Woody Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Quote: DELTA:You know in today's Adventist world, there are still no accurate reasons why the tithe and offerings in liberal SDA churches are usually less than tithing in conservative's. Could it be that liberals pay tithe and offerings but you just don't know it because it is not reported? Perhaps they don't give it to the SDA Church. They may believe in Ellen White's statement ... Quote: "There are those who have means, and who will give large and small sums. Have this money come direct to your destitute portion of the vineyard. The Lord has not specified any regular channel through which means should pass." SpM 498. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Who does the labeling of 'liberal' vs. 'conservative' ? Who does? Well, you know the answer! I just wondering more and more why in some of the SDA churches as well as in our institutions it is illegal (for real) to preach the everlasting gospel of the three angels' messages. I am sorry, but the real fact such as in La Sierra University, Pacific Union College, Loma linda, etc. there in the main sanctuaries it is 100% not allowed at all when anyone try to proclaim about the babylon, mark of the beast, sanctuary, sabbath, USA in Bible Prophecy, who are Jesuits, Spirit of Prophecy, spiritualism, etc. Not to say stay the liberal churches attack the fundamental beliefs, but their attitude is to stay away from our own present truth by saying: "Let's talk more and more about Jesus...and less and less about any doctrine"!!! Thus, this attitute make the testimony of Jesus of no effect. I know you don't wanna believe the facts but at least most of the liberal church have the file of the recorded sermons and who's the preacher at the time....And you can check by yourself what are the preachers talking about. The sermons almost always talking about Love, Grace, New Theology, Mercy. Nothing wrong about these beautiful stuffs. But to stay away from the special job God given us, the Seventh Day Adventists Church, this is a good news or a bad news? Why are you a Seventh-day Adventist, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Quote: in our institutions it is illegal (for real) to preach the everlasting gospel of the three angels' messages. I agree with you that this would be terrible. Illegal to preach the entire Bible? Could you please provide a source as I would be very interested in this. Apparently my spouse didn't get the memo. But it is something I should pass around if it is true. Quote: in the main sanctuaries it is 100% not allowed Please give me the reference ... I would be interested. Quote: "Let's talk more and more about Jesus...and less and less about any doctrine"!!! I think that EGW would agree with this statement. You have to take new babes step by step. Quote: I know you don't wanna believe the facts I dunno. But if you could provide some references then we might know what the "fact" are. Quote: The sermons almost always talking about Love, Grace, New Theology, Mercy. Sounds good to me. We need to lead babes step by step. And SO many do not even know these things. And it would be good to reflect on these. Quote: in the main sanctuaries it is 100% not allowed at all when anyone try to proclaim about ... who are Jesuits, This is a new one for me. Is this one of the new Fundamentals? Is this part of the New Theology? If this is true ... I am glad to hear it. This is the most important thing to have established. And so many are missing out. If all they understood was 666 before knowing this ... what a shame. Quote: Why are you a Seventh-day Adventist, anyway? For myself ... I want to share the GOOD NEWS. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hi dear Redwood, As I told you, just do your own research...Visiting their website maybe is too easy for you. But if you may have time please also visit the church offices e.g.: La Sierra Univ.Church, Pacific Union College, Loma Linda Univ.Church, etc. Then ask a question to the officers such as "When was the last Revelation seminar in this church and when shall be the next one?" or something like that. I know you're demanding a source or reference of why they really hate the Adventist message. Yet in case you have time you can directly ask by yourself to any of the senior pastor of the institutions, sooner or later you will witnessing that the Three Angels' messages is 100% illegal to be preached there and it's not a rumor at all. Again, I already challenge you but if you still don't believe the facts in front of your eyes, well, that's your business. We still be friend. God Bless You Note: I got the infos that some of the SDA Universities/Colleges/Schools in N.America started to make negative pressures and stay away from our Present Truth since the year of 1989 soon after an Evangelical Group was invited for the very first time ever to one of our universities in So.California and some of that evangelical pastors preached in certain SDA churches there and held seminars as well. But I don't verified this information yet. Need to be clarified. But to make something like Daniel and Revelation seminar, "Mark of the Beast", "USA in Prophecy seminar", "Who are jesuits" seminar; those are pretty much illegal there and should not be allowed anymore. And that's the fact and not even a rumor. Just go and ask directly to the senior pastors of the institutions. They must say no but never give us the answers why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Now let me also ask to myself: "Why are you a Seventh-Day Adventist? Are there any distinctive Biblical messages God has given to the church for this time?" and "What is your responsibility to tell to the world?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 11, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 11, 2008 ....I just wondering more and more why in some of the SDA churches as well as in our institutions it is illegal (for real) to preach the everlasting gospel of the three angels' messages. I am sorry, but the real fact such as in La Sierra University, Pacific Union College, Loma linda, etc. there in the main sanctuaries it is 100% not allowed at all when anyone try to proclaim about the babylon, mark of the beast, sanctuary, sabbath, USA in Bible Prophecy, who are Jesuits, Spirit of Prophecy, spiritualism, etc.... I live near Loma Linda and attended all three schools, PUC, La Sierra, and Loma Linda U. I often attend church in both the University Church and the Hill Church. I've been going to them since I was 10. I've never heard anyone being told in either church not to teach or preach the gospel of the three angels' messages. However, I believe I know what you are referring to: there is a difference in some of the churches in Southern California on the emphasis they give. I once called about 10 different church in this area and asked the pastors how often they studied or preached about the heavenly sanctuary and the 3 angels messages. I found only about 3 that said they studied it recently. I'd be interested in knowing if you attend these churches or if you live near them. I live only about half an hour away. Despite these differences, I love all the Adventist churches here and I love the people, including the pastors, some of whom I know personally. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 It does seem strange to make statements of 'fact' and then tell me to go and prove it myself. But, it just so happens that I personally know some of the people you have referred me to. I've talked to them recently and they do not confirm your story. I have attended each and every one of the churches that you listed. I did not find what you have said to be true. But if you have references ... then I would gladly consider what you say. But so far I just have rumor. BTW. Have you attended the churches you referred me to? Like I say ... this family did not receive the memo that you are talking about ... so the sermons go on without this consideration. The church is correctly redefining the way we present the Adventist message perhaps. I think that is always a good thing. We need to share the message that God loves us and died for our sins. But we can always learn to present it in a fashion that the culture will understand best. EGW was supportive of this. Our present truth keeps growing. I agree that it is 'present' truth that needs to be shared. I am glad to hear that Evangelicals have been preaching in our churches. I think that is good. We have much we can learn from them. The more evangelical we can be the better. Most churches I have been to will have non-SDAs speak at times. I think that is good. We can speak at their churches at times also. But I can think of better topics than who are the Jesuits. I prefer to study all the other rich topics rather than that one. So, I guess you and I are different. And that is fine. May God go with you .... But remember that EGW said to have a thoughtful hour each day studying the life of Christ ... not studying 'who are the Jesuits'. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 11, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 11, 2008 ..... But to make something like Daniel and Revelation seminar, "Mark of the Beast", "USA in Prophecy seminar", "Who are jesuits" seminar; those are pretty much illegal there and should not be allowed anymore. And that's the fact and not even a rumor. Just go and ask directly to the senior pastors of the institutions. They must say no but never give us the answers why. Based on my experience here in Loma Linda, I think I can tell you what is happening. It is not that all those people no longer believe in the Spirit of prophecy or in the mark of beast, etc., (although there are those who do not), but rather they believe that it is best to give emphasis to what they see as the gospel of Christ. They say that they are not comfortable with the confrontational nature of the the more traditional ways of communicating the three angels message with its attacks on the Catholic church, the Jesuits, etc. Most of them would say those ideas are no longer valid because they fail to take into account the changes in the thinking of Catholics today. Therefore they seek a more loving, "softer" way to communicate the gospel and the three angels messages. They would say that the message they give is not any less the 3 angels messages because it is more loving and kinder and more considerate. They view it as a more Christ-like way of communicating those truths. It should be remembered that not all the churches in this area are the same. My wife is Mexican so we sometimes attend the Spanish church in Loma Linda, where you will find a more "traditional SDA" view given. Then there is the Mentone church which also often teaches about the heavenly sanctuary, and here you will find the pamphlets of Joe Cruz and Doug Batchelor displayed and given away. I myself like those. Some do not. But you will notice that you can buy the Bible studies on the Mark of the Beast and the other topics you mentioned, at the local ABC (in Loma Linda). Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Yes, the Mentone church is what one might call "conservative". Talking about Loma Linda, have you ever heard of Advent HOPE Sabbath School? This is a group of mostly students from the university who get together every Sabbath morning at 9:00am to study the Word of God and they have added a short sermonette, as well. Their meetings are held at Burden Hall. Pay them a visit sometime. I'm sure you will find a blessing there. Have you heard of Restoration? It is a series of evangelistic meetings held every year at the Loma Linda University campus and yes, it's present truth. Also I noticed that no one seems to know about www.Audioverse.org where you can find most of your favorite speakers online like David Assherick, Doug Batchelor, Peter Gregory, David Gates, Mark Finley, Frazee, etc. And the best part of it is that you can download any or all of them FREE !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2008 Yes, the Mentone church is what one might call "conservative". Talking about Loma Linda, have you ever heard of Advent HOPE Sabbath School? This is a group of mostly students from the university who get together every Sabbath morning at 9:00am to study the Word of God and they have added a short sermonette, as well. Their meetings are held at Burden Hall. Pay them a visit sometime. I'm sure you will find a blessing there. Have you heard of Restoration? It is a series of evangelistic meetings held every year at the Loma Linda University campus and yes, it's present truth. Also I noticed that no one seems to know about www.Audioverse.org where you can find most of your favorite speakers online like David Assherick, Doug Batchelor, Peter Gregory, David Gates, Mark Finley, Frazee, etc. And the best part of it is that you can download any or all of them FREE !!! Great to know ALL of that, Peace. Yes I did know about the different Sabbath Schools in Loma Linda. There is also a similar one near the Library. I haven't been to Burden Hall in a few years. They've had different Sabbath School classes there. I am glad to hear what you say about it. When I was a kid, that's where the University Church met until they built the main church building. It was only a few hundred people in those days. Now it is several thousand. The University church has tried to provide different kinds of Sabbath Schools so that everyone can find one they like. But some people don't hear about them. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanOfPC Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I've always been partial to Lyle Albrecht although others have their strong points. Pastors Bohr, Boonstra, McMahon, Batchelor, Asscherick, and even Jac Colon have great strong points and I listen to them all but Pastor Lyle is one I've known from childhood, seen preach, and met personally. It's hard to beat his heart & fire personality combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I like Lyle Albrecht. I like them all, black, white, whoever. If someone is courageous enoughm, and talented enough to forego popularity and riches to tell the truth, the present truth, I am in their corner. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I agree ... but what is present truth for one is not present truth for another. Of course the problem is that the present keeps getting moved. Tomorrow will be the 'present' of tomorrow. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2008 Are you uncertain in your own mind about what Present Truth is, or are you saying that many other people do not agree with you? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 No. I realize that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. It is his followers and their misunderstandings of Him that I have issue with. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2008 OK, we're in agreement about Christ. But that is not what Ellen White and Seventh-day Adventists mean by "Present Truth." Christ has always been the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The present truth during Noah's day was that if you didn't get into the ark, you would get very wet and then die. Present Truth in 27 AD was that you should repent and believe the gospel that John the Baptist and then Jesus were preaching. Present Truth today is the Three Angels Messages, which is both the imputed and the imparted righteousness of Christ It includes the health message, the Sabbath, the Investigative Judgment, and the preparation for the Second Coming. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_in_RP Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Also I noticed that no one seems to know about www.Audioverse.org where you can find most of your favorite speakers online like David Assherick, Doug Batchelor, Peter Gregory, David Gates, Mark Finley, Frazee, etc. And the best part of it is that you can download any or all of them FREE !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Yes. How about the women preachers. I could recommend a few. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush4hire Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I found most of the practitioners of it to be doing it in order to receive material blessings. I was very surprised and disgusted by that aspect of it. Their "testimony" was all centered on how much money they made or what good luck they had because of their chanting. Quote I cant make a sig with 30 chrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 13, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 13, 2008 Good post, Rush. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush4hire Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 Present Truth today is the Three Angels Messages, which is both the imputed and the imparted righteousness of Christ It includes the health message, the Sabbath, the Investigative Judgment, and the preparation for the Second Coming. Quote I cant make a sig with 30 chrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 13, 2008 Moderators Share Posted September 13, 2008 I liked and agreed with your post until you got into the subject of Boostra and David Koresh. Do you know what Doug Batchelor believes regarding David Koresh? Is it possible that Doug Batchelor would agree with Boostra about that topic? What if he did? Have you ever met and talked with Doug Batchelor personally? My brother in law used to jog with him nearly every morning, and I met him and talked with him one Sabbath when he visited Loma Loma. As you might expect, he is a very friendly, thoughtful person, no different in person than he is on TV. He's real. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Quote: John 13:34 " A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. " John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another." Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." 1 Thess. 4:9 " But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another. " 1 Pet. 1:22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:" 1 John 3:11 "For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. " 1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." 1 John 4:7-12 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 2 John 1:5 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. " Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush4hire Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I liked and agreed with your post until you got into the subject of Boonstra and David Koresh. Quote I cant make a sig with 30 chrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush4hire Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 I liked and agreed with your post until you got into the subject of Boostra and David Koresh. When are you going to tell what you disagree with? Did David Koresh actually say he was the incarnation of Christ? Where's the video or audio? Do you have this? Where's the evidence? Where did Shawn Boonstra get his information? Maybe he just made it up. I guess that's what we must assume. I think you owe me an explanation. You need to stop throwing poo in a person's face and then just running away. OK? Quote I cant make a sig with 30 chrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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