No more God Bless America?

[lazarus]

Having been bought up in the UK I remember the grouse hunting that was done and I'm familiar with grouse, especially dead ones. I never heard of the phase "incessant grouse". I guessed it might be as you say but just wanted to get Jasd's meaning.

thanks anyway.

[Amelia]

YourDictionary.com

Quote:

grouse² Definition grouse (gro̵us)

intransitive verb groused, grous′·ing

to complain; grumble

Etymology: orig. Brit army slang < ?

noun

a complaint

[Amelia]

[Kountzer]

Thanks Amelia. I found out about that particular show a bit too late to hear that segment of the interview.

[lazarus]

I think Bill O'Rielly showed 6 only seconds of this interview. Here's the full interview. Here this pastor address eloquently and forcefully the Rev Wright controversy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/foxshamed

[Amelia]

Did you read the comments posted about that video? Is it a real Fox News interview or a set up to respond to critics? That guy interviewing does a poor job and sounds like he was pulled off the street for the gig. Also who is he interviewing? I never did hear a name. And he claims to know Rev Wright personally. Of course I had never heard of Rev Wright until all this brouhaha started. BUT he made several good points that I heartily agree with. We (white people)are pulling a double standard against Rev Wright and his statements. Obama is playing the politics game by distancing himself from Rev Wright and his comments in order to appease the white voters he already has on his side and to calm those he is trying to woo.

[Amelia]

OK I answered my own quetion.

Quote:

The Reverend Michael Louis Pfleger (born May 22, 1949[1]) is a Roman Catholic priest and social activist in Chicago, Illinois.

A German American[2] from the south side of Chicago, Pfleger attended Archbishop Quigley Preparatory Seminary South, Loyola University and the University of Saint Mary of the Lake. He was ordained a priest for the Archdiocese of Chicago on May 14, 1975. Since 1981, Pfleger has been pastor of the mostly African American Saint Sabina Catholic Church in Chicago's Auburn Gresham neighborhood. When he was appointed to his present position at the age of 31, he became the youngest pastor in the Chicago archdiocese.[1] His parishioners have affectionately referred to him as a "blue-eyed black soul". Under Pfleger's leadership, Saint Sabina has established an Employment Resource Center, a Social Service Center, and also an Elders home.

Quote:

Father Pfleger's social activism has brought him recognition throughout Chicago and beyond. He has often collaborated and associated with African American religious, political and social leaders such as Jeremiah Wright, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Louis Farrakhan

[Woody]

Quote:

Jeremiah Wright, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Louis Farrakhan

What a list.

[Kountzer]

Jesse Jackson is Jesse Jackson. The fact that certain people dislike him means I like him even more. Never heard of Jeremiah Wright before the current controversy. I've heard Joseph Lowery's name before, but I don't know much aabout him. I have at least one Cornell West book in my personal library. I saw at least one lecture of his at the Unversity of Washington. It was taped before 9/11. I wonder what he would of had to say if it was taped afterwards. Dr West is very intelligent and I have a lot of respect for him. He doesn't know diddly about the 3 angels msgs, but other than that he's aiight.

I saw Louis Farrakhan speak once about 20 yrs ago or so. He's charismatic, but I don't believe or follow everything he says. I didn't think too much of the million man marches. I know a few people, including one sda pastor, that went to those marches and were impressed. To each his own. I have only casual curiosity for religions that do not recognize Jesus as Lord.

DB

[lazarus]

Quote:

Jeremiah Wright, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Louis Farrakhan

What a list.

You are right, these are well respected and accomplished men.

[Woody]

Quote:

Jeremiah Wright

Quote:

well respected

[lazarus]

By those who know him he is most certainly respected. By those whose exposure to him has been few short soundbites, perhaps not.

Its good that God does not judge a persons whole character by perhaps less than 1% of what they have said or done!

[John317]

I understand Jeremiah Wright is going to be living soon in a multimillion dollar house in a neighborhood that is virtually all white and very wealthy. Is this true?

[Kountzer]

As I recall Pastor Wright said some unsavory things about the federal government. He is also on record for saying some stuff about italians. Based on what I know I don't think you can call him a racist. Besides there is virtual, msg board perspective and then there is reality.

Reality is the black community is more or less a state of mind. Black people live anywhere and everywhere, especially since discriminatory real estate practices were eliminated or greatly reduced some years ago. Middle class and upwardly mobile black people often live in neighborhoods with other upwardly mobile people. It's not that deep or profound.

DB

[John317]

What you say is true, but it seems to me that after he preached against all the rich white people, he would want to live among blacks rather than in a house that costs millions situated among rich white people. Personally I would feel more at home myself in a poor neighborhood of any race than among the rich. I just find it curious that Wright would choose to do this. It seems like this would be out of character for a man who has appeared to believe so strongly in the black community.

[Kountzer]

It's hard to pin a preacher down on just a few sound bites. This is just my opinion, often times, not all the time, a preacher is riding on the response of his audience. The feedback gets louder and louder, and the rhetorical response from the pulpit gets bolder, and bolder. In a situation like that it is not hard to say something awry.

Also, as I've mentioned before, many churches today, black and white, do not have the full power of the Holy Spirit. Their agenda is not lined up with present truth for this era. So, as a substitute they latch onto social issues: civil rights, abortion, etc. All those are worthy issues, but they are secondary issues.

DB

[Dr. Shane]

I think the pastor takes a smaller role in these big mega churches too. These churches have so many programs going on for the members to get involved with that even if someone doesn't really care for the pastor, they still have many good reasons to stay in the church. It seems Obama was in this church because it was a politically involved church that helped him establish a base from which he could launch his political career. I do not see any problem with that. He comes off as sincere, claims to embrace the Christian faith and I have no reason to doubt that.

[lazarus]

Here's a Wright sermon if we have the patience to watch it. He mentions 911. Context, context, context. See the 9th minute especially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ&feature=related

[Kountzer]

Jesse Jackson is Jesse Jackson. The fact that certain people dislike him means I like him even more. Never heard of Jeremiah Wright before the current controversy. I've heard Joseph Lowery's name before, but I don't know much aabout him. I have at least one Cornell West book in my personal library. I saw at least one lecture of his at the Unversity of Washington. It was taped before 9/11. I wonder what he would of had to say if it was taped afterwards. Dr West is very intelligent and I have a lot of respect for him. He doesn't know diddly about the 3 angels msgs, but other than that he's aiight.

I saw Louis Farrakhan speak once about 20 yrs ago or so. He's charismatic, but I don't believe or follow everything he says. I didn't think too much of the million man marches. I know a few people, including one sda pastor, that went to those marches and were impressed. To each his own. I have only casual curiosity for religions that do not recognize Jesus as Lord.

DB

Speaking of Jesse he was in Houston today. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5724336.html

That school is about 5 miles or so from where I live.

DB

[lazarus]

From the Huff Po....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/excerpts-from-rev-wright_b_98433.html

I've been sent by Bill Moyers' people excerpts from his interview with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, which will air tomorrow night on PBS. This is the first major Wright interview since the Obama "controversy" broke last month.

REVEREND WRIGHT:

The persons who have heard the entire sermon understand the

communication perfectly.

When something is taken like a sound bite for a political purpose and

put constantly over and over again, looped in the face of the public,

that's not a failure to communicate. Those who are doing that are

communicating exactly what they want to do, which is to paint me as some

sort of fanatic or as the learned journalist from the New York Times

called me, a "wackadoodle."

It's to paint me as something: "Something's wrong with me. There's

nothing wrong with this country...for its policies. We're perfect. Our

hands are free. Our hands have no blood on them." That's not a failure

to communicate. The message that is being communicated by the sound

bites is exactly what those pushing those sound bites want to

communicate.

BILL MOYERS:

What do you think they wanted to communicate?

REVEREND WRIGHT:

I think they wanted to communicate that I am unpatriotic, that I am

un-American, that I am filled with hate speech, that I have a cult at

Trinity United Church of Christ. And by the way, guess who goes to his

church, hint, hint, hint? That's what they wanted to communicate.

They know nothing about the church. They know nothing about our prison

ministry. They know nothing about our food ministry. They know nothing

about our senior citizens home. They know nothing about all we try to

do as a church and have tried to do, and still continue to do as a

church that believes what Martin Marty said, that the two worlds have to

be together. And that the gospel of Jesus Christ has to speak to those

worlds, not only in terms of the preached message on a Sunday morning

but in terms of the lived-out ministry throughout the week.

BILL MOYERS:

What did you think when you began to see those very brief sound bites

circulating as they did?

REVEREND WRIGHT:

I felt it was unfair. I felt it was unjust. I felt it was untrue. I

felt for those who were doing that, were doing it for some very devious

reasons.

Excerpt 2

BILL MOYERS:

Did you ever imagine that you would come to personify the black anger

that so many whites fear?

REVEREND WRIGHT:

No. I did not. I've been preaching since I was ordained 41 years ago.

I pointed out to some of the persons in Chicago who are in all of this,

new to them that the stance I took in standing against apartheid along

with our denomination back in the '70s, and putting a "Free South

Africa" sign in front of the church put me at odds with the government.

Our denomination's defense of the Wilmington Ten and Ben Chavis put me

at odds with the establishment. So, being at odds with policies is

nothing new to me.

The blowup and the blowing up of sermons preached 15, seven, six years

ago and now becoming a media event, not the full sermon, but the

snippets from the sermon and sound bite having made me the target of

hatred, yes, that is something very new and something very, very

unsettling.

Excerpt 3

BILL MOYERS:

Here is a man who came to see you 20 years ago. Wanted to know about

the neighborhood. Barack Obama was a skeptic when it came to religion.

He sought you out because he knew you knew about the community. You led

him to the faith.

You performed his wedding ceremony. You baptized his two children. You

were, for 20 years, his spiritual counsel. He has said that. And, yet,

he, in that speech at Philadelphia, had to say some hard things about

you. How did those words...how did it go down with you when you heard

Barack Obama say those things?

REVEREND WRIGHT:

It went down very simply. He's a politician, I'm a pastor. We speak to

two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a

politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. But they're two

different worlds.

I do what I do. He does what politicians do. So that what happened in

Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as

a politician.

Excerpt 4

BILL MOYERS:

In the 20 years that you've been his pastor, have you ever heard him

repeat any of your controversial statements as his opinion?

REVEREND WRIGHT:

No. No. No. Absolutely not.

I don't talk to him about politics. And so he had a political event, he

goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I

continue to be a pastor who speaks to the people of God about the things

of God.

[Woody]

Quote:

he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician.

Hey ... I actually agree with the man. Obama has behaved just like a politician. He portrays himself as the "un"politician but really ... he is no different than the rest. Maybe worse with his deceit of the American people.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Maybe worse with his deceit of the American people.

Opinons express do not necessarily reflect those of the establishment

[John317]

I remember Bill Moyers from the time when he worked as an assistant to President Johnson. He is very far to the left, even further than he was during the 60s. So in the interview we're not exactly getting any tough questioning of Jeremiah Wright. There were lots of question left unasked, for obvious reasons. It was more like the kind of questioning we would expect from Larry King.

[Neil D]

Quote:

He is very far to the left, even further than he was during the 60s. So in the interview we're not exactly getting any tough questioning of Jeremiah Wright.

Gee, people don't grow...People don't change thier minds. People are a constant. Yada yada yada....

So how come people move from being a democrat to republican and vise versa...? How come people temper their opinions as they age??? How come your grandmother's opinions are different now than when she was your age? How come your opinions are different now than 20 years ago?

Don'tcha think that 20 to 40 years ago, things were a bit different and political opinions from the same person were viewed abit differently than now?

Then how come YOU are not giving anyone that kind of slack?

[Kountzer]

FYI. Don't know if setting the recorder for this breaks the sabbath or what, but Pastor Jeremiah Wright will be on the Bill Moyers show on PBS tonight.

DB