Moderators Bravus Posted August 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted August 29, 2008 According to former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/america-has-lost-its-way-in-the-world-20080828-44zk.html?page=-1 (He was a Liberal Party (conservative) Prime Minister. To me he represents the thoughtful, moral face of conservatism.) Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Nan Posted August 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted August 29, 2008 An interesting read, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yeah, I think he's exactly right. We've sacrificed the long term for the short term. I like how Bill Clinton put it this week - the world used to respect us for the power of our example, not the example of our power. What GW has done to us is sad and scary. Sometimes I think the whole world can see it clearly except our own citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Quote: He was a Liberal Party (conservative) Prime Minister How can a conservative belong to a liberal party? Isn't that an oxymoron? Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Quote: What GW has done to us is sad and scary. Sometimes I think the whole world can see it clearly except our own citizens. This is where the missionary programs of the Adventist Church come into play, at least for me...I understand from their perspective what some of the average person from outside the US are thinking. They [those from outside the US] tend to be more liberal than the US, where as here in the US, the liberal tend to be more educated and have broaden thier horizons, so to speak. It's the uneducated that tend to follow the conservative leadership...Which I really don't understand. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 The author first goes wrong by his presumption that the UN is a good vehicle for world peace. So long as the five permanent members of the UN have a veto power, any of those five can prevent the UN from taking any action against any state. The Iraq War is a perfect example of the UN failing because of this flaw. Saddam was able to bribe members of Security Council so that they would veto any action that threatened a UN war against him. Thus the UN became crippled and useless. The solution is to change the rules which would allow a 75% vote by the UN Security Council to override a veto by one of the five permanent members. The entire article is based on the author's disagreement with the War on Terror and the Iraq War. If America's biggest offense is getting rid of a ruthless dictator, replacing him with a autonomous democracy and going after terrorists, I would say America is still a noble nation. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 30, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2008 To Shane: I think if you read carefully, what Mr Fraser is saying is that the United Nations was a good start and a step in the right direction, but that there was more work to be done, which I think largely agrees with your position, although whether the solution is reform of the existing United Nations or some alternative body/mechanism is up for debate. And if America is internationally known as a nation that tortures? Where is the nobility in that? To Amelia: Quote: How can a conservative belong to a liberal party? Isn't that an oxymoron? The Liberal Party is the party of the Right in Australia. That may still place it to the left of much of American politics... I think the word 'Liberal' has an older sense than 'opposite of conservative'. A 'liberal education', for example, has little to do with politics, and much to do with breadth of knowledge and vision. The Labor Party is the party of the Left in Australia. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I am against torture, as I have stated here before. Both McCain and Obama are against torture. So I think this issue will soon be a non-issue. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 It lost it's way quite some time ago, and it has little to do with external/internal politics, and has more to do with moral degradation... it is simply failing morally. That's why the Muslim countries view the west with disdain. The "western way of life" is associated with "loose morality". I.E. the marital fidelity is a non-issue. You have commercials on TV advertising agencies that help people to find an affair if they are unhappy with their current relationship. Compared to mere 50 years ago ... the moral degradation level is staggering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 This is a world-wide issue ... not just an American one. Could you name a country that doesn't have these kinds of issues? I've been to many countries and the US is still the best. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 9, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 9, 2008 That is at least somewhat the consequences of a free society that allows people to make bad choices. Christians can't control society and their neighbors. Where would you want to live-- in America where you have freedom to choose or in a Muslim country where the freedom to choose is taken away? It is up to the church, by straight preaching of the gospel, to bring people to choose good; it is not up to the government to legislate moral or religious issues. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 9, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 9, 2008 I agree. That is why most people want to live here. Last time I checked they were trying to get in, not get out. That's rather a good sign yet. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I agree. That is why most people want to live here. Last time I checked they were trying to get in, not get out. That's rather a good sign yet. WELL spoken Sir, og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2008 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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