Stan Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen Doing things that push people to do that.. That certainly does sound like a possible justification of defamation. It suggests that an innocent party who has been victimized by slander, for example, is somehow at fault. That is in the same category as telling someone who is physically abused in a relationship that it is 'her fault.' Physical abuse is never justified. Libel is never justified. Any hint otherwise can open the door to wrongful behaviors, serious damage and very significant legal liability. By definition, slander and libel are false. There is no excuse for engaging in such. They are a perversion of truth, and they are horribly destructive. They are actionable per se. There is no excuse for committing defamation. It is so often the case that the one who is defaming someone else, twists and distorts the facts, and that the one defamed has acted in good faith. Character assassination is not justified. It is far better to stop making excuses for someone who does so, and instead hold him or her accountable for such wrongful actions. Neither are justifiable... If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Ok, I stole it from him...You gotta problem with that????? LOL Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 The problem Stan is that when you are dealing with unstable people one can never be certain what will set them off. What is simply a discussion can cause one person to be calm and another to fly into a rage. Flying into a rage is not good but when that rage leads them to libel another it can never be justified. Nothing can FORCE a person to lie about another when most of the time people are just discussion facts or stuff that is happening in the world. Now I know you are talking about pushing peoples buttons. Yes I have been guilty of that. So have a great many of us. But does that justify a certain person libeling me for pushing her buttons from time to time more so since pushing her buttons is simply discussing certain topics she does not like my viewpoint on. Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 27, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2008 PuritanBoard Infraction System The following infractions may be assessed by any Moderator, Super-Moderator, or Admin upon any PuritanBoard member who violates the rules. Infractions will typically be assessed after warning the member but an infraction may be assessed without warning given the forum rules that all have agreed to upon enrollment. Violation Infraction Expiration Inappropriate Language 2 points 10 days Signature Violation 4 points 10 days Board Rule Violation 5 points 14 days Insulted Other Member(s) 8 points 60 days Disrespect to Moderator 10 points 90 days Automatic Suspension If a member accrues 20 points at any one time then their account will be automatically suspended for a period of one (1) month. Suspensions may run concurrently with infraction points and completion of a suspension period does not "reset" infraction points. For example, a user may cross the suspension threshold of 20 points after disrespect to a moderator. Although the suspension would be lifted after thirty (30) days, the user would still have the infraction points assessed for the disrespect assessed to his/her account. Long Term Suspension and Banning The admins continue to reserve the right to suspend indefinitely or ban a user if egregious rules violations occur or the member openly repudiates Confessional requirements. Changes The Admins reserve the right to append/modify/delete specific infractions. For current infractions always refer to this page to determine the current infractions. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 27, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2008 The problem Stan is that when you are dealing with unstable people one can never be certain what will set them off. What is simply a discussion can cause one person to be calm and another to fly into a rage. . Just tagging on... There a few people that are active on the board right now who have "issues" and they are driving this push for NEW rules. They are in some cases the I biggest offenders in many of the areas discussed. The Admin can't "legislate" this stuff away. They must communicate openly and honestly with those who seem to be constantly involved in fights. Some may need to be asked to change their behavior or leave. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Neither are justifiable... Then that makes a person responsible for someone else's actions. A person can indeed be acting in good faith, with the best intentions, with good motives, doing what s/he believes to be right, and STILL get defamed. Surely you recognize that? The very nature of communication involves filtering and 'noise' on the part of the reader or hearer. Very often, a person is offended by what s/he DOES with what is read or heard, rather than any offense being intended by the communicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Making up lies is never right.. Pushing one's buttons continually, not right either.. Not all things transfer as they should in text communication.. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I see what you are saying. I agree. I have had my buttons pushed, and indeed I have responded (although not with libel). Also, I have at times been told that I pushed someone's buttons. Most of the time, speaking for myself, it would be unintentional on my part. I ordinarily would not set out to 'push someone's buttons.' Still, there will be someone who gets annoyed. It is that type of scenario that I would be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Ok, I stole it from him...You gotta problem with that????? Now if that AINT a combination! A closet conservative AND a thief. Well, well, the truth comes out. Wonder what else is lurking in that closet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Now if that AINT a combination! A closet conservative AND a thief. Well, well, the truth comes out. Wonder what else is lurking in that closet? Hey Hey Hey....Get it right David!!!...Admitted text thief and ACCUSEDself-acknowledged closet conservative. Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Well, you might as well come out of the closet. It is clear from your posts that you have recently become more . . . CONSERVATIVE. No doubt the result of ageing and the school of hard knocks. That's okay, however you got there, you DID get there--at last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Originally Posted By: Neil D Educate, Educate, Educate....is my new motto for this thread.... [i wonder, am I begining to sound like Ed?] I thought that was Redwood's line? Please. Do not bring up my name on this thread. I am trying to stay clear of this fray. There are certain people on this thread that are best to stay clear of. I try to stay out of controversial topics. But, you guys go to it. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Neil's silence is eloquent testimony to the truth of what I said. His 'outing' has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Neil's silence is eloquent testimony to the truth of what I said. His 'outing' has happened. Silence ??!?!?!?!? Just because I leave the computer to go to eat breakfast doesn't constitute silence on my part..... I know that California is a liberal state and the drug laws are flexible, but tell me, just what are you smoking over there??? Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Stan, here is my concern about some of the proposed 'rules,' and following the discussion on this thread. I came to C/A because I enjoy a good, stimulating discussion. I am interested in exploring ideas for the sake of exploring ideas. And, for the sake of discovering, 'what is truth?' There have been subjects and ideas presented, which I have been extremely interested in. I have a careful, methodical approach to understanding and evaluating things. It is how I do things. To my surprise, I discovered that some people--a few, but a very vocal few--took offense--had their buttons pushed--by the WAY in which I engaged in discovery. My intentions were the best, my motivation was genuine and very sincere--but offense was taken. Now, as I follow the discussion on this thread, I see positions being taken, statements being made, by a few--but a vocal few--who made similar complaints about how I post and go about things. And I KNOW where I was coming from and what my intentions were. So, my concern is that the rule-making and implememting process could be distorted and usurped to satisfy the demands of a very vocal minority, thus warping the whole forum into a particular mode and posting style, and squeezing out those who the small but vocal minority disapproves of. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 That's okay, Neil. I understand. Going public with the new you may be a difficult adjustment at first, but it's alright. And besides, just think how much the ladies will appreciate the *NEW* Neil! They'll be standing in line at your door! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [changing to serious discussion] Dave, There is a difference between kindly and stubbornly standing firm, and stubbornly but being beligerant to the others... Moderators would need to know that, and can tell that in the posts... Also, as far as I am concerned, it is the moderators who enforce...not the Administration....Administration will do the banning behind the scenes after a review process with the moderators.... So, the moderators will be the "bad guys" and will enforce rules and educate educate and educate some more....and past up recommendations to administration....Administration can rubber stamp them after some review.... Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 That's okay, Neil. I understand. Going public with the new you may be a difficult adjustment at first, but it's alright. And besides, just think how much the ladies will appreciate the *NEW* Neil! They'll be standing in line at your door! You do realize that you need a prescription to smoke that stuff, don't you? Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 The fact that these things come up tells me that forgiveness hasn't happened on either side. The Bible says "Only by pride cometh contentions." When one person humbles themselves in a conflict and chooses not to fight, it defuses the conflict completely. There are two kinds of sins. One that we can pay for and one that we cannot pay for. This is the second kind. No one can pay for it, so the only Biblical option is to release the other person completely. A willingness to do this is a willingness to walk in the way of Christ. "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." oG "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Yeah Neil, the system can work like you describe, with the moderators addressing concerns. That is dependent, however, upon the moderators being even-handed. It is important to preserve that as a goal. I know of one moderator on C/A who has publicly stated that he does NOT intend to be even-handed. I have been on the receiving end of that, and it is absolutely outrageous and compromises the sense of safety. It is not a safe place when that kind of situation continues. There should be few rules, clearly stated, enforced uniformly across the board, with a blindfold on, so to speak. That would be a good healthy start to turn things around. I'd like to comment also on the tendency some may have to try to influence policy and administration. Stan mentioned in a post, something about people PM'in him, wanting him to ban so and so, and apparently that has happened quite a bit. It seems there is a very vocal element who works behind the scenes to get what they want or think should be done. All of that, again, raises concern about the integrity of the process. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," the saying goes. That opens the door to unfairness and abuse. Solution? A few simple rules, clearly understood and evenly enforced. But as for Neil's epiphany . . . no, I aint smokin NUTHIN! Just calling things as I see them. Cmon Neil, fess up. We know what you really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 *** Each and everyone of you has the ability to stop this thread. Just suck it up and curb the urge to have the last word. Then the last words will fade away on their own. <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Making up lies is never right.. Pushing one's buttons continually, not right either.. Not all things transfer as they should in text communication.. AHH but Stan you have been guilty to of pushing peoples Buttons as well haven't you. You continually start threads that is a jab at people who started or continue a brawl on CA. You jab at them in a humourous way but still it is pushing buttons. You do that a lot. So I would not be pointing fingers. After all you point a finger at me and three of your fingers are pointing to you. Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Koot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 *** Each and everyone of you has the ability to stop this thread.. Oh, is there discussion about ending this thread? I wasn't aware of that. I thought we were discussing possibilities and concerns about rules for the forum????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 *** Each and everyone of you has the ability to stop this thread. Just suck it up and curb the urge to have the last word. Then the last words will fade away on their own. Very true but that just delays things. Sooner or later bad blood tends to come out in other threads. Must we all tread around certain people like we are treading on eggshells and avoid certain topics all together because it might offend certain people? Is that any way to run a forum? Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Quote: Must we all tread around certain people like we are treading on eggshells and avoid certain topics all together because it might offend certain people? Is that any way to run a forum? No, we don't have to but we have learned what happens if we don't. Do you like the outcome? <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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