Moderators Bravus Posted June 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2008 At the current Jerusalem meeting a large number of Anglican bishops have made a declaration separating themselves from the main body of the Anglican denomination and making provision for congregations in, e.g., America to be under bishops from Africa or other parts of the world. The key issue is attitudes to homosexuals and homosexuality. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted June 30, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...-Jerusalem.html Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...-Jerusalem.html A central part of the report: Traditionalists who do attend Lambeth, such as the head of the church in South America - the Archbishop of the Southern Cone, the Most Rev Gregory Venables - who has already taken conservative American dioceses under his wing, will use the opportunity to spell out to Dr Williams the demands of the new movement. They say the split was triggered by clergy in the Episcopal Church - the main Anglican church in America - who in an attempt to reflect progressive ideas in society and make themselves relevant to younger churchgoers, began departing from the traditional Bible view that homosexuality is sinful. Some have denied the resurrection of Jesus Christ took place. The Lambeth Conference of 1998 ruled that same-sex unions went against Scripture. But then five years later the Americans consecrated the openly gay Gene Robinson as the Bishop of New Hampshire while clergy in Canada began blessing gay "weddings". An official investigation - the Windsor Report - ruled in 2004 they must not support gay clergy or same-sex unions but no disciplinary action was taken, while a "covenant" spelling out rules for Anglicanism and punishments for churches who break them has still not been adopted despite conservatives' demands. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 1, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2008 To a fair extent this is playing out as the more-conservative church in the developing world (Africa in this instance) losing patience with the liberal church in the developed world (America and Canada, mainly, for the Anglicans). Could this happen to the SDA church over the ordination of women? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 1, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2008 I think both your points are well taken. But it is not only members in Africa or other undeveloped areas who believe the church is turning its back on Bible truth on those issues. Personally I don't think the truth on these issues, such as women's ordination and homosexuality, can be decided by vote. For instance, suppose that the majority of the church voted against the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ. Such a vote only determines what the majority of those who voted believe; but it can't determine what the truth is. A lot of people in the churches don't even know or care what the Bible teaches on these subjects, much less study it and try to put it into practice. My best friend of 30 years is an agnostic or atheist, and he talks the same about these things as some people in the church. There is no absolute truth; all is subjective; and no one really knows anything for sure, certainly not whether there is a god or who he/she is, or what this god likes or dislikes. Everything is relative, including morality, etc. etc. No one can really know for sure if what the Bible says is true; and in fact, it's all anyone's opinion what it says. This kind of thinking is becoming common both outside and inside the church, even with many inside the SDA church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 1, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2008 I agree with you on that point. I'd extend it to the Bible's teaching on how we treat the poor, and a few other personal pet issues - the views of a majority of people in the churches don't change what the Bible actually teaches. I certainly don't think the West has any monopoly on enlightenment. To take new stances on the issues of homosexuality and women's ordination is to take a new stance on Scripture and how it is to be interpreted, I don't think there's any dancing around that. So as much as these are social issues, played out within democratic structures, they are also theological issues in which good Biblical scholarship is essential. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I just heard Gene Robinson on NPR on my way from work. What many christians dont understand on the other side of the issue is that many,many gays long for the Spiritual. They want to know GOD! They know this world is'nt it. There is something else!!! AMEN! So they went to church only to be ostracised and so they organized their own churches. In masses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 2, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 2, 2008 I think one of the hardest things for all the Christian churches to understand has been that even while God commands us to teach the truth about sin and righteousness, yet God loves gays and commands all Christ's followers to love gays (read: agape) and to treat them with the same care or respect that they do anyone else. It is illustrated in Jesus' treatment of the woman caught in adultery. He didn't condone her sin but neither did he "condemn" her. I have no doubt that Jesus would have done the same to a gay person if that had been the issue in John 8. In some ways it could be said that the way some leaders in the Christian church have approached this issue has encourage some people to think it is right in God's eyes to say and do bad things to gay people. I see evidence that this is beginning to change, and I'm thankful for it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 The churches need the Holy Spirit to love. It is outside of them. Its easy to love your friends and family but not people we dont understand or underestimate.Only God's love for homos can lift them up. God loves them like HE loves you! Have christians not known GODS love for them? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? yes! The proof is in the plum pudding! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 2, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 2, 2008 The churches need the Holy Spirit to love. It is outside of them. Its easy to love your friends and family but not people we dont understand.... No question about that. It's impossible to have that kind of love apart from the Holy Spirit. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 "The greatest want in the world is the want of men. Men who will not be bought or sold Men who in their inmost souls are true and honest. Men who do not fear to call sin by its right name. Men who's conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole. Men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall." og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 3, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 3, 2008 Like Joseph. But look where it got him for a while. Yet it also made him one whom God could use to His honor and glory. Like the 144,000 in Rev. 7 &14. No guile or falsehood found in their mouths. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 3, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted July 3, 2008 Again, there's a bit of false logic here. Stubbornness for God may be laudable - but sometimes stubbornness is just stubbornness. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 3, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 3, 2008 Yes, that is true, if it is indeed stubbornness. But in some cases, I think you will agree that what some consider stubbornness, others would consider an heroic standing by one's principles or by the truth as one sees the truth. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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