I'm still not thrilled with my parents treating me badly, of course. Um, I don't think that's what Jesus was asking for. I'm just not letting this bother me - nor affect me in my future relationships. I've learned to not expect to be pounced on by everyone out there, and that it's worth it to treat others with dignity, respect, love, trust, forgiveness, and affection. No one can take that from me - not even my parents. Sure, I don't trust them.

And of course I don't want to live with them. I haven't since I was 21, and the few years I spent away from them before I (financially) had to live with them again were just about the best thing for me. I learned what it means to live as independently as possible. The only problem I had back then was sheer loneliness, even when I was involved with church activities (those don't cure loneliness at home). But even in that, I've learned (since then) how to be content by myself and not be all freaked out about it. It does help that I have my own room. It's a granny-unit, with it's own bathroom, and enough room for my PC and a TV/DVD/radio, my art desk, and some books. So, it's almost like having my own apartment away from them. We only share a kitchen, living room, and dining room.

It's when we wind up interacting in the shared living areas that things go crazy - with them. Seriously, I've just been learning to see their nuttiness for what it is, name it that, and not let it bother me too much. The purpose of the counseling is really more for mom than for me (though my counseling separately continues). She's got a LOT of issues to work out that she doesn't even know she has, and really, I can't think of her as a "mom" until she's worked through those enough to actually be a "mom" to me without "mothering" me, whether I live with her or not.

My worst nightmare has been my future wedding someday, should I choose to wed (I've put more thought into that, I'm thinking someday I might like to, if/when a healthy relationship happens). She's taken over every other event in my life, ruined them all for me (because she didn't care what I wanted), and then blamed me for my wishing things had been different... I want her to work through her issues so that, first of all, when that man meets her, she won't be a nightmare for him and me both (she'll just be a normal, functional, imperfect person like the rest of us), and she won't destroy what's supposed to be the happiest day of my and his life.

I do know that the worst thing I could do on that day would be to let her get to me and take any happiness from me. But seriously, when you put that much time, effort, money, thought and love into a special day like that, the last thing you need is "whirl-wind mom" to "come to the rescue" because things aren't happening the way she wants them to happen for "her" little girl... At some point in time, "mom" has to learn to BACK OFF and just play a supporting role rather than a domineering role and let her adult daughter have the ONE THING in her life that means almost more to her than anything else.

I say "almost" because, yes, there really are more important things in life than a wedding day going smoothly. But that's blessedly hard to keep in perspective while your dressed to the nines in a white dress and tight corset, trying to see through this veil on your head, trying not to cry either from love, nervousness, or laughter (or all 3), hoping things will go the way you have intended for the last 6 months (really, your whole life)... And then "mom" comes along and just does her thing like she always has... Do you see what I mean? It's forgivable, true, but why in the world should it have to happen like that in the first place, when it could (hopefully) have been avoided with some solid advice given by a trained counselor?

Ok, now I'm getting off-topic, yet, well, it still makes my point. Mom definitely needs counseling. I suppose I do too, and I need to keep learning to forgive her abusive nature at all times. I shouldn't have to worry about the happiest day of my life, nor about that future relationship with a man I'd marry at all. Nor should I be burdened with all this stuff with my family the way I have been in "every-day" mode. That's not what I was put on this planet for.

[Denise]

Thanks for sharing your heart with us...... God loves you sooo much, and so do I.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Thanks for sharing your heart with us...... God loves you sooo much, and so do I.

Thank you Right back atcha!

Also, as a side note: my IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) has come back after 9 years of general dormancy, and I think it's a result of all the stress this whole little "episode" has caused me. So that needs prayer. It's been getting under control, but I'm unable to attend a Bible study tonight at a friend's house because of it (and how utterly sleepy it's made me, though I am increasing my fluids/fiber intake). Thanks in advance for taking this matter to God.

[Denise]

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Thanks in advance for taking this matter to God.

Your welcome! We will be praying for you on this!!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Thanks :)

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Hi everyone! Just an update. Mom and I had our first counseling session today. Things went well, we unraveled a lot of things, made some agreements, and I was shown how to deal with abusive situations when they come up, and was given a lot of other useful advice. I'm feeling a lot better as a person than I ever did before. And validated. That counselor told mom flat out how she's never going to have her idea of the perfect daughter, and that that's ok. She also told her how I've been feeling judged. Anyway, there's a lot of progress being made here, even if it's all "baby steps." It still needs prayer, but yeah, things are finally heading in a more positive direction.

[Nan]

May this be the beginning of a helpful journey for both of you.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

May this be the beginning of a helpful journey for both of you.

Thank you It's an hour by hour thing, yet overall, I just feel better. More empowered to just be myself and know that that's ok, and that it's going to be appreciated. And who I am in the first place is a loving, caring person. It's just not the way she expected it to be. She's demanded things of me that I couldn't give her as her daughter, and only now is she being told that she has to ask me for those things, with the option of my saying no. Now she's being told that she has to accept the way I do thins as, for one, being my honest effort, and for another, being ok the way they are and not always needing to be changed or criticized by her.

Also, I've been told that I can ask her for good things, like little notes telling me nice things about myself or thanking me for doing something she liked. Um, I don't feel totally alright with having to ask her for that. I mean, all I know is that I was already planning on doing that for my kids someday (unless they asked me not to or something) - I've just assumed that a loving mom would want to do that for her kids and just would do it, and wouldn't need to be asked. She's already done that for at least one other person, not even a family member, who she was "ministering" to.

I've had a hard time understanding why she couldn't do that for me. I've asked her in the past why she did that and she just said, "Well, she's a good person. You haven't been a good daughter." Even without that part of the saga, it still feels weird for me to have to ask for that from my own mother. Shouldn't it pretty much be a given that she would just want to do that if she had that much affection for me? Anyone who's got some advice on that, please feel free to chime in. Have I been unrealistic in my thought process there? Anyway, I've been told I can ask for things like that, so I'm going to, since otherwise I'm not going to get them.

The long story short, we're trying to take this one day at a time, and the overall goal is that mom learns that it's ok for others to not be her idea of perfection. Also, she puts way too much pressure on herself to be that ideal. And she does it to a lot of other people too. The goal is for her to learn to back away and know that she might have a point, but she doesn't have any business forcing it onto others, when she thinks she's right about something. Also, that her way isn't the only right way, and that it's ok for others to be individuals and not fear that because they aren't just like her, that they're doomed to living bad lives or something.

My main goal is to let myself be my loving self to her, and forgive her when she doesn't reach her goals, and encourage her that she can do better next time. Basically, my goal is to model forgiving imperfectionism for her. I'm just glad she has the right goals now. It was killing our whole family before when she didn't have them. She wouldn't believe anyone in this family when we tried to tell her "nobody's perfect and that's ok." Since a counselor finally got that through to her, I think things are going to be a little easier for me at any rate, from now on. I think in the end, things will be easier for her too.