So why do people fall for people like Ernie Knoll

[NJK Project]

...I think I spend more time reflecting on the life and love of Jesus than a large percentage of Christians do.

To be factual/fair here EC:

(1) I did not spend ‘much time’, (in fact, none before that post beyond a cursory crunching of EGW’s 1 in 20 figure) crunching numbers here. Just plugged them into a spreadsheet what was being, quite specifically stated in Ernie Knoll’s dream. And from an SDA perspective if God had given EGW “light” that not one in 20 were ready in her day, then I saw that these similarly oddly/“random” specific numbers in Knoll’s dream (i.e., 21, 13, 7, 3, 2 instead of e.g., 20, 16, 12, 8, 4) are probably representative of something concrete here, which God can easily know as a fact, and so sw it as worthwhile to ‘plug and let my computer crunch them’. As with the various numbers in Biblical prophecy, if God has bothered to explicitly state them, then they should be carefully pondered, if for nothing else, then, when applicable, as a most sobering/solemn warning.

(2) If you had read my actual, Biblically, fully studied out view on the Shaking of the SDA Church on my blog here, you would have seen that I see that those who will be shaken out of the True Remnant Church are those who are not fully emulating Jesus Christ and doing all that they can to help those in physical and spiritual need in the world today. [Hence indeed the raison d’être for my NJK Project to facilitatingly address that neglected issue.]

[NJK Project]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Ah...me thinks Star Trek has more validity!

Wa-a-a-a-ay more!

Graeme

...and you all know as a concrete fact that that TV Series was pure science fiction...

Not seeing that you can “concretely” say/“prove” (i.e., if you were in a courtroom setting) the same about Ernie Knoll...

[NJK Project]

{CC: enjoining Overaged}

So, give up Sevs: according to NJK, none of you are going to heaven. Pretty sure he believes he is, though.

[NJK Project]

...Notice several inherent/self-obvious “sifting” steps found in just truthfully determining the Christ-like/Christ Following membership of the SDA Church:

(1) Actually Attending

(2) Regularly Attending/Contributing/Participating (vs. spectating and pew warming)

(3) Actively Evangelizing

(4) Missions Working (for many only want to “preach the Gospel message” and not do Christ’s Humanitarian works towards all those in need.

(5) Excess “Sacrificing” for others (for many believe that only what can be done without any self-sacrificial effort should be done)

and there, you easily have your first five steps above...

Throw in a 6th step of: systematic and long term, even (self-)sacrificing, indeed the Jesus Sacrifice level, and you’re indeed at the Ernie Knoll dream level where ‘only a few grains then remain.’ (Cf. Rev 3:10 & 14:12)

[NJK Project]

...(As it is involved in God’s all-wise plan), you yourself are the one who will determine your salvation....

Relatedly: “Our own course of action will determine whether we shall receive the seal of the living God, or be cut down by the destroying weapons.” 5T 212.4

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

every time I see the description of the man in white clothes wearing a chef's hat, this is what always comes to mind (sorry...it just does):

[phkrause]

every time I see the description of the man in white clothes wearing a chef's hat, this is what always comes to mind (sorry...it just does):

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

I agree with you.

[NJK Project]

So it isn’t/wasn’t “Pat Boone”?!!....Well, rudywoofs (cc: pkrause), people give similar “surface and peripheral” reasons to not “get beyond” the symbols of freakish and monstrous beasts in Biblical prophecies.... Not to mention the freakish description of “Jesus” (literally: ‘the one like unto a son of man’) in Rev 1:13-18! So that all cannot begin to be a valid/Biblical reason to not “examine everything carefully”.... (1 Thess 5:21a (NASB))... and manifestly that is what God’s “stumbling block” purpose is in all of this.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Certainly the probability of any of us on this site making it, with a probability of 0.018% of salvation for Seventh-day Adventists, seems pretty slender

Probably for some, it seems reasonable to assume, have been persuaded by this thread that the below promise isn't true.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."Matthew 11:28 NKJV

God blesses!

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Certainly the probability of any of us on this site making it, with a probability of 0.018% of salvation for Seventh-day Adventists, seems pretty slender

Probably for some, it seems reasonable to assume, have been persuaded by this thread that the below promise isn't true.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."Matthew 11:28 NKJV

God blesses!

I may have been a bit obtuse in what I posted: I was attempting to illustrate the logical consequences of NJK Project's claims.

This is *not* something I believe or subscribe to myself.

It's a reductio ad absurdem argument... and one for which it's not necessary to reductio very far...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I may have been a bit obtuse in what I posted: I was attempting to illustrate the logical consequences of NJK Project's claims.

This is *not* something I believe or subscribe to myself.

It's a reductio ad absurdem argument... and one for which it's not necessary to reductio very far...

Thank you for your undeserved explanation, Bravus. Long dissertations weary me and sometimes I neither give the consideration I ought to the well thought out logic, nor am I wise enough to always answer with the best attitude. I'm more likely to consider with a homily like this, even though the dissertation deserves better.

"They don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." Author unknown

God blesses! And even though it is over, I hope you had a

[NJK Project]

Probably for some, it seems reasonable to assume, have been persuaded by this thread that the below promise isn't true.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."Matthew 11:28 NKJV

On one hand, one text does not make a theology, on the other hand, to obtain that [sabbatical] rest of Christ, one has to actually accept His/its terms (e.g,. Isa 58 & Matt 25:31-46) and abide in them. (John 15:1-11). Or else one is simply, conversely fulfilling Isa 28:12-13 (Jer 6:16; Isa 30:15; 32:17; Heb 3:7-4:13)

People basely want to/ think that they can ‘come to Jesus’ own their own terms, and/or then set their own “abiding” terms...

[NJK Project]

I may have been a bit obtuse in what I posted: I was attempting to illustrate the logical consequences of NJK Project's claims.

This is *not* something I believe or subscribe to myself.

It's a reductio ad absurdem argument... and one for which it's not necessary to reductio very far...

The spiritually evident problem with your comment was that your logic and rationale was purely human and was not Biblically weighing things here as God has shown he stringently does (Ezek 9 et. al.) So based on that Biblical precedence and standard, and indeed by the straightforwardly simple sample criteria listed in Post #557360 it is quite easy to see how very few would pass Christ’s/God’s investigative judgement for those who pass will have to be living up to all of the Full Gospel Light brought forth thus far to God’s people today and not, e.g., ‘simply be looking out for a Sunday Law’. The Bible and SOP testimony is copiously, consistently and unambiguously, warningly clear that all but very few will make it through God’s multi-staged (as revealed in Knoll’s dream) “Shakings” (Cf. Heb 12:25-29)

[NJK Project]

"They don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." Author unknown

I hope you are not therewith/from believing, as it is irrationally, “self-pity-partyingly” popular and common that, ‘not correspondingly/fittingly warning or correcting someone [i.e., matching what their “stupor” level of indifference and obliviousness is demonstrating] shows ‘how much you actually, really care about them’‘.... Jesus has been and is clearly, warningly, saying the same thing, and in the same way, through His various enduring and latest Testimonies (e.g., Matt 25:31-46; DA 825.4)

...And ‘burying one’s head in the sand’, especially vexatiously, will never begin to be a valid reason for ignoring/not studying out a Biblical exposition.

[Bravus]

God is 'not willing that any should perish'. Jesus says to go out to the highways and byways and *compel* them to come in. This God you portray creating layers and layers of tests designed to keep as many as possible *out* of the Kingdom is a flawed human creation unrelated to the God who made the ultimate sacrifice to save as many as possible.

[LifeHiscost]

I'm of the deep conviction of the truth of what you have posted.

Here is a quote from the post you have commented on that draws to my mind the position found in the next following biblical scenario.

Quote:

not Biblically weighing things here as God has shown he stringently does

"“Then he who had received....came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man....'"

Matthew 25:24 NKJV

It seems so important to me to remember there is no Word spoken of by God that is not only important but essential, that no matter how close and vigilant I try to walk in the path Jesus has chosen for me, it will be but by grace that I at last enter into the heavenly home where is our citizenship.

If I do not recognize this, I need beware of the possibility of these Words below.

"‘By the words from your own mouth I must say that you are guilty. You are a sinful servant. You knew I was a hard man. "Luke 19:21-23 NLV

God blesses!

[NJK Project]

God is 'not willing that any should perish'. Jesus says to go out to the highways and byways and *compel* them to come in. This God you portray creating layers and layers of tests designed to keep as many as possible *out* of the Kingdom is a flawed human creation unrelated to the God who made the ultimate sacrifice to save as many as possible.

Bravus, before you can presume to pass any judgement, you first will need to learn how to properly read, comprehend exegete the Biblical text, since it is you are the one who has selectively, isolatively and subjectively, eisegetically fashioned a god according to your human thinking and preference. I.e., Read the context of the texts you have cited: (2 Pet 3:9 & Matt 22:9 if you do not know where they are).

2 Pet 3:7-10 - God delays due judgement (as with the Shaking of the SDA Church) because he is not willing that any should perish however there still remains the fact that judgement is still due, particularly if there is no repentance and acceptance of God’s saving way. (John 3:16-21 - based on the OT episode of God’s saving method of ‘looking unto a raised serpent to live’ (John 3:14-15)

Matt 22:1-14 First of all, the Greek word you thinks says compel merely says “call/invite”. Only those who are then willing to come are accepted. And, most significantly here, there had been two effective shakings prior to that 3rd “highway and byway” call, ending in the utter destruction of those who had refused those two calls. And then in that 3rd call itself, there was another “sifting” by the Feast Master resulting in a guest who was wanting to go by his own ways being thrown out into hellish outer darkness. So as the SOP uses that parable (COL 219-252), it is reflective of the Investigative Judgement, which is the Judgement which punctuates the multi-phased Sifting process of, first, the Remnant Church. So as that parable punctuatedly (literally) says: ‘Many are the called ones, (but) few are the choice ones. (Matt 22:14)

And as I discuss in this post the death extent of Christ’s sacrifice was only because man (i.e., pointedly the Jews) were not willing at all to accept God’s/Christ’s, actually simple and humble terms for their salvation. His (atoning) death was actually a developmental aberration and not a default necessity.

So God is indeed ‘not willing’.... hence His strong and stern warnings (Ezek 33:1-20; cf. PK 129-143) so the question then, as always is... Are you also willing??! I.e., on Christ’s Terms... for if not, then He has not other just choice but to deal without mixture the deserved consequences (Luke 19:41-44 = Isa 63:1-6), and the more light a person/group has, the more severe and less merciful that punishment will be. (Cf. 1 Pet 4:17-18)

And: ‘Truth is much more than important, it is paramount!’

[NJK Project]

I'm of the deep conviction of the truth of what you have posted.

Here is a quote from the post you have commented on that draws to my mind the position found in the next following biblical scenario.

Quote:

not Biblically weighing things here as God has shown he stringently does

"“Then he who had received....came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man....'"

Matthew 25:24 NKJV

It seems so important to me to remember there is no Word spoken of by God that is not only important but essential, that no matter how close and vigilant I try to walk in the path Jesus has chosen for me, it will be but by grace that I at last enter into the heavenly home where is our citizenship.

If I do not recognize this, I need beware of the possibility of these Words below.

"‘By the words from your own mouth I must say that you are guilty. You are a sinful servant. You knew I was a hard man. "Luke 19:21-23 NLV

God blesses!

Glad to hear LifeHisCost! Good Textual support. And I exegetically am seeing here that the “hardness” of God depicted by Jesus in that parable is best understood in the context of God is expecting His servants to properly handle and increase the various talents and resources that he has entrusted them with. (=LDE 59-61) And so, like any rational business person, he is strict about seeing that his work be properly done or else it will be bad for his business. Which for God is saving people and besting their lives. (John 10:10)

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

God is expecting His servants to properly handle and increase the various talents

Understood. How I long for the day when I can look over the past 24 hours (week, month, year, etc) when I can say, "I've done it the way you have asked, Father."

"And when the living creatures shall give glory and honor and thanks to him that sitteth on the throne, to him that liveth for ever and ever,

the four and twenty elders shall fall down before him that sitteth on the throne, and shall worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and shall cast their crowns before the throne..."Revelation 4:9-11 ASV

I'm satisfied to believe, the crowns being awarded to those who overcome, the reason for casting them before the feet of Him Who was and is and will be forever more, is because they recognize nothing that was evident in their lives that has any thing worthy of note, and that which Jesus accomplished within them.

"[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight.

"Philippians 2:13 AMP Brackets their's LHC

God blesses!

[NJK Project]

Interesting way of seeing this here LHC... It is making me (further/also) think that, as this is to be reflective of an attitude that should be had on earth by those who will be saved...namely: ‘whatever status, height or position we may attain on earth, it is all to be placed at the feet of Jesus for Him to do and use them however He sees fit.’

And, as stated in EW 289, this is then actually being done by the redeemed to show that Christ’s own travail and sacrifice to redeem lost people was infinitely greater than whatever they had to go through, even if their work was key in helping to bring about the fullness of that harvest’s work.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

God is 'not willing that any should perish'. Jesus says to go out to the highways and byways and *compel* them to come in. This God you portray creating layers and layers of tests designed to keep as many as possible *out* of the Kingdom is a flawed human creation unrelated to the God who made the ultimate sacrifice to save as many as possible.

Bravus, before you can presume to pass any judgement, you first will need to learn how to properly read, comprehend exegete the Biblical text, since it is you are the one who has

Actually; Bravus has done no different than you have here. he has quoted or referred directly to several Bible texts in order to portray how he sees the many examples here of innapropriate scripture-whipping theology being touted as "truth."

The kind of God that our friend Bravus describes as seeing here is not his being "judgmental;" it is simply Bravus, saying what he sees here. It is not wrong for Bravus to do this; and I am afraid to say also; that I agree with him. Jesus actually does say to go out to the highways and byways and *compel* them to come in. There's nothing any of us can do about that except to obey our Lord. We could, I suppose, choose to stay on this forum, and fill it full of acusations against those who quote the words of Jesus.

[JawgeFromJawja]

A lot of ya'll seem to spend a lot of valuable time and energy crunching numbers, trying to figure out the shakings and the siftings and looking for the most dubious and dire meanings in the scriptures. It seems pretty obvious that since so many people come up with completely different answers that no-one has a real clue as to what they are talking about. But be sure it will all spell doom and gloom to all but a chosen few. No-one can agree on who those chosen few are though. Will they be chosen because of faith? Will they be chosen because of works? Will they be legalists? Will they be conservitive or liberal? 

I get reading all this and sometimes get to laughing because I am not a Christian and I think I spend more time reflecting on the life and love of Jesus than a large percentage of Christians do.

But “be sure it will all spell doom and gloom to all but a chosen few?”

Dear mercy of God, you don't know the love and mercy of God. I realize that Jesus said,

Mat_7:14 “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

In this passage, the operative word is “find”. Here, Jesus said nothing about a “chosen few”. God's mercy and love being what they are (ineffable, incomprehensible)

Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Isa 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

Isa 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

“-- wipe away tears from off all faces;” – Interesting. All faces. “All”? That's an awful lotta people.

But look:

 Isa. 55: 10, 11 As the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth and makes it bring forth and bud that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth, it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

How about free will? Well, yes, free will obtains for the present life. You can practice free will with as much ignorance, foolishness, and stupidity as you will. But our loving and merciful God allows for the ignorance, foolishness and even stupidity of his children. He will not let any perish.

Ultimately God's word, God's desires, will be irrevocably accomplished. So what is God's will?

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Similar passages are found throughout The Bible to reassure those who do not want to languish in doom and gloom: God's ultimate will is inevitable, and his will is that all be saved.

Don't talk to me of Scripturally untenable doctrines and tales of gloom and doom. My Bibles (King James, New International Version, God's Word, The Geneva Bible, and on and on) is replete with the joyful message, the Gospel, of God's mercy and forgiveness, a freely given gift founded on the sacrificial death of His Son.

Over and over again, I admonish Christians to read The Bible. Cover to cover. Read it through repeatedly. Under guidance of The Holy Spirit, and prayerfully. After three to five readings, the activity becomes a joy. It's the only certain way to cover all of God's written word. It's the only way to circumvent the nonsense, poor interpretations, and outright ignorance of all (no exceptions) churches.

Jawge from Jawja

A heretical Baptist

Sola scriptura!

[M. T. Cross]

A lot of ya'll seem to spend a lot of valuable time and energy crunching numbers, trying to figure out the shakings and the siftings and looking for the most dubious and dire meanings in the scriptures. It seems pretty obvious that since so many people come up with completely different answers that no-one has a real clue as to what they are talking about. But be sure it will all spell doom and gloom to all but a chosen few. No-one can agree on who those chosen few are though. Will they be chosen because of faith? Will they be chosen because of works? Will they be legalists? Will they be conservitive or liberal? 

I get reading all this and sometimes get to laughing because I am not a Christian and I think I spend more time reflecting on the life and love of Jesus than a large percentage of Christians do.

But “be sure it will all spell doom and gloom to all but a chosen few?”

Dear mercy of God, you don't know the love and mercy of God. I realize that Jesus said,

Mat_7:14 “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

In this passage, the operative word is “find”. Here, Jesus said nothing about a “chosen few”. God's mercy and love being what they are (ineffable, incomprehensible)

Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Isa 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

Isa 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

“-- wipe away tears from off all faces;” – Interesting. All faces. “All”? That's an awful lotta people.

[Overaged]

BTW I have read the Bible at least 5 times and found it more tedious and depressing each time. Thats just me though. I know many find a great deal of beauty in it and I think that is awesome.

And I, for one, love the way you bring out that beauty that you see in the Bible. LOL, I am sorry. I had a slight chuckle at your expense. You said the term "Christian humans." LOL, what other kinds of Christians are there?

[Overaged]

Don't talk to me of Scripturally untenable doctrines and tales of gloom and doom. My Bibles (King James, New International Version, God's Word, The Geneva Bible, and on and on) is replete with the joyful message, the Gospel, of God's mercy and forgiveness, a freely given gift founded on the sacrificial death of His Son.

You say you are a "heretical baptist;" but this post is far from "heretical." (just sayin')