NJK Project Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 * * * I highly doubt it will "benefit" anyone given the way you critisize Adventists. Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 ...Kernberg, Otto. Some observations on the process of mourning. International Journal of Psychoanalysis, 91:3, 2010, p 601. You’ll get the Biblical answer here Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 LOL, it must have taken you a while to critisize everyone in this thread. Oh well; I would like to briefly address what you said about/to me: Quote: Originally Posted By: OveragedI used to have dreams like this Ernie Knoll dude when I was on Mescaline. People thought I was really "connected." I could tell them the future with 90% accuracy. LOL, little did they know just how dis-connected I really was. You’ve indeed clearly enunciated three major reasons why your experience was indeed not from God: a) you were on a mind altering substance more than less accurately, or at any percentage, telling the future is not a Divine sign (Deut 3:1-5; cf. Ezek 14:1-5, 7-8) c) your dreams were evidently not “connected” to God’s word (Isa 8:20; 1 Thess 5:19-22; cf. Acts 17:11) With people such as yourself who make the claims you do, and preach the kinds of messages you are starting to post here; I would just say to other readers, check each scripture reference he claims for each point. You will soon see that they do not correspond at all, and in most cases, are quite off-topic. I took the trouble to look up every scripture you cited to me above, and was disappointed to find they do not say what you claim at all. I mentioned my personal experience with "dreams" to illustrate that if a guy on mescaline is having the same kinds of dreams as this dude we are talking about, then this guy is obviously not connected either. But a lot of people think he is, as they did me, when I had those dreams. It does you no good to cite irrelevant scripture to try and "prove" I was not connected, because I already insinuated that quite clearly, and it is the reason I said anything about it. You don't have to prove it, I admit it. But atleast check your scripture references more closely next time so that they are somewhat pertinent. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs ...Kernberg, Otto. Some observations on the process of mourning. International Journal of Psychoanalysis, 91:3, 2010, p 601. You’ll get the Biblical answer here Again; totally irrelevant to and off topic to what Pam posted. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 What would people do if they didn't have such people to discuss. This topic has been hashed about so much it's starting to turn brown. <hash browns - don't you get it?> Yes, I get it. You are making me hungry... "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 LOL, it must have taken you a while to critisize everyone in this thread. “LOL”....not really since my answers were short.... and had a few minutes to burn. –I see what may(?) have thrown you off with my Scripture references, my typo: Deut 13:1-5, other than that 1 Cor 2:6-16... Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Again; totally irrelevant to and off topic to what Pam posted. I factually, from what is self-evident there, don’t see so.... As that exposition shows, it was not a ‘naturally -induced dream’....or a least, EGW didn’t view it as so... and God did not “correct” her conclusion nor derived major (in)action at all. Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 29, 2012 Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 **off topic** It's very interesting how some people would like to insist that everything EGW wrote, said, thought, or dreamed emanated from God. Therein lies the problem the Adventist church has in convincing the public that it is not a cult. Ellen White was a human - subject to the same psychological phenomena which we all experience. In a way, it is not surprising that she had many dreams about spiritual things, for that seems to be where her primary waking focus was directed. This is not to say that many things she wrote were not (please excuse the double negative) of an inspired origin. I only mean to point out that one must be careful not to give something an "Inspired" label when it isn't necessarily so. That said, if one wishes to think certain things were inspired, and I do not share that opinion, it doesn't bother me. Best said in German, "Ich bin nicht einverstanden, doch ist es mir egal." **back to topic** Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 My wife speaks german; so for the benefit of those who do not the german phrase Pam posted above means (approx) Quote: I disagree, but I do not care "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 **off topic**It's very interesting how some people would like to insist that everything EGW wrote, said, thought, or dreamed emanated from God. Therein lies the problem the Adventist church has in convincing the public that it is not a cult. Ellen White was a human - subject to the same psychological phenomena which we all experience. In a way, it is not surprising that she had many dreams about spiritual things, for that seems to be where her primary waking focus was directed. If it's spoken by her, and is recognized as maybe coming from God, why would we feel the need to try to prove what we notice re: something not really given by God through her. I don't remember anyone getting angry at "Pilgrims Progress" when the story was definitely meant to convey spiritual truths and yet no one believes God specifically spoke through the author. Not sure of this but I seem to remember that Pilgrim's Progress is next only to the Bible as being the most read spiritual book. Feel free to correct me if you know better. It seems as human beings, we make much ado about nothing. If we wish to believe something we repeat is from God, no one need believe it. It isn't our responsibility to make sure any believe as we do. That's the Holy Spirit's responsibility. But it is my responsibility as a disciple of Christ to carry the spoken Word. Else how can I profess myself as being Jesus' disciple. "Still later He appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating together. He rebuked them for their stubborn unbelief because they refused to believe those who had seen him after he had been raised from the dead. And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned."Mark 16:14-16 NLT "Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7 ASB God blesses! Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I mentioned my personal experience with "dreams" to illustrate that if a guy on mescaline is having the same kinds of dreams as this dude we are talking about, then this guy is obviously not connected either. When someone is on mind-altering drugs, whether legal or illegal, and particularly when illegal, even more subtly when illegal, Satan then has an opening to place thoughts in a persons mind. And as Satan can literally masquerade himself as Christ, then he surely can give a person dreams which seem to be genuine (i.e., from God). That is why, on top of the tests which I have stated above, the test of fruits, which is not actually only what results are present, but, fully thought through, what results would also be produced if that revelation was followed (=Deut 13:1-5). So that is why claims of revelation from God need to be carefully and Biblically examined. Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It's very interesting how some people would like to insist that everything EGW wrote, said, thought, or dreamed emanated from God. Therein lies the problem the Adventist church has in convincing the public that it is not a cult. etc Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 My wife speaks german; so for the benefit of those who do not the german phrase Pam posted above means (approx) Quote: I disagree, but I do not care While that is the translation also provided by Google Translate for “Ich bin nicht einverstanden, doch ist es mir egal” with the word “egal” seeming to literally (i.e., non-colloquially me equal), which makes me suspect that the second phrase literally is saying: “but that is equally the same to me”, then there is the unbiblical issue of “lukewarmly”, indifferently letting error and truth “equally/equivalently” co-habit. Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs **off topic**It's very interesting how some people would like to insist that everything EGW wrote, said, thought, or dreamed emanated from God. Therein lies the problem the Adventist church has in convincing the public that it is not a cult. Ellen White was a human - subject to the same psychological phenomena which we all experience. In a way, it is not surprising that she had many dreams about spiritual things, for that seems to be where her primary waking focus was directed. If it's spoken by her, and is recognized as maybe coming from God, why would we feel the need to try to prove what we notice re: something not really given by God through her. I don't remember anyone getting angry at "Pilgrims Progress" when the story was definitely meant to convey spiritual truths and yet no one believes God specifically spoke through the author. Not sure of this but I seem to remember that Pilgrim's Progress is next only to the Bible as being the most read spiritual book. Feel free to correct me if you know better. It seems as human beings, we make much ado about nothing. If we wish to believe something we repeat is from God, no one need believe it. It isn't our responsibility to make sure any believe as we do. That's the Holy Spirit's responsibility. But it is my responsibility as a disciple of Christ to carry the spoken Word. Else how can I profess myself as being Jesus' disciple. "Still later He appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating together. He rebuked them for their stubborn unbelief because they refused to believe those who had seen him after he had been raised from the dead. And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned."Mark 16:14-16 NLT "Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7 ASB God blesses! The issue involved in that dream of EGW is beyond a question of the quite common, “literary/compostional inspiration” (e.g., sermon illustrations, Christian fictional books and screenplay, even dramatic license), as it also, and explicitly so, involves communicating and receiving messages from the dead. The Bible is clearly against this, and it will be a cornerstone of the Final Deception. So since God never corrected EGW on this matter, nor did she ever say that she had made mistake here (indeed contrary to Ernie Knoll who confessed the error of Candace and was also shown how it was sustainedly inspired by the Devil), then we need to search the Bible and SOP as to why this could and would be a genuine dream and instruction for God. See the reason here. Then one will have (True) ‘“Peace ” [and Safety]’ Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 While that is the translation also provided by Google Translate for “Ich bin nicht einverstanden, doch ist es mir egal” with the word “egal” seeming to literally (i.e., non-colloquially me equal), which makes me suspect that the second phrase literally is saying: “but that is equally the same to me”, then there is the unbiblical issue of “lukewarmly”, indifferently letting error and truth “equally/equivalently” co-habit. Good heavens.. there is not an exact English equivalent for "einverstanden" nor for "egal"... the closest translation of my little German sentence would be: "I am not in agreement with your view, but that is not a problem with me and nothing about which I would bother to argue." That's all...no more, no less. I'm not sure why you are so paranoid... Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Good heavens.. there is not an exact English equivalent for "einverstanden" nor for "egal"... the closest translation of my little German sentence would be: "I am not in agreement with your view, but that is not a problem with me and nothing about which I would bother to argue." That's all...no more, no less. I'm not sure why you are so paranoid... I'm in agreement with you Pam. The little knowledge I have left of my mother tongue, sad to say, is that your translation is what I would've guessed you meant. And also not just paranoid, but defensive to boot. phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Quote: Then one will have (True) ‘“Peace ” [and Safety]’ This morning on the way out of the sanctuary, after a very inspiring hour of involvement with the Sabbath School class, I had the opportunity to spend a few minutes with an Irish person who happened to believe somewhat different about the unfolding of events that will surround the second coming of Christ. Now I could have picked up on his point with the intent of setting him straight about the theology he understood, and ended up totally destroying all of the peace he had received from the earlier discourse of the class study. It seemed to me to be the better part of wisdom to let him bask in the Sonlight of what he had experienced minutes earlier, rather than eclipse his moment of peace just to prove how wrong he was. Then let Jesus give him the time He needs to convince him at a later time of the error of his understanding as he studies the Scripture for himself. Now the appropriateness of the action (or non-action depending on your point of view) would obviously not always be the same. But our own responsibility to make sure everyone else we meet know the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth is largely mitigated by the fact that only Jesus knows the best time to intervene in other people's space, at a time when Jesus knows is best, and using our best sense of logic we need never fear He isn't perfectly capable of picking up to complete the task of what we don't finish, as long as we're depending on Jesus to use our efforts to His glory. We are not going to be saved for eternity by how much we know, or how perfect our understanding is, or how much we do correctly. But our salvation is found in knowing Him Who does know perfectly, and also through Him Who does perfectly what He knows. Preach the Word as is asked of every disciple. But leave the convicting to the Holy Spirit. And I don't believe it is left to us to determine who will be found in the Lambs book of life. Even to Ernie Knoll. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”Matt 13:30 NKJV God blesses! Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2012 Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 And I don't believe it is left to us to determine who will be found in the Lambs book of life. Even to Ernie Knoll. So church discipline (discipling-Matt.28:19,20)is now irrelevant,and we no longer need to worry about false teachers ect...? What does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost And I don't believe it is left to us to determine who will be found in the Lambs book of life. Even to Ernie Knoll. So church discipline (discipling-Matt.28:19,20)is now irrelevant,and we no longer need to worry about false teachers ect...? What does this mean? Just because we do not know if someone will go to Heaven or not - does not mean that we don't discern truth from error. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just because we do not know if someone will go to Heaven or not - does not mean that we don't discern truth from error. If by the word "determine" we mean "select" or "choose" then we probably all agree. If we mean "understand" then we've got a problem. Just looking for some clarity on terms here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 We can't determine nor select nor choose who will go to Heaven. Hope that helps define things. And from looks - I can't understand why any of the sinners will go to Heaven except for by the Grace of God. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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