What's the next step in going home?

[Neil D]

Ok, i was thinking this morning...about prophecy and the future. I was wondering what you all thought would be the next step for us, [us meaning the literal followers of Christ] to happen for us to go home....

Now, I would like to see your thoughts, and not just bible texts or EGW statements. and if you must post those texts and EGW statements, try to keep them to just ONE paragraph. Anything more, just summerize it....P L E A S E !!!! I just want opinions and thoughts...we are not here to pass judgement on anyone or any thing.

And yes, I know about Sunday laws and such, but I was wondering what you thought would happen before that...Does the great wall of china have to come down? Do the nations of Islam have to extert more influence in political affairs? Does Adventist movement have to have a political person in office? Will radical

Adventism become a terrorist threat? Do you have to see the grand canyon before Christ comes???

Any thoughts would be great.....

[Amelia]

Seems to me that everyone has to hear the word of Christ before anything else can happen, right? Well untouched peoples are still being discovered in places like the Amazon jungle. They haven't heard a thing yet.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I've kinda wondered along those same lines.

**ponders**

Is there any place on earth where people do NOT have access to gospel? I mean, not "have they actually HEARD the message"... but do they have ACCESS? I read somewhere that there is no place on earth anymore where radio/internet/TV by satellite is not *beamed*...

I think the 2nd coming is closer than most people would think... I think the Laeodicean church is going to have a wake-up call that cannot be ignored. I think the wake-up call is going to involve a sudden *removing the veil* from the eyes of Christians and non-Christians - that they will see the importance of many spiritual concepts that they had heretofore not given much thought or had even scoffed at.

I also think the Adventist church needs a ....ummm...... shaking. We need to clean house. Set aside the distractions that lead to unchristian-like behavior. I think people sometimes bind the *hands* of the Holy Spirit, to the point where He is just waiting for ones to come along whom He can work with/through.

Just imho.

[Amelia]

Quote:

I also think the Adventist church needs a ....ummm...... shaking.

I do believe there is to be a "shaking" of the church.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Well, the way I look at it is one that simplifies things for me:

1. I'm Saved already by the Unlimitably Offered Grace and Love of God.

2. I happen to know this pre-2nd-Coming.

3. I have nothing to fear (See #1 & 2).

4. I appreciate this enough to bother talking about it whenever I can.

5. I don't shove this knowledge down anyone's throats.

6. It's ultimately up to God to get His own Word out, and to those who don't know or don't "get it" - they are "a law unto themselves."

7. Whether Jesus can come back before every eye has Seen the Truth and every ear has Heard the Word, really isn't for me to say or try to prove: it's up to God.

8. This whole "Great Controversy" is really God's thing to begin with anyway, and I Trust Him to ultimately take Care of the whole thing, since I'm a mere mortal and can only "do" so much in the first place, so, beyond that...

9. I'm just enjoying, as best I know how, the Free and Saved Life that I've been Granted free and clear, and Trusting God to take Care of my Life.

10. To me, that's "the next step" in going Home.

*Grins* I Love Spiritual Logic

We can run around in circles all we like, trying to do our best, be our best, and understand everything under the sun as best as possible, placing heavy, burdensome yokes on our own shoulders... Or, we can just leave it all and ourselves up to God, follow our hearts instead of our human-logic, and just enjoy being ourselves as our lives move forward under His Leading, the way the Good Lord Intended.

[John317]

Quote:

I also think the Adventist church needs a ....ummm...... shaking.

I do believe there is to be a "shaking" of the church.

The "shaking" in the church will result from persecution and from the false teachings that God will allow into the SDA church. 5 T 472-475; 3 SM 385

The "tares" will be shaken out of the church, and their place will be taken by people who respond to the Third Angels' Messages and are "shaken" into the church. The majority of SDAs who are in the church when the persecution begins will turn against their former SDA brothers and sisters. 7 BC 967; PT 1 April 1850; 5 T 80 RH 26 November 1861; YI 3 August 1893; EW 269-271; EGW 1888 166; RH 8 November 1892; GC 602; RH 20 November 1913.

A great source of study on this topic is found in The Shape of the Coming Crisis: A Sequence of end-time events based on the writings of Ellen G. White, by Donald Ernest Mansell.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

I once knew an Adventist young couple who got married in 1999, because they had been friends for 14 years, since childhood, and were afraid that Jesus would come back in 2000 and that they wouldn't be able to marry anyone after He came back...

They got divorced 3 years later.

Honestly, I have to believe that it's unwise to plan your whole life, or major life's decisions, around an event that you can't control, you don't know when it will happen, and you're only fairly sure that you understand what's going to happen. And as for that old "potato farm" story - erm, you know something? The dude got lucky. Sure, it's all God's plan and such, but was it also God's plan for everyone else to loose out the way they did, because of how they exercised their faith in their honest beliefs? Sometimes, we have to just take our chances in life, one way or the other, and take personal responsibility for the effects of our own choices...

Those of you who are into Star Trek, I invite you to re-watch "All Good Things" (final TNG episode, the part where the captain and crew were all siting in the lounge trying to analyze "Q"). Please consider the all-mind-bending question, "Do I want to hide in a hole and hope not to do anything wrong (or conversely, go running all over the place, and try to do everything perfectly, including out-guess God's plans), or am I going to just go about my daily business and know that if I do what seems right at the time, in the end, I'm going to be OK?"

Oh lands, you know, when I put it like that, I'm preaching at myself too, in regards to all kinds of things in my personal life, *snickers*

[John317]

I once knew an Adventist young couple who got married in 1999, because they had been friends for 14 years, since childhood, and were afraid that Jesus would come back in 2000 and that they wouldn't be able to marry anyone after He came back...

They got divorced 3 years later.

Honestly, I have to believe that it's unwise to plan your whole life, or major life's decisions, around an event that you can't control, you don't know when it will happen, and you're only fairly sure that you understand what's going to happen. And as for that old "potato farm" story - erm, you know something? The dude got lucky. Sure, it's all God's plan and such, but was it also God's plan for everyone else to loose out the way they did, because of how they exercised their faith in their honest beliefs? Sometimes, we have to just take our chances in life, one way or the other, and take personal responsibility for the effects of our own choices...

Those of you who are into Star Trek, I invite you to re-watch "All Good Things" (final TNG episode, the part where the captain and crew were all siting in the lounge trying to analyze "Q"). Please consider the all-mind-bending question, "Do I want to hide in a hole and hope not to do anything wrong (or conversely, go running all over the place, and try to do everything perfectly, including out-guess God's plans), or am I going to just go about my daily business and know that if I do what seems right at the time, in the end, I'm going to be OK?"

Oh lands, you know, when I put it like that, I'm preaching at myself too, in regards to all kinds of things in my personal life, *snickers*

I happen to agree with most of what you said here. I really believe that we should plan as if we have our whole life to live on this earth but we should live as if Jesus were were going to come tomorrow.

Living as if Jesus is going to come tomorrow doesn't mean being afraid to make a mistake. It means living right with God by faith. God would rather have us make a few mistakes than be inactive due to fear of making a mistake. He wants us to live our lives to the fullest and reach our full potential.

Henry James, one of America's greatest writers, wrote a wonderful, long short story (or short novel) called, "The Beast In the Jungle." It's a rather difficult story to read because of James' marvellously complex narrative style.

Anyway, in the story the main character waits and waits for something really big to happen. He spends his whole life trying to discover what it is. He waits all his life. He has a lady friend as his "guide" to help him find out what he's waiting for. But at last he finds out too late-- after his "guide's" death-- that the thing he had been waiting for had been staring him in the face the whole time, and he didn't even know it. It was to experience love and a life together with the woman who served as his "guide", but he didn't recognize it because he'd had his eyes all that time set on "something really big." Just so, I think we can get so focussed on big future events that we may neglect or not even see the small responsibilities and the gifts that God has placed right under of our noses.

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Originally Posted By: ChildOfGod4Ever

I once knew an Adventist young couple who got married in 1999, because they had been friends for 14 years, since childhood, and were afraid that Jesus would come back in 2000 and that they wouldn't be able to marry anyone after He came back...

They got divorced 3 years later.

Honestly, I have to believe that it's unwise to plan your whole life, or major life's decisions, around an event that you can't control, you don't know when it will happen, and you're only fairly sure that you understand what's going to happen. And as for that old "potato farm" story - erm, you know something? The dude got lucky. Sure, it's all God's plan and such, but was it also God's plan for everyone else to loose out the way they did, because of how they exercised their faith in their honest beliefs? Sometimes, we have to just take our chances in life, one way or the other, and take personal responsibility for the effects of our own choices...

Those of you who are into Star Trek, I invite you to re-watch "All Good Things" (final TNG episode, the part where the captain and crew were all siting in the lounge trying to analyze "Q"). Please consider the all-mind-bending question, "Do I want to hide in a hole and hope not to do anything wrong (or conversely, go running all over the place, and try to do everything perfectly, including out-guess God's plans), or am I going to just go about my daily business and know that if I do what seems right at the time, in the end, I'm going to be OK?"

Oh lands, you know, when I put it like that, I'm preaching at myself too, in regards to all kinds of things in my personal life, *snickers*

I happen to agree with most of what you said here. I really believe that we should plan as if we have our whole life to live on this earth but we should live as if Jesus were were going to come tomorrow.

Living as if Jesus is going to come tomorrow doesn't mean being afraid to make a mistake. It means living right with God by faith. God would rather have us make a few mistakes than be inactive due to fear of making a mistake. He wants us to live our lives to the fullest and reach our full potential.

Henry James, one of America's greatest writers, wrote a wonderful, long short story (or short novel) called, "The Beast In the Jungle." It's a rather difficult story to read because of James' marvellously complex narrative style.

Anyway, in the story the main character waits and waits for something really big to happen. He spends his whole life trying to discover what it is. He waits all his life. He has a lady friend as his "guide" to help him find out what he's waiting for. But at last he finds out too late-- after his "guide's" death-- that the thing he had been waiting for had been staring him in the face the whole time, and he didn't even know it. It was to experience love and a life together with the woman who served as his "guide", but he didn't recognize it because he'd had his eyes all that time set on "something really big." Just so, I think we can get so focussed on big future events that we may neglect or not even see the small responsibilities and the gifts that God has placed right under of our noses.

I agree completely. It's even more profound when we realize the we are also gifts and responsibilities, not only of God's, but also of each other. And that that's ok - in fact, as Brothers and Sisters under our Dad, it's supposed to be that way, and we're supposed to be able to Trust in each other to be that to each other and treat each other that way. It's all about God's Love being Shared between Him and us, and us and each other, which encourages us to continue sharing it with Him.

[LifeHiscost]

Just imho.

I'm of the opinion that your opinion makes a lot of sense. However being restricted from using the Scripture to base those opinions on,they are just that, only opinions. IMO

[LifeHiscost]

A great source of study on this topic is found in The Shape of the Coming Crisis: A Sequence of end-time events based on the writings of Ellen G. White, by Donald Ernest Mansell.

I highly recommend this book. However, just as in all books that do not verify the balanced findings in the Holy Scripture, it leaves a lot of fear and trepidation for the less knowledgable of the Word.

Regards!!

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Just imho.

I'm of the opinion that your opinion makes a lot of sense. However being restricted from using the Scripture to base those opinions on,they are just that, only opinions. IMO

IMHO, the Spirit moves today too I think it's alright for us to express differing personal opinions - usually, there's still some common thread in them all, even if they are coming from different vantage points.

[Planey]

When I was much younger I was told to "plan for your life as if you were looking forward to a full-length life. Live as if Jesus was returning today."

Seemed to work for me. When I was a kid attending primary school (elementary school?) I though the Lord would come before I had time to get married. I did get married though and now have a teenage granddaughter. I also have a body weakened by various medical conditions and believe there is a good chance I may be well and truly deceased before the Second Advent.

The advice of living each day as if Jesus' arrival was imminent has served me well.

Graeme

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

"plan for your life as if you were looking forward to a full-length life. Live as if Jesus was returning today."

Excellent advice, IMO

I must admit that it is frustrating when I share my plans for the future with someone and they interrupt me to say, Oh the Lord will come back before then.

The next step I see is the gospel going to all the world and a big part of that is Adventist media in Africa and Latin America and Adventists in the developed world losing their fear to share their faith. Those in the third world have the courage but lack the tools. Those in the developed world have the tools but lack the courage.

[Neil D]

Seems to me that everyone has to hear the word of Christ before anything else can happen, right? Well untouched peoples are still being discovered in places like the Amazon jungle. They haven't heard a thing yet.

Ok, I gotta ask this question....Since we agree that most of the modern world has heard of the Gospel, the question that I have is this....why do those who are hidden in the jungles need to hear the gospel especially since the most of the modern world has heard the story? Surely, in the Gospel history [aka history of the gospel], there are others who have heard the gospel when our ancesters were in the same position as current tribes of Amazon? Why does the Gospel need to be heard by every person? Doesn't God know the hearts of the individuals? Why does this have to be fulfilled in the absolute fullest sense?

[Amelia]

Free will. They have to choose?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Since we agree that most of the modern world has heard of the Gospel

I don't agree with this assumption at all. In my missionary work I run into people all the time that know nothing about the gospel. They don't know about even the most basic Bible stories like Adam & Eve, Moses, Daniel & the Lions or the Birth of Jesus. Everyone I have contact with has heard of Jesus but many know nothing about Him. Many believe He is dead as they have never even heard the story of the resurrection.

This is not limited to just Mexico either. When I was in college I dated a girl that knew nothing either. When I told her she needed a relationship with Jesus she replied by tell me He was dead. She had never heard the story of the resurrection either.

[Neil D]

Free will. They have to choose?

I truely don't understand this......

What's to choose? The good will triumph over evil, and most all will choose good over evil, even in thier own lives....and even the most world conquering despot will say that he is good. They will even choose to have Jesus over thier lives...so I ask again, in complete non-understanding, what is to choose?

[ChildOfGod4Ever]

I'm guessing that just because the broadcasts are beamed all over the world, that doesn't mean that everyone in the world is even receiving them (or even has the ability to). Also, there is a lot of -misinformation- about all-things-Biblical that flies around all the time, in any land/language/culture/family. Just because someone's heard the name "Jesus" that doesn't mean they really have a clue in the world what He's actually all about.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm guessing that just because the broadcasts are beamed all over the world, that doesn't mean that everyone in the world is even receiving them (or even has the ability to). Also, there is a lot of -misinformation- about all-things-Biblical that flies around all the time, in any land/language/culture/family. Just because someone's heard the name "Jesus" that doesn't mean they really have a clue in the world what He's actually all about.

I think this is kind of a distracting line of thinking. The Holy Spirit has the power and ability to bring whatever light is needed to these people who may not have personal access to the gospel. The Holy Spirit also has the power and authority to separate fact and fiction about Jesus. To think that everyone in the whole wide world will have a complete and accurate idea of who Jesus is and what He did is foolhardy. imho It gives people (Christians) a false sense of security... i.e, Jesus won't come yet because not everyone in the whole world knows about Him...yadda yadda yadda.

My harkening cry is BEWARE. Be prepared. imho

By the way, is the Bible a map of how to get to heaven? Is it a description of what heaven is? Or is it a masterpiece of writing intended to help us live in such a way that will bring the most happiness and comfort to a fallen humanity in a shell-shocked world on our journey to Christ?

Neil wrote:

Quote:

Why does the Gospel need to be heard by every person? Doesn't God know the hearts of the individuals? Why does this have to be fulfilled in the absolute fullest sense?

I dont think it does. But I have no scripture or EGW quote to back me up.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I'm guessing that just because the broadcasts are beamed all over the world, that doesn't mean that everyone in the world is even receiving them

I agree. What really makes Adventist media effective is when Adventists share it with other people they have established relationships with. An Adventist that has a satellite dish is in a position to invite their friends to watch crusades with them. They can make it a joyful event by hosting it with snacks and answering any questions their guests may have about what is being taught. Few Adventists in the developing world have that kind of opportunity and few in the developed world have that kind of courage.

[LifeHiscost]

they have never even heard the story of the resurrection.

She had never heard the story of the resurrection either.

Wow!! Something like that would change the whole dynamics of a persons hope in the future, whether or not they had heard of Jesus. Gives one pause when considering whether our personal testimony of our relation to Jesus is important to the persons we have only superficial contact with. Surely it reveals the necessity to share the gospel to anyone. Leave to God whether they will react favorably to the information.

"...and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. " 1 Cor 15:17-20 ASV

"Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching. " 2 Tim 4:2 AMP

Regards!!

[LifeHiscost]

...and even the most world conquering despot will say that he is good. They will even choose to have Jesus over thier lives...so I ask again, in complete non-understanding, what is to choose?

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." Luke 18:19

KJV

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV

"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 John 5:12 NKJV

Regards!!

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

...and even the most world conquering despot will say that he is good. They will even choose to have Jesus over thier lives...so I ask again, in complete non-understanding, what is to choose?

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." Luke 18:19

KJV

[Neil D]

Quote:

Since we agree that most of the modern world has heard of the Gospel

I don't agree with this assumption at all. In my missionary work I run into people all the time that know nothing about the gospel. They don't know about even the most basic Bible stories like Adam & Eve, Moses, Daniel & the Lions or the Birth of Jesus. Everyone I have contact with has heard of Jesus but many know nothing about Him. Many believe He is dead as they have never even heard the story of the resurrection.

[snip]

I am a bit confused here, Shane....Are you saying that people all over the world need to know the bible and Jesus [which equates to knowing Jesus which equates to being saved] or are you saying that in addition to making a stand for Jesus, they need to know the bible?

My understanding is that to make a stand for Jesus, there does NOT have to be a knowing of the Gospel or what Jesus has done. Remember, there will be some who will ask Jesus " What are these scars on your hands?", or are you thinking that those individuals are only people who came into existance before Jesus's first advent? [My understanding is that there will be those who will ask and they are people who have come into existance before and after Christ's first advent. ]