Questions on Doctrine"Controversial Debate-now in Loma Linda

[delta]

Please pray that another panel discussion in Loma Linda will be still in God's control--NOT in Jesuits nor Evangelicals' either. On January 25-26, 2008, Loma Linda University SDA Church will host the second panel discussion/seminar called: MIND and SPIRIT--a Celebration of Faith and Learning

[font:Arial]TOPIC: The Adventist Identity and The Challenge of Diversity: Questions on Doctrine 50 Years Later [For more info go to Bulletin Download at http://lluc.netadventist.org/ ]. LLUC Church phone:1-909-558-4570

Some Adventists in USA and Canada-especially in the west coast-would probably fly or driving for up to 150 miles to Loma Linda just to see directly this second panel discussion live and also to be able asking some questions during the seminar. On the other hand, however, it's already predicted in advance that certain number of people from evangelical movement as well as Jesuit spies shall be there too. It's almost impossible that those two different groups would not come in special sensitive event like this.

Though the purpose of this kind of panel discussion is to "start to heal relationships that have been damaged for so long,.." but keep in mind that there is no correlation nor at least a little compromise is ever possible for those two different theological views to be married into one unity. Anyway, in here we should also need to pray so that this official "war" between Conservative VS Liberal Adventism should not go into any damage.

Central to these concerns were four alleged items: (1) the atonement was not completed at the cross; (2) salvation is the result of grace plus the works of the law; (3) Jesus was a created being, not from all eternity; and (4) that Jesus partook of man's sinful, fallen nature at the incarnation.

The liberal Adventists will get help from Contemporary New Theology and Evangelical movement point of views.

The conservative Adventists will get help directly from the Bible and also will ask the audiences to bring the Bible to help themseves to compare verse by verse in answering any "peculiar" Adventists doctrines/beliefs. "Let the Bible explains itself"

If the liberals group doesn't make any pressure to the moderator, then the discussion is not limited only to "Justification [alone]", but then will continue by discussing specific about John 14:15 in the eye of Evangelical church ["If you love Me, keep My commandments".] But keep in mind that special discussion about John 14:15 won't be available if there's too much pressure from liberal Adventists. Let's hope there will be a fair game here.

The controversial conference--but provides forum for dialogue--was first held at Andrews University on October 24-25, 2007 [last year] as the "50th Anniversary Conference"-so to speak, that marking the 50th anniversary of the most controversial book in Adventists History. [http://qod.andrews.edu/presenters.html]

This dangerous book called Seventh-day Adventists Answer QUESTIONS ON DOCTRINE (often abbreviated "QOD") was officially published by the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1957 with two main political agendas: (1) To help compromise Adventists and Evangelicals and (2) to create "judgemental mindsetting" among ourselves that Conservative Adventists must be criminalized and judged as fanatics, stupid and close-minded. And since the official General Conference of SDA becomes more and more lose their sight of God's purpose through this last days Advent Movement but less and less in honoring, appreciating the importance of the Three Angels' Messages, then this political agenda to destroy the Advent Movement by creating this controversial book is not significantly surprised anymore.

That's why it is very much illegal for all Adventists Theological Seminaries such as Andrews University, AUC and especially PUC, La Sierra, Loma Linda etc. to set up a study or to make a clarification about the difference between "Conservative Adventists" VS "Fanatics Adventists"

So, what is the difference between "Conservative Adventists" VS "Fanatics Adventists"? Unfortunately this important study has been banned (not in writing yet) for real. You should never find the Biblical whole study and aswers about this special comparative study in any of Adventists theological schools that produce SDA pastors.

Why? The political agenda here is to brainwashed and create a judgemental tendency to proclaim that Conservative Adventists are equal to fanaticism. No question asked! Then by doing this, Adventists already have a door widely opened to:

-Accept and compromise with certain 'non-Biblical but uniting' doctrines

-Insidiously introducing an overreacting attitude against legalism. [Legalism is bad, of course; The concern here, however, is that the evangelical movement and jesuit agenda in promoting an overreacting attitude towards legalism has been successfully blinding many Adventists regarding a fundamental view about the importance of inseparable togetherness of God's grace and the spirit of obedience.... by preaching too much only about grace, grace and grace alone. Nothing else but God's grace alone required for our salvation]. Obedience? You don't really need that 'eh? Once saved always saved!

Now back to this coming conference in Loma Linda, some of the sessions will also feature academic papers representing difference perspectives on the history and theology of Questions on Doctrine, the relationship and differences between Adventists and evangelicals, and the present and future of Adventism.

Friday Keynote Speaker: George Knight

Sabbath Worship Speaker: Jon Paulien

Presenters: Chris Oberg, Kenneth Samples, Julius Nam, Larry Kirkpatrick and Fritz Guy.

Panel Participants: Larry Christoffel, Fritz Guy, Larry Kirkpatrick, George Knight, David Larson, Julius Nam, Jon Paulien, Rick Rice, and Kenneth Samples.

Date: Friday, January 25, 2008--07:00 pm

Duration: 2 Hours

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2008--08:30 am

Duration: 4 Hours

[Music provided by the Sanctuary Choir and Junior Choir]

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2008--03:00 pm

Duration: 2 Hours

---Admission is free---

Loma Linda University Seventh-day Adventists Church

11125 Campus Street

Loma Linda, California 92354 USA

Phone: 1-909-558-4570 http://lluc.netadventist.org/

[John317]

Please pray that another panel discussion in Loma Linda will be still in God's control--NOT in Jesuits nor Evangelicals' either. On January 25-26, 2008, Loma Linda University SDA Church will host the second panel discussion/seminar called: MIND and SPIRIT--a Celebration of Faith and Learning

[font:Arial]TOPIC: The Adventist Identity and The Challenge of Diversity

: Questions on Doctrine 50 Years Later [For more info go to Bulletin Download at http://lluc.netadventist.org/ ]. LLUC Church phone:1-909-558-4570

....Now back to this coming conference in Loma Linda, some of the sessions will also feature academic papers representing difference perspectives on the history and theology of Questions on Doctrine, the relationship and differences between Adventists and evangelicals, and the present and future of Adventism.

Friday Keynote Speaker: George Knight

Sabbath Worship Speaker: Jon Paulien

Presenters: Chris Oberg, Kenneth Samples, Julius Nam, Larry Kirkpatrick and Fritz Guy.

Panel Participants: Larry Christoffel, Fritz Guy, Larry Kirkpatrick, George Knight, David Larson, Julius Nam, Jon Paulien, Rick Rice, and Kenneth Samples.

Date: Friday, January 25, 2008--07:00 pm

Duration: 2 Hours

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2008--08:30 am

Duration: 4 Hours

[Music provided by the Sanctuary Choir and Junior Choir]

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2008--03:00 pm

Duration: 2 Hours

---Admission is free---

Loma Linda University Seventh-day Adventists Church

11125 Campus Street

Loma Linda, California 92354 USA

Phone: 1-909-558-4570 http://lluc.netadventist.org/

These meetings look very interesting. I'll be there. Thanks for the info.

[Woody]

Boy ... If a new believer read this post ... they might reconsider being an Adventist.

For the sake of unity ... I hope they are able to compromise and come to some conclusions. And in the end ... LOVE each other. I would hate to see those "Jesuit spies" present get their wish.

[Stan]

I have yet to meet a Jesuit in the Church, but would more than welcome them to listen to some great Adventist sermons.

Twice, different people have 'exposed' me as a Jesuit... weird..

[Woody]

Are you planning to attend this meeting in secret Stan? You would have to go Incognito.

[Woody]

I say ... the more spies the better ....

[John317]

I've attended meetings like these before at the University church. They're very interesting and worth while. Various teachers and writers present papers dealing with a variety of subjects, such as the future of the Adventist church, etc. They should be quite good. If you're interested but can't attend, I'm sure you can order the recordings from the church office.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[delta]

Where and when is the next one?

[Jeannieb43]

I've attended meetings like these before at the University church. They're very interesting and worth while. Various teachers and writers present papers dealing with a variety of subjects, such as the future of the Adventist church, etc. They should be quite good. If you're interested but can't attend, I'm sure you can order the recordings from the church office.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

"Interesting" and "worthwhile" are the operative words here. It's educational and enlightening to listen to discussions relating to obscure points of doctrine. However, it should not IMHO move anyone to treat the Adventist faith with disdain, or to believe our church is being "split."

Those who are Biblical scholars are constantly studying and refining their beliefs. It's very obvious that truth is progressive. This does not shake my faith in any way. And in fact I really don't have the mental capacity or the personal inclination to become involved in any of these discussions [not "disputes"]. God accepts us where we are. As long as we honestly study His word daily, and pray, we don't have to worry about what the "progressives" or the "conservatives" are doing or saying.

[Woody]

I'm with you on that Jeannie. I would just add one more group to the following list ...

Quote:

we don't have to worry about what the "progressives" or the "conservatives" are doing or saying.

"Jesuit Spies"

We really don't have to worry about the Jesuits if we have our heart right with God.

[Jeannieb43]

Right, Redwood.

The older I get, the less I'm intimidated by any nebulous "Jesuits" who might be lurking in the woodwork. They're just ordinary mortals like us. They're not really aware of what goes on in the real world, because they're secreted off in monasteries somewhere. If they're being trained to somehow "torture" or "maim" their religious "enemies," then so be it. God has spared His people all through the ages, and He'll be with us now. I'm sure God will grant us courage to face whatever may come, as long as we trust in Him.

There are more pressing temptations facing me right now--such as organizing my days--every day--to include time for personal devotions and prayer; watching my diet and exercise; and donating my time to my grandchildren and to the charitable activities which need my services. The devil really knows how to tempt me to become lax in those areas.

[Neil D]

Those who are Biblical scholars are constantly studying and refining their beliefs. It's very obvious that truth is progressive. This does not shake my faith in any way. And in fact I really don't have the mental capacity or the personal inclination to become involved in any of these discussions [not "disputes"]. God accepts us where we are. As long as we honestly study His word daily, and pray, we don't have to worry about what the "progressives" or the "conservatives" are doing or saying.

Wow!...I am not usually impressed with what is posted on this Board...but Jeanie...what you said was monumental. Thank you..If you will let me, I can sum it up from a biblical text...

"Being confident of this very thing, that He that has begun a good work in you, will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".... What this says to me is that God is directly responsible for how you turn out, and give you as many oppertunities to change into the person that He desires...So, all your theological debates mean nothing, all you narrow minded "Jesuit behind every door" Adventist.

I remember talking with a Jesuit priest, who nailed conservative Adventistism and thier ideas rather harshly. He said that we were such a small church that we were not worth worrying about, and that we were so full of ourselves thinking that we were mentioned in the hall of the Vaticant on a daily basis. I have to agree with him in that, with those of us thinking that there were Jesuit spys in the church, was such an ego self centered theology/thought...it was mind boggling....

Sorry to all who may be offended with this....but I just have little, or NO patience for this sort of thing...Jesuits in the church....as if....

[Guest]

Jesuit Spies Huh? Well thats great, maybe they will convert. After all, we aren't hiding anything anybody should not know, are we?

[Woody]

I would question the credibility of anyone who is paranoid about "Jesuit Spies" in the church.

Like the rest of you ... I say .... BRING ON THE SPIES.

[John317]

I would question the credibility of anyone who is paranoid about "Jesuit Spies" in the church.

Like the rest of you ... I say .... BRING ON THE SPIES.

It's like Ellen White said, the greatest danger to the church comes from within the church rather than from outside of it.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[Woody]

John317. I actually agree with you. I have been seeing this more and more. There are many radicals present in our church and they make there presence known in a forceful way. One way to know true followers when you see them ...

You shall know them by their love.

You will know they are Christians by their LOVE by their LOVE.

You will K N O W they are Christians by their LOVE.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I would question the credibility of anyone who is paranoid about "Jesuit Spies" in the church.

Like the rest of you ... I say .... BRING ON THE SPIES.

It's like Ellen White said, the greatest danger to the church comes from within the church rather than from outside of it.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

Touche'

[Guest truthseeker007]

No matter how many jesuits infiltrate, as long as the fundamental beliefs remain intact and God raises people to educate and warn his people in these times, the church is safe. However Jesuits are brainwashed people who should stop playing silly games.Some of you probably already know the following oath:

I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.