Tithe, what say you?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I know of at least one SDA-owned facility that takes the 10% out of their employees' pay before the employees even see their paycheck. Doesn't matter if employee is SDA or not.

p.s. I thought the tithe money went to the local Conference who then parcels it out to Conference needs

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I know of at least one SDA-owned facility that takes the 10% out of their employees' pay before the employees even see their paycheck. Doesn't matter if employee is SDA or not.

I don't think that would be legal. Now an employer can donate 10% of their payroll to charity. So, for example, if I pay an employee $10/hour, I can donate $1 to a specific charity for every hour that employee works. But the charitable contribution would be of the company, not of the employee. That would not reduce the pay to $9/hour. The pay would remain $10/hour. Now the employee may feel he of she is worth $11/hour and the employer is taking 10% that should belong to them (the employee) but legally, the employee's wage would be $10/hour and the extra dollar would be coming from the employer and not the employee.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Shane, I didn't think it was legal either, but the employees are afraid to say/do anything about it because they want to keep their jobs.

just for a minute...

I was in a job at one point where I was forced to do unethical and illegal things. I stayed because I needed the job, and I stayed and didn't report him because I was told that was the place God wanted me to work. What does one do with a statement like that?? Especially when you're a new Christian???

[Gregory Matthews]

Pam:

I would like more information on this. Until lyou provide it, I will think that your are wrong.

There was a time when employees of the SDA chrurch had tithe deducted from their wages. This was most often done for missionaries.

But, I do nto think that such is done today.

Further, to do so from non-SDAs would raise issues of legality and with the IRS.

Please substantiate what you have said.

Thanks,

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Pam:

I would like more information on this. Until lyou provide it, I will think that your are wrong.

There was a time when employees of the SDA chrurch had tithe deducted from their wages. This was most often done for missionaries.

But, I do nto think that such is done today.

Further, to do so from non-SDAs would raise issues of legality and with the IRS.

Please substantiate what you have said.

Thanks,

Tis not CHURCH-owned; it is ADVENTiST-owned.

Please see the pm I sent.

[Stan]

There was a time when employees of the SDA chrurch had tithe deducted from their wages. This was most often done for missionaries.

But, I do not think that such is done today.

Some of us wish we had that option, it may be months until we are at our home church.

[Woody]

Quote:

Were these the practices before we had an actual "storehouse"? And I thought the idea of a tenth came from the Bible - why would the GC have to adopt a policy about it?

I don't know if the church had a money storehouse in the early years. But I think they just did not have an understanding of the biblical terms of tithing. It took them till around 1879 to adopt the biblical understanding of tithe.

It is funny to read the early tithing practices of our church. But to me it just points out growth. And when the conservatives say we need to return to the original teachings of our church ... I like to point out this one.

[Gerr]

I am not aware of the church voting against women being Pastors. Since my wife IS an SDA woman pastor ... I would be interested to know about this vote.

I should have inserted the word "ordination" of women pastors.

Gerry

[Woody]

Oh. Thanks fine. Ordination is really not a big deal in most women pastor's minds from what I have observed.

[Planey]

There was a time when employees of the SDA chrurch had tithe deducted from their wages.

This was the practice in the South Pacific Division at one time. Apparently the tithe was removed before the income tax was calculated, so the net effect was to reduce the amount of tax paid. (Note that Australia/NZ has PAYE tax.)

Thus the employee received a net higher income, always assuming they would have paid tithe by choice themselves. I don't think that this method is currently used (though as I am not at present employed by the denomination I am not sure.)

Graeme

[Woody]

I am not sure I like having tithe deducted from your wages ... but the church does have a requirement that anyone and all members who hold any church office is required to be faithful tithe payers. So ... in the sense that the employee was an office holder ... then that would be consistant with current church policies.

[carolaa]

I am not sure I like having tithe deducted from your wages ... but the church does have a requirement that anyone and all members who hold any church office is required to be faithful tithe payers. So ... in the sense that the employee was an office holder ... then that would be consistant with current church policies.

Well, it should definitely be voluntary. But, hey, if you work for the church, what could be more efficient than a simple voucher transferring money from the payroll account into the tithe account? It does seem like a pretty impersonal way to give, but really no different than automatic transfers that some churches do. In one conference years ago, the pastors were required to contribute to a major project, I think it was an academy renovation, and it was taken out of their paycheck. I don't think we do that much anymore.

[nuff sed]

Oh. Thanks fine. Ordination is really not a big deal most women pastor's minds from what I have observed.

If it isn't such a big deal why does it keep arising each time the G.C. in session says "No"?

[Woody]

Well ... it's a big deal to me. And I think it is a big deal to many who see what is happening. But those that are busy serving God as Pastor's ... could just not be bothered. Just my personal observations.

[aldona]

Just tagging on here...

Here is an article from today's local newspaper (Melbourne) about a local church (I think it's Pentecostal or something similar) allegedly using heavy-handed tactics for extracting tithe from members, including teenagers as young as 16.

Church puts bite on battling teens

Quote:

VICTORIAN teens are donating 10 per cent of their wages under pressure from a booming evangelical church.

Planetshakers followers as young as 16 have been accruing credit card bills to help the church, insiders have said.

The church has forms for a "tithe" to be withdrawn weekly by direct debit.

Disillusioned members have been irritated by the focus on the holy dollar.

They claim some young people are giving money they can not afford.

Quote:

DVDs of sermons cost $135 and CDs are $99.

Quote:

Pastor Evans made no apology for spending money on marketing.

In this day and age, when religious organizations are (rightly or wrongly) seen by the public as a money-making racket, we should devote more care and thought to how our tithe system is administered, promoted and enforced.

aldona

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Well, it should definitely be voluntary. But, hey, if you work for the church, what could be more efficient than a simple voucher transferring money from the payroll account into the tithe account? It does seem like a pretty impersonal way to give, but really no different than automatic transfers that some churches do. In one conference years ago, the pastors were required to contribute to a major project, I think it was an academy renovation, and it was taken out of their paycheck. I don't think we do that much anymore.

AS I see it, the problem is that the Bible leaves it up to the individual to determine the "increase" and therefore the amount of the tithe. There is no Biblical basis for either some other person, or organization, to determine the amount of tithe that one should pay.

I will illustrate: As a Seminary student I was taking a class in finance, taught by one of the Business professors from the College. One day we got to talking about tithe. One of the students mentioned that he personally planned to pay tithe on the $50 that he would recieve each month as reimbursement for automobile expenses. [NOTE: He also planned not to pay tithe on a second payment for automobile expenses.]

The student explained why he would do such. This generated a lively discussion, which brought up viewpoints which the professor had never considered and he allowed the discussion to continue. In the end, some agreed with the student and some did not.

My point is not to state which view one should take. My point is that people are different and the Bible is clear that the payment of tithe is an individual decision as to how the increase is determined.

[Woody]

Quote:

My point is not to state which view one should take. My point is that people are different and the Bible is clear that the payment of tithe is an individual decision as to how the increase is determined.

Gregory ... I very much appreciate this attitude.

I would expand it to all of our doctrines. It is up to the individual to determine what are the doctrines and how to apply them. Differences of interpretations of scripture should be accepted with tolerance, love and acceptance.

I know this is not a popular view nor is it manly. But it IS mine.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Gregory Matthews:

My point is not to state which view one should take. My point is that people are different and the Bible is clear that the payment of tithe is an individual decision as to how the increase is determined.

Gregory makes the point that it is not his opinion that calculating tithe is an individual matter but rather a teaching of the Bible. I agree with that. Gregory, thank you for stating that so clearly.

[Robert]

I pay/return my tithe as an acknowledgment of God's sovereignty over my possessions, just as I acknowledge His sovereignty over time by keeping the day He set aside.

A bit late, but....

Where do you get the idea that "tithe [is] an acknowledgment of God's sovereignty over my possessions"? Bible please.

[Woody]

Quote:

Gregory Matthews:

My point is not to state which view one should take. My point is that people are different and the Bible is clear that the payment of tithe is an individual decision as to how the increase is determined.

Gregory makes the point that it is not his opinion that calculating tithe is an individual matter but rather a teaching of the Bible. I agree with that. Gregory, thank you for stating that so clearly.