Why I'll be voting for Obama

[Dr. Shane]

I've never been able to figure out why abortion is a litmus test for so many.

This is very very easy. Some people not only believe that abortion is murder, they believe if they vote for someone that supports abortion than they (the voter) will be guilty in the eyes of God for that murder.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

I've never been able to figure out why abortion is a litmus test for so many.

It's the inherent Constitutional right over one's own body.

The body of a unborn fetus is not the same as that of a pregnant mother. A simple DNA test will put that debate to end rather quickly. The question is when does the infant/fetus gain human rights. In some societies children do not gain human rights until they are two years old.

[Neil D]

..... but how does being anti-abortion make a candidate better? Does that mean he/she will bring the country closer to God?

This is a legitimate question....Is the voter voting to bring the nation to God [iOWs, to "evangelize" the nation?] or is the voter to vote on issues affecting the nation [iOWs, keeping the separation from church and state]?

Personally, I like to keep the church and state thingy separate.......

Which then makes the abortion issue more a personal issue and one that the government does not need to interfere between doctor and patient.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

I've never been able to figure out why abortion is a litmus test for so many.

This is very very easy. Some people not only believe that abortion is murder, they believe if they vote for someone that supports abortion than they (the voter) will be guilty in the eyes of God for that murder.

Is that different from voting for someone whose policies kill innocent life in other ways - such as a war, or such as the death penalty?

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

..... but how does being anti-abortion make a candidate better? Does that mean he/she will bring the country closer to God?

This is a legitimate question....Is the voter voting to bring the nation to God [iOWs, to "evangelize" the nation?] or is the voter to vote on issues affecting the nation [iOWs, keeping the separation from church and state]?

Personally, I like to keep the church and state thingy separate.......

Which then makes the abortion issue more a personal issue and one that the government does not need to interfere between doctor and patient.

So a person's views on abortion are pretty directly related to their views on the separation of church & state? I never thought of it quite like that before, but it does make some sense.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

This is a legitimate question....Is the voter voting to bring the nation to God [iOWs' date=' to "evangelize" the nation?'] or is the voter to vote on issues affecting the nation [iOWs, keeping the separation from church and state]?

Personally, I like to keep the church and state thingy separate.......

Which then makes the abortion issue more a personal issue and one that the government does not need to interfere between doctor and patient.

So a person's views on abortion are pretty directly related to their views on the separation of church & state? I never thought of it quite like that before, but it does make some sense.

[worming and squirming] Yeeeah.... I don't want to discount the voter's right to vote on policy...as in does the government have the right to ban all abortions or limit them....What I am trying to point out is that any voter who votes on a candidate based solely on ONE view point, may prejudice his outlook totally...IOWs, at one point, let's say I saw myself as one who insisted that any candidate who voted for abortion, was not worthy of office......then what about the same candidates who is quite able to curb a war but was for any sort and all sorts of abortion? I may compromise, and allow that candidate into office, with the hopes of finding another/supporting another candidate later to reverse those abortion decisions....

but to make clear, my view on abortion...I tend to be pro-choice...as that is more important, and it gives a person more flexibilty in choices that are available in life. I am a strong advocate in EDUCATION against abortion...as being informed allowes a person more choices in life. and I trust others to be safe when it comes to themselves.

[Liz]

This is a legitimate question....Is the voter voting to bring the nation to God [iOWs, to "evangelize" the nation?] or is the voter to vote on issues affecting the nation [iOWs, keeping the separation from church and state]?

Personally, I like to keep the church and state thingy separate.......

Which then makes the abortion issue more a personal issue and one that the government does not need to interfere between doctor and patient.

Yes, I can see your thinking on this. However, help me out here. My question will be asked in very very broad terms, no specifics. How does a Christian (church) then vote (state) for a politician (state) that goes against what the Christian believes in? Then the tag-a-long question to that is--again being very broad and taken to the extreme. Are Christians held responsible for voting in someone who then turns around and puts a death decree on all Christians?

[Dr. Shane]

Is that different from voting for someone whose policies kill innocent life in other ways - such as a war, or such as the death penalty?

Another easy question.

War and the death penalty do not target innocent life.

[carolaa]

I know...how far do you take it? I don't think any candidate follows all of my religious views, so then what? Go with lesser of 2 evils? Or forget my religious views and go with the one who will do the most good for the country? Personally, I believe voting is a secular duty, not a religous one.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

Is that different from voting for someone whose policies kill innocent life in other ways - such as a war, or such as the death penalty?

Another easy question.

War and the death penalty do not target innocent life.

So the key word is "target." But what if the target is to protect the LIFE of the mother?

[Woody]

Quote:

gives a person more flexibilty in choices that are available in life

Like murder and death?

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

This is a legitimate question....Is the voter voting to bring the nation to God [iOWs, to "evangelize" the nation?] or is the voter to vote on issues affecting the nation [iOWs, keeping the separation from church and state]?

Personally, I like to keep the church and state thingy separate.......

Which then makes the abortion issue more a personal issue and one that the government does not need to interfere between doctor and patient.

Yes, I can see your thinking on this. However, help me out here. My question will be asked in very very broad terms, no specifics. How does a Christian (church) then vote (state) for a politician (state) that goes against what the Christian believes in? Then the tag-a-long question to that is--again being very broad and taken to the extreme. Are Christians held responsible for voting in someone who then turns around and puts a death decree on all Christians?

let me rephrase this somewhat-

My question will be asked in very very broad terms, no specifics. How does a Christian (religion) then vote (secular) for a politician (secular) that goes against what the Christian believes in?

The question now becomes the lessor of two evils. Depending upon your view of last day events, [mine include religionists who are nothing more than secularist with a religous garb], I tend to look for the least religious person out there, and ask him what he would believe in....Obama says that he is looking to reduce abortion...The only way to do that, is to educate, and make policys that are favorable to working women....I have never seen Bush and the religious Right do that..

[Liz]

I know...how far do you take it? I don't think any candidate follows all of my religious views, so then what? Go with lesser of 2 evils? Or forget my religious views and go with the one who will do the most good for the country? Personally, I believe voting is a secular duty, not a religous one.

Yeah, see, I don't know. I am not sure what the answer is, I am confused. But I do agree with you about voting being a secular duty and not a religious one.

[Liz]

let me rephrase this somewhat-

My question will be asked in very very broad terms, no specifics. How does a Christian (religion) then vote (secular) for a politician (secular) that goes against what the Christian believes in?

The question now becomes the lessor of two evils. Depending upon your view of last day events, [mine include religionists who are nothing more than secularist with a religous garb], I tend to look for the least religious person out there, and ask him what he would believe in....Obama says that he is looking to reduce abortion...The only way to do that, is to educate, and make policys that are favorable to working women....I have never seen Bush and the religious Right do that..

Alright. But you didn't answer my tag-along question.

How do ya'll do the multiple quotes? I can only do one at a time.

[Neil D]

Then the tag-a-long question to that is--again being very broad and taken to the extreme. Are Christians held responsible for voting in someone who then turns around and puts a death decree on all Christians?

Were the Israelites guilty of stoning Achan ?....even after God said to do so?

I would guess it would depend upon your premise and your values...personally, I don't think so...

Voting is a way for the masses to tell the leadership who/what they want. It is the leadership's responsibility to lead....That death decree is gonna happen whether you voted for or against the man...

[Woody]

But Neil ... Ellen White says that if we vote for the person who does that ... we are held responsible for their sins. How do you reconcile that?

Since I felt it was off topic ... I started a new thread including Ellen White's quote for those who are interested.

See ... "How can a Christian vote?"

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/188391/How_can_a_Christian_Vote#Post188391

[Liz]

Originally Posted By: Liz

Then the tag-a-long question to that is--again being very broad and taken to the extreme. Are Christians held responsible for voting in someone who then turns around and puts a death decree on all Christians?

Were the Israelites guilty of stoning Achan ?....even after God said to do so?

I would guess it would depend upon your premise and your values...personally, I don't think so...

Voting is a way for the masses to tell the leadership who/what they want. It is the leadership's responsibility to lead....That death decree is gonna happen whether you voted for or against the man...

I answered this in the other thread started by Redwood.