Woody Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Why has the Lord not come sooner? Is it that we are not good enough? Is it that He needs us to be in more misery so that we will be fully sick of sin? Is Satan delaying all of this somehow? It would seem that it is in his interest to delay his end. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 13, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2008 Why has the Lord not come sooner? Is it that we are not good enough? Is it that He needs us to be in more misery so that we will be fully sick of sin? Is Satan delaying all of this somehow? It would seem that it is in his interest to delay his end. Some of all the above, although to say it's because "we are not good enough" is to express it poorly. It is more the fact that we as a people are in rebellion against God just as surely as the Israelites wandered in the Sinai wilderness because of rebellion. There are other causes of the delay in addition to the ones you've mentioned here. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think one of the biggest reasons Jesus has delayed his coming is that he doesn't want anyone to be lost and he keeps waiting and hoping for just one more soul saved. He wants us in heaven even more than we want to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yes. "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Pet 3:9. And "When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own..." Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Quote: And "When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own..." We might as well be Morman then. Claiming that there will be a time when we will be as gods. I think there is great misunderstanding in this. This old world and even those in our church ... are getting more wicked ... not more "perfect" the way I see it. I don't see what some small group of "perfect" people would prove after all the thousands of years of "imperfection". Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think one of the biggest reasons Jesus has delayed his coming is that he doesn't want anyone to be lost and he keeps waiting and hoping for just one more soul saved. He wants us in heaven even more than we want to be there. Taylor ... I've heard this but have never fully understood. Since Jesus knows our heart and how we would respond if presented the correct message ... why is it necessary to keep waiting for "one more soul"? God knows the outcome. And some will be judged from my understanding based on how people "would" have responded IF they had been presented the correct message. Would love to hear your input on this because it is something I've long wondered about. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yes, I agree God's desire that no one be lost is one of the biggest reasons for the delay. For instance, if he were to come right now, there are hundreds of millions who would be lost because they haven't even heard the gospel. Many in the church would be lost because they are unprepared. But these answers themselves bring up questions: 1) What does it mean to be prepared for His coming? Isn't someone prepared simply by accepting Christ and becoming justified? What more must happen before one is "prepared"? 2) And won't there always be millions who have never heard the gospel? How will this ever NOT be the case? It seems that the longer He waits, the greater the world population and this adds to the percentage of humanity who've never heard the truth about Him. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2008 Quote: And "When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own..." We might as well be Morman then. Claiming that there will be a time when we will be as gods. I think there is great misunderstanding in this. But this is a misunderstanding both of what Mormon's believe on this subject and of what is being said in the Ellen White quote. Ellen White is not saying we must become as gods. Ellen White is describing a people who are 100% committed to Christ and obeying Him through the power of the Spirit in everything they know to be truth because of their love for Him. They will still be human. The Mormons believe that after death men who have obeyed the laws of the church and the laws of God will be made gods and rule in the highest sphere of heaven. Women will be a part of that experience to the extent that they are married in the church "for time and eternity" to a faithful and obedient Mormon man. Quote: This old world and even those in our church ... are getting more wicked ... There is a separation being made between those who are totally committed to God, obeying Him by faith, and those who are committed to the world. Even in the church this separation is happening. This separation both in the world and in the church will continue and become more and more distinct as we draw closer to Christ's Second Coming. Quote: not more "perfect" the way I see it. Just remember that first of all God alone knows those who are His. It has to do with a relationship with Christ and with the will to do God's will. The closer we draw to Christ the less worthy we will feel ourselves to be, and the more sinful of ourselves, apart from Christ, we will appear in our own eyes. But at the same time, as we look back and see how God has been leading us in our personal life with Him, we will gain confidence in God's promises because we will see experiential proof that He exists, that He is true, and that His Spirit is abiding in us. Quote: I don't see what some small group of "perfect" people would prove after all the thousands of years of "imperfection". I think the answers to your questions, and in particular to the last one, are found in 3 areas of Bible doctrine: a) The Sanctuary truth, that is, the Adventist understanding of Christ's High Priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, which includes the Investigative Judgment. The Three Angel's Messages that are given to help prepare people for the Second Coming, which includes the keeping of the commandments of God and the receiving of the mark of the beast. c) Understanding what and who constitutes the 144,000 in Rev. 7 and 14. When we reject what Ellen White wrote from about chapter 23 and onward in the book, The Great Controversy, it seems to me that we assure ourselves of not being able to understand the answers given there. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightingale Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Wonderfully put John. We are so blessed to have the SOP to help us to understand this wonderful truth! Of course it only makes more plain what the Bible teaches. Quote John 3: 16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2008 Exactly. In terms of what we're talking about here-- being prepared for Christ to come, and the reason for the delay-- the Bible does contain the answers to our questions, but the writings of Ellen White put those answers together in way that is so clear as to be virtually impossible to misunderstand if only we're willing to study and apply what they teach. I remember what I believe is a very crucial and important quote from The Great Controversy, to the effect that without a clear understanding of Christ's High Priestly ministry, it will be impossible for us to fulfill the duties God has for us at this time just before Christ comes for His church. Why is that? And what are the duties? Do Christians living shortly before Christ's coming have any duties that Christians living in past centuries didn't particularly have? See especially GC 421, 425, 430, 431. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Originally Posted By: Taylor I think one of the biggest reasons Jesus has delayed his coming is that he doesn't want anyone to be lost and he keeps waiting and hoping for just one more soul saved. He wants us in heaven even more than we want to be there. Taylor ... I've heard this but have never fully understood. Since Jesus knows our heart and how we would respond if presented the correct message ... why is it necessary to keep waiting for "one more soul"? God knows the outcome. And some will be judged from my understanding based on how people "would" have responded IF they had been presented the correct message. Would love to hear your input on this because it is something I've long wondered about. I can't say I completely understand it either. But I think the answere lies in the idea that God made us free moral agents, not robtos, so even in matters of salvation, even though he knows the choice we will make, he wants to allow us to make those choices for or against Him, untill the choice is final and uniquivical. Of course, the "time will be cut short" at the end because probation will have closed and there will be no more "point" to waiting any longer. God is all about making sure people have the opportunity to see that He is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thanks Taylor. Guess I will never understand it. I don't see how delaying His coming accomplishes anything. But then I am not God. So, I am sure HE sees some advantage to it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I don't know Redwood but God is God and I do know that his great heart of love wants as many as possible saved, give us the joy of giving the gospel to others, and he respects our choices and wants to give us time to make those choices. Other than that....the rest is left in God's hands. Wish I had all the answers. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 The way I see it ... the more He delays ... the more that will be lost. From what I see ... there are more and more now that reject God than those who accept Him. The longer this goes on ... the more that will be born and thus be lost. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Perhaps, but at least they have made the choice on their own, the polorization is bound to continue till Jesus comes. It has always been the case throughout history that more reject than accept Jesus, but to see the thousands I have seen make a stand for Jesus warms my heart even as it is saddened by the ones that are lost. At some point Jesus will have to step in and say it is finished...I am coming back. In the mean time our priviledge is to help in whatever way we can to get the message out to people that there is a heaven to be had with a God who loves them unconditionally. When we get to heaven, God will wipe all tears from our eyes...and I presume....that eventually the pain of the lost will be swallowed up in the joy of the saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Quote: At some point Jesus will have to step in and say it is finished...I am coming back. If He were to want Redwood Advice ... I would suggest NOW is the time. But for some reason ... I sense He is not interested in my advice. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Good thing God knows best....I am anxious for Him to come back too! I do understand! And yes he is interested in your "advice". He is thrilled you want him back!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 15, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 15, 2008 Quote: And "When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own..." We might as well be Morman then. Claiming that there will be a time when we will be as gods. I think there is great misunderstanding in this. This old world and even those in our church ... are getting more wicked ... not more "perfect" the way I see it. I don't see what some small group of "perfect" people would prove after all the thousands of years of "imperfection". "For we have been made a spectacle [theater] to the world, both to angels and to men." 1 Cor 4:9 NKJ "God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display His wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was His eternal plan, which He carried out through Jesus Christ our Lord." Eph 3:10,11 NLT Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Yes, I agree God's desire that no one be lost is one of the biggest reasons for the delay. For instance, if he were to come right now, there are hundreds of millions who would be lost because they haven't even heard the gospel. Many in the church would be lost because they are unprepared. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeanMarie Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Quote: Mt 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Lu 17:26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. Are we yet "as in the days of Noah?" I wonder what the population was at that time..... and did EVERYONE know about what was to come.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Why has the Lord not come sooner? Is it that we are not good enough? Is it that He needs us to be in more misery so that we will be fully sick of sin? Is Satan delaying all of this somehow? It would seem that it is in his interest to delay his end. Is there anything in the Bible that talks about a delay? I have a really hard time believing that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Semantics Carolaa. No ... there is no delay. God has not gone against his plan. He knows the beginning to the end. But it is taking a long time from where I am sitting and I just don't see why. Not that I have to. I guess I could always trust that HE knows best. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 16, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yes, there are certainly clear indications in the NT that people would think there is a "delay." For instance, Jesus said people would say say, "My Lord delays His coming"(Matt. 24: 26), Jesus mentioned this idea of a delay again in Luke 12: 45. It appears from the NT that Christ's Second Coming would not happen as soon as the people living at that time believed. For instance, Paul evidently assumed for a while that he would be found among those alive at Christ's return. The concept of delay is also found in 2 Peter 3: 3-9 and Rev. 10: 6. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 We also have this to consider from Ellen White ... Quote: " But like the stars in the vast circuit of their appointed path, God's purposes know no haste and no delay." DA 32 However ... again I say it is just semantics. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 We also have this to consider from Ellen White ... Quote: " But like the stars in the vast circuit of their appointed path, God's purposes know no haste and no delay." DA 32 However ... again I say it is just semantics. So, when I scream for patience, God's purposes know no haste nor delay.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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