Women aren't attracted to men.

[Neil D]

These are not merely my personal opinions but are largely the result of studying books written by female psychologists. For instance, see a very interesting book entitled, Brain Sex, which concerns the differences between the male and female brain, based on recent studies of the development of the brain.

And, John,...apparently your studys agree with the origional poster.....Females sell themselves to the highest and secure-ist bidder....Guys are just loving the bodies of women, and women want security....along with a lot of minor other small factors that figure into the mix....right?

[John317]

Ladies, how much credence do we give to the explanations for our actions originating with the males? Are they qualified to give an opinion?? :S

Are women qualified to give an opinion explaining men's actions? Yes, I am willing to consider your opinion. In fact, I would like to know what your opinion is regarding the difference between men and women in choosing a mate. I have a 19 year old daughter who has a boy friend and may be deciding to get married in the next few years, so I have reason to be interested in this subject.

[monica]

Well, a woman's good looks will fade and a man's fat wallet... will normally grow fatter.

Right. On the other hand, not all girls are beautiful, but all men are able to fatten their wallet. So, women are not as demanding as men.

[Dr. Shane]

I am not sure how I feel about cosmetic surgery. It is easy to say it is vanity but... there are a lot of things that are vanity. Some say we should be happy with the way God created us. Yet, we are all far from the perfection that Adam and Eve were created in. It does cost a lot of money that could be better used for other things. That is the biggest issue for me.

I am sensitive to a woman's self-esteem issues. However a lot of women that want to look better could do a lot just by losing weight, changing their wardrobe and learning how to use make-up so it looks nice and natural. Cosmetic surgery for a woman's self-esteem issues, to me, is much more acceptable than because her husband wants a more attractive wife. A man looking for a more attractive wife is not likely to be pacified with a cosmetic surgery for long.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

These are not merely my personal opinions but are largely the result of studying books written by female psychologists. For instance, see a very interesting book entitled, Brain Sex, which concerns the differences between the male and female brain, based on recent studies of the development of the brain.

And, John,...apparently your studys agree with the origional poster.....Females sell themselves to the highest and secure-ist bidder....Guys are just loving the bodies of women, and women want security....along with a lot of minor other small factors that figure into the mix....right?

Well, the original poster said a lot of things I would disagree with. First off, I don't agree that women are not attracted to men, nor would I describe it the way you have here.

You've managed to reduce the complexities of the differences between male and female to their lowest common denominators. But it's natural, I suppose, that you give a decidedly male viewpoint of marriage, ignoring all of the more subtle and sensitive aspects of the relationship, which the female mind considers indispensible.

I'm reminded of a story I read, The Kreutzer Sonata, published 1889, by the great Russian writer, Leo Tolstoy. http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/6/8/689/689.txt

Here is a portion of Chapter 14 which discusses the subject of women and marriage. The character in the story, making a long train journey in tsarist Russia, narrates the story of his experience with marriage. (Don't think that it reflects my own thinking but I only give it here it because it reflects the way some men do think on the subject of women.)

"Yes, much worse than the animal is man when he does not live as a man.

Thus was I. The horrible part is that I believed, inasmuch as I did not

allow myself to be seduced by other women that I was leading an

honest family life, that I was a very mortal being, and that if we had

quarrels, the fault was in my wife, and in her character.

"But it is evident that the fault was not in her. She was like everybody

else, like the majority. She was brought up according to the principles

exacted by the situation of our society,--that is, as all the young

girls of our wealthy classes, without exception, are brought up, and

as they cannot fail to be brought up. How many times we hear or read

of reflections upon the abnormal condition of women, and upon what

they ought to be. But these are only vain words. The education of women

results from the real and not imaginary view which the world entertains

of women's vocation. According to this view, the condition of women

consists in procuring pleasure and it is to that end that her education

is directed. From her infancy she is taught only those things that are

calculated to increase her charm. Every young girl is accustomed to

think only of that.

"As the serfs were brought up solely to please their masters, so woman

is brought up to attract men. It cannot be otherwise. But you will say,

perhaps, that that applies only to young girls who are badly brought up,

but that there is another education, an education that is serious, in

the schools, an education in the dead languages, an education in the

institutions of midwifery, an education in medical courses, and in other

courses. It is false.

"Every sort of feminine education has for its sole object the attraction

of men.

"Some attract by music or curly hair, others by science or by civic

virtue. The object is the same, and cannot be otherwise (since no other

object exists),--to seduce man in order to possess him. Imagine courses

of instruction for women and feminine science without men,--that

is, learned women, and men not KNOWING them as learned. Oh, no! No

education, no instruction can change woman as long as her highest ideal

shall be marriage and not virginity, freedom from sensuality. Until

that time she will remain a serf. One need only imagine, forgetting the

universality of the case, the conditions in which our young girls are

brought up, to avoid astonishment at the debauchery of the women of our

upper classes. It is the opposite that would cause astonishment.

"Follow my reasoning. From infancy garments, ornaments, cleanliness,

grace, dances, music, reading of poetry, novels, singing, the theatre,

the concert, for use within and without, according as women listen, or

practice themselves. With that, complete physical idleness, an excessive

care of the body, a vast consumption of sweetmeats; and God knows how

the poor maidens suffer from their own sensuality, excited by all these

things. Nine out of ten are tortured intolerably during the first period

of maturity, and afterward provided they do not marry at the age of

twenty. That is what we are unwilling to see, but those who have

eyes see it all the same. And even the majority of these unfortunate

creatures are so excited by a hidden sensuality (and it is lucky if it

is hidden) that they are fit for nothing. They become animated only

in the presence of men. Their whole life is spent in preparations for

coquetry, or in coquetry itself. In the presence of men they become too

animated; they begin to live by sensual energy. But the moment the man

goes away, the life stops.

"And that, not in the presence of a certain man, but in the presence of

any man, provided he is not utterly hideous. You will say that this is

an exception. No, it is a rule. Only in some it is made very evident, in

other less so. But no one lives by her own life; they are all dependent

upon man. They cannot be otherwise, since to them the attraction of the

greatest number of men is the ideal of life (young girls and married

women), and it is for this reason that they have no feeling stronger

than that of the animal need of every female who tries to attract the

largest number of males in order to increase the opportunities for

choice. So it is in the life of young girls, and so it continues

during marriage. In the life of young girls it is necessary in order to

selection, and in marriage it is necessary in order to rule the

husband..."

[Nan]

Originally Posted By: Nan

Ladies, how much credence do we give to the explanations for our actions originating with the males? Are they qualified to give an opinion?? :S

So am I in the dog house for bringing this up and offering it as discussion?

[please note, I have not given much of an PERSONAL opinion as yet....but I am having LOADS of fun defending the origional thesis ....and am interested in everyone's opinion...male AND FEmale...]

And your reasons, again Nan, for women attaching themselves to men was....? Surely, you, a doctor, should be able to qualify and quantify those factors, being a scientist and all....?

LOL

I am not sure if that is the reason you are in the dog house, but if the cap or the bone fits, wear it or do what you want with it.

I am glad my little query drew such a response - I forgot to add the TIC icon.

I am not sure how many of those descriptions apply to me. !!...I attached to my man for compatibility reasons - read a praying man with a good sense of humor, nothing to do with the other reasons cited above. But a second time round may have a different basis when not looking for a provider for children.

[JeriAnne]

Interesting discussion and one that triggers a plethera of emotions triggered by a past heavily weighted with the injustices of mens demands for an attractiveness based on the societal norms of thinness and long silken hair!

After 25 years of marriage I found myself single and actually found it rather nice but after 7 years of that started dating again. It certainly was different the second time around! When you are in your 20's everyone has potential and very little history! Now I found that everyone had history and very little potential! If they hadn't lived up to whatever potential they had they probably weren't going to!!

The second time around I decided that there was NO way I could be sure of a mans love if he couldn't accept my body like it was (a far distance from the societal norm) Any man I would love would also have to at least admit that his life had left him with some baggage! I was looking for what he was doing with his baggage and if he was blind to its presence I would run the other way!!! Personal honesty (about himself) was the most important factor in my attraction to him!

As far as the security thing....Don't think such a thing exists! Life and Betrayal tends to make one adjust expectations!

Happily I found a man that loved me as is and was also able to admist that life had left its scars and issues. For me it was my first experience with "Falling" in love. Before I had only grown into love!

AND....have told my man that I love him dearly but because of some of those issues wonder if we can live together! Promised him I will NOT divorce him though I am thinking seriously about purchasing a duplex for us to inhabit!!! Maybe that would give us the best of both worlds!!!

Relationships! Often a puzzle, Always important!

[Bravus]

I don't question why my beloved was attracted to me, I'm just grateful!

[Nan]

Bravus, certainly the nicest and perhaps the wisest answer of all.

I can relate to JeriAnne as well, I too was left single after 25 years of marriage and remarried 8 years later. A whole different ball game that time round, and 4 years later I am still occasionally surprised - and always delighted - by the relationsip.

I do not think as much in that article applies to later onset get- togethers.

[Stan]

I don't question why my beloved was attracted to me, I'm just grateful!

Bravus, it was the Aussie Accent.... a lot of women fall for that here.... :)

[cricket]

What of the masculinity of a man who does not find women to be objects of beauty; and the femininity of a woman who attaches to men only for their looks?