McCain speech today 10-21

[Woody]

Call it "Joe the Plumber" ...

Just about half of what McCain talked about today was the "Joe Policy". Joe the Plumber has turned around the McCain campaign according to Fox News. And there is movement in the polls that indicate Joe the Plumber is working.

And also helping is that the other Joe's comments that he would rather see McCain as president because the job of president can not have 'on the job' training.

[fccool]

What exactly is Joe Policy? Can you explain it to me? Can we discuss issues, instead of speaking in political bumber stickers? You know:

" Lower taxes "

" McCain - plummer's friend, and yours too"

" Obama, people vote for him because he is black "

Can we finally discuss real issues?

- Current administration nearing taking on more debt in two terms than all of the previous administrations combined.

- US spends more on military than the rest of the world combined, while severely lagging behind in education and other indicators

- US spends 15% of the GDP on health care while the cancer and heart disease rates are increasing. A health problem can potentially lead to person loosing everything.

- In many cases, two working parents are struggling to raise family.

- US has more incarcerations per capita than any country in the world. And 1 in 10 black man will be in prison, in spite of the blacks being a minority.

What is this, a soccer game???? Us verses them? So, McCain will take the office, or Obama will take the office... WHAT THEN?????

This was the same game played with Bush vs Gore. NOTHING CHANGED. Debt and spending kept rising... the taxes also kept rising (through debt taken on by the government). Abortion is still legal, in spite of the Republican majority in Supreme Court. Can you tell me what can realistically change when either of these people takes the office?

[Taylor]

Call it "Joe the Plumber" ...

Just about half of what McCain talked about today was the "Joe Policy". Joe the Plumber has turned around the McCain campaign according to Fox News. And there is movement in the polls that indicate Joe the Plumber is working.

And also helping is that the other Joe's comments that he would rather see McCain as president because the job of president can not have 'on the job' training.

So McCain doesn't need "on the job training"..that would probably be accurate about him and Biden becuase of their past experience, but what about not only Obama but Palin? If the shoe fits Obama it certainly fits Palin...of needing "on the job training".

[Woody]

I would disagree that Palin would need on the job training. She has good executive experience. Obama and Biden ... have none. Palin has served her state well. Governors have done well as Presidents.

[jasd]

>>So McCain doesn't need "on the job training"..that would probably be accurate about him and Biden becuase of their past experience,<<

It is true that Biden has experience; however, how does one measure the experience that gives rise to so much error?

>>...but what about not only Obama but Palin? If the shoe fits Obama it certainly fits Palin...of needing "on the job training".<<

The salience of the matter lies with the fact that Obama heads his ticket; whereas, Palin fills the number two slot of hers.

Being VP should allow, as you've stated, "on the job training".

Error compounds error and it remains that Obama is still a junior Senator - who is overly inclined to vote 'present' upon matters of gravitas.

Abyssus Abyssum invocta. Hell calls to Hell.

:-o

[Dr. Shane]

The salience of the matter lies with the fact that Obama heads his ticket; whereas, Palin fills the number two slot of hers.

Being VP should allow, as you've stated, "on the job training".

This is a very significant point. However it is also noteworthy that many governors that have run for President were said to not have the experience needed but after being elected have done quite well.

[John317]

Biden said before that Obama wasn't ready to be president. Now Biden said, "Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Remember how they tested John Kennedy? They tried to see if he would back down from a possible nuclear exchange. Kennedy didn't back down. Will Obama? Kennedy had the back bone to tell the Russians, "No. If you go beyond this point, it could be nuclear war." Would Obama have the resolve and strength to do the same? That may similar to the test he will face.

I doubt they'd be stupid enough to test McCain because they already know McCain is strong. He's been tested. They dont' know this about Obama because he hasn't ever been in a position where he had to prove his metal.

[jasd]

What exactly is Joe Policy? Can you explain it to me? Can we discuss issues, instead of speaking in political bumber stickers? You know:

>>" Lower taxes "<<

It is unfeasible that, in the congregate, we lower taxes. There is still the 35-50 trillion dollar debt that can only be sustained (temporarily) by an observable servicing of our most immediate and noticeable debt.

The above said, it is probably unwise to raise taxes or to allow the current 'Bush cuts' to 'sunset', thereby, effectually raising taxes. Or given a Democrat veto-proof House and Senate together with an Obama win, one perceives a Parliamentary form of Govt in the offing with Pelosi the 'law-giver'. Yikes!

"Nancy Pelosi has stated that she wants to tax your 401k with a one-time levy or even a levy on appreciation or contribution, never mind that you already pay tax when you withdraw the money to spend in retirement."

Might this be the first step in a necessary Govt confiscation of the 'cash' inherent in retirement programs?

>>" McCain - plummer's friend, and yours too"<<

Given what the Democrat campaign has subsequently done to Joe, the plumber – it is, on the face of it, McCain – who is the plumber’s friend.

>>" Obama, people vote for him because he is black "<<

Don’t know so much that the general populace will “vote for Obama” because he is black – but, what does one make of the fact that approx 95% of our black population plans to vote for him say?

>>Can we finally discuss real issues?<<

I’d say! so how about we flesh-out the issue of Ayers, Rezko, Frank Marshall, Alinsky, Wright, et al? We may even discover their intrinsic commonality... Presently, the apparent commonality is worrisome.

>>Current administration nearing taking on more debt in two terms than all of the previous administrations combined.<<

Exponential growth... That said, even I, find such spending abhorrent. However, that noted, there is blame enough to spread between both parties – and our present situation requires vast expenditures...

>>US spends more on military than the rest of the world combined, while severely lagging behind in education and other indicators.<<

Upon this point I agree – that we ought not to be bearing the costs of defending such as Japan and Europe unilaterally. Foolishness, and much too generous, upon our part.

That said, we have a GDP or GNP of approx 14 trillion dollar$ per annum. If we spend a trillion dollar$ a year – we’d be par for the proper allocation of defense dollar$ vis-à-vis our GDP or GNP.

>>US spends 15% of the GDP on health care while the cancer and heart disease rates are increasing. A health problem can potentially lead to person loosing everything.<<

It is supposed that, generally, both cancer and heart disease originates from the habits of its sufferer. That being so, one expects that rather than spending on unnecessary trifles, one ought to plan to pay for health-care programs commensurate with expectation of calamitous disease. That said,

health-care cost is run amok.

>>In many cases, two working parents are struggling to raise family.<<

Small wonder, being that a 30-year mortgage dedicates the first 11 years towards payment of interest. It is only later that any monie$ paid begins to accrue to principal. The reasons why two parents are needed to work today are not limited to the high cost of servicing the average home mortgage. (One working parent – the father/husband, sustained the relatively large and multigenerational family of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Additionally, that family consisted not only of the immediate family but of gram and gramps; the old-maid aunt; the unfortunate near, or in-law, family; etc)

>>US has more incarcerations per capita than any country in the world. And 1 in 10 black man will be in prison, in spite of the blacks being a minority.<<

Yes, there has been injustice; that said, I quote Jesse Jackson, “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

The 1992 Census provides the demographic statistic that there were 31.4 million Blacks in America. That works out to 1.3 in 10. The number 1 in 10 is not so extraordinary. It may be somewhat explanatory, given that one bemoans the fact that 1 in 10 Blacks “will be in prison”, is that “twice as many Blacks live in our central cities than do Whites (56% vs 26%) ...living in the suburbs”. That of itself is excessively contributory to criminal activity.

>>What is this, a soccer game???? Us verses them? So, McCain will take the office, or Obama will take the office...<<

In the long run, not much difference. In the short haul, mebbe, quite a bit of difference.

>>WHAT THEN?????<<

Armageddon?

>>This was the same game played with Bush vs Gore. NOTHING CHANGED. [...] Can you tell me what can realistically change when either of these people takes the office?<<

Events and exigencies will overtake our next Prez – we’re scrued :-o

We need a Sarah of Palin

[carolaa]

Can you tell me what can realistically change when either of these people takes the office?

The system is what it is, regardless of who is President. The President can only try to influence, but he has little real power. Here is an interesting excerpt from an interview with Eugene Jarecki, where he attempts to explain why we are so stuck:

"You know, the B-1 bomber has a piece of it made, a piece of the plane made, in every single US state. Now, why? I mean, that’s not an efficient way to make a product. So, it must be serving some end. And the end, it turns out, that it serves is that the B-1 bomber was designed by its makers according to a process called political engineering, fancy word for distributing the contracts and subcontracts to build a given weapons system to as many states, as many congressional districts as possible, not let’s make it as efficient as possible, but rather, let’s put it in as many districts as possible, so that if this thing ever comes up for review, everybody’s getting a piece of the action, everybody’s in on it. And as a result, when, you know, the questions arise—Do we need the B-1 bomber? Do we need to be spending this money?—there is a constituency built in in Congress that’s going to keep that thing going.

"And what does that tell us? That tells us that—first of all, the defense sector is not alone in that. Every industry has their version of politically engineering Congress. But what it does is it puts the congressperson in a position of being a professional pleader to that corporation, that corporate interest, on behalf of them to the federal government. And it suborns, it really undermines the purity of their decision making. It produces some of the very tragic and wrong-headed decisions that we’ve seen in recent years."

For the entire interview: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/20/eugene_jarecki_on_the_american_way

[Woody]

Quote:

We need a Sarah of Palin

Yes ... we certainly do. I think she would be GERRRRATE.

Signing off .... RED of WOOD

[Dr. Shane]

Sarah Palin is great. There is no doubt about that in my mind. However if we vote for the Republican ticket we get McCain, not Palin.

[Woody]

Sarah Palin is great. There is no doubt about that in my mind. However if we vote for the Republican ticket we get McCain, not Palin.

Things can be arranged ....

I've read that McCain wants to use Sarah more than most VPs have been used in the past. It would be a shame to waste such good talent.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:fccool

And 1 in 10 black man will be in prison, in spite of the blacks being a minority.

Quote:jasd

The 1992 Census provides the demographic statistic that there were 31.4 million Blacks in America. That works out to 1.3 in 10. The number 1 in 10 is not so extraordinary.

Re: mea culpa

Oh vái! another of my senior moments. I find it more and more difficult to drib and drab, or to effectively grunt, snort, and scratch at the same time.[/sigh]

I typed-up the above quote whilst developing agida watching Fox – so, lost my place re numbers and ratios. However,

the rest of the quote still bears... following:

Quote:

Quote:jasd

It may be somewhat explanatory, given that one bemoans the fact that 1 in 10 Blacks “will be in prison”, is that “twice as many Blacks live in our central cities than do Whites (56% vs 26%) ...living in the suburbs”. That of itself is excessively contributory to criminal activity.

[Bravus]

'Joe the Plumber' (besides being fake) is not a policy, as pointed out above. He's basically a pretext for making the same old Republican (false) claims that Democrats will tax and spend. As such, he will appeal to the same old Republican base... and those aren't the people whose minds need changing to change the election outcome.

[jasd]

>>...And as a result, when, you know, the questions arise—Do we need the B-1 bomber? Do we need to be spending this money?—there is a constituency built in in Congress that’s going to keep that thing going.<< [ed.jasd]

Some relatively good observations preceded the above quote; unfortunately, given the facts, the immediate above is much too pejorative. The B-52, which the B1 bomber was meant to replace – is almost as old as my very self! It is more than twice as old as many (most?) airmen servicing them. The B-52 is a penetrating bomber; whereas, the B1 is capable of ‘standoff’ missions. One squadron of B1s is able to neutralize the Soviet Navy with its ‘standoff’ capability. Etc.

Monie$, rather than ‘redistributed’ to the benefit of the few – a la Obama’s economic frou-frou ideas – is better allocated towards an entire replacement of our B-52 fleet to the benefit of the entire Nation – dink the cost.

Lastly, my worries are directed to the fact that much of what goes into our defense systems originate and are purchased from foreign sources - much of which has proven to have been of suspect quality.

[jasd]

>>'Joe the Plumber' (besides being fake)<<

Umm, you've not also experienced a 'senior moment', have you? and really meant

Obama the Fake?

[Bravus]

Well, I dunno - when 'Joe the Plumber' is not named 'Joe' and is not a plumber, he seems like a pretty weak foundation on which to build a whole campaign

[Woody]

Well, I dunno - when 'Joe the Plumber' is not named 'Joe' and is not a plumber, he seems like a pretty weak foundation on which to build a whole campaign

The above is entirely false and just left winged propaganda. Joe is Joe and Joe IS a plumber. He also dreams of owning a plumbing business. All are true. Joe has single handedly propelled this campaign. He is honorable. And it was Obama who came to HIM.

[Bravus]

The 'Joe' point, admittedly, is a bit of a cheap shot: his first name is Samuel, I believe, but lots of people go by their middle name.

But he is not a licenses plumber. And he had no realistic chance of buying the business, partly financially and partly because he wouldn't legally be able to run it without a plumbing license. And the business had income of $100,000, so it's fanciful to think it was going to pay $250,000 in the near future.

He is a Republican, and all his beliefs are Republican, and he tried to trap Obama with a premeditated and completely hypothetical question.

[Woody]

Quote:

But he is not a licenses plumber.

Only a Democrat would require that he be a licensed plumber to be called a plumber.

Smells of BIG Government.

Give me a break here.

[Woody]

Quote:

he tried to trap Obama

And he did. A fine job at that. And to think ... he us just a plumber ... and not licensed at that. Yet ... he trapped the next president of the United States.

[Dr. Shane]

Once Joe gets his journeyman's license he will be able to start his own business as long as it is a partnership with a master plumber. There are a lot of master plumbers out there that do not own their own business and do not want to but would be willing to partner up with someone like Joe.

[Woody]

I wish Joe the best. I like people who dream.

[jasd]

>>Well, I dunno - when 'Joe the Plumber' is not named 'Joe' and is not a plumber, he seems like a pretty weak foundation on which to build a whole campaign<<

Redux revisited..., like, is Obama aka Soetoro? an Indonesian citizen, as well an American citizen? AP photos seem to suggest so. But there,

whatever similitude exists - vanishes - because, oh yes, Obama is a politico. No 'misrepresentation' as to vocation there. And yes, were a campaign to be based entirely upon a hypothetical question which elicited a "spread the wealth" response - would be a weak foundation with which to engage the intellectual torpor of the electorate.

Bread and circus promises seem to appeal. That said,

oh, wow, Obama landed in Ohio and began a walkabout. Oops, Obama ran into buzzsaw Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Oops, again.

Oh, so his first name is not Joe. It is, rather, his middle name shortened, that is, Joe. Oh, what a deceptive man. Besides, though he is a plumber, he is not fully licensed. And oh, he has tax problems. And what's with the shaved head? surely, he must be one of those skin-heads. Anyway,

what was it that Obama said in response to a hypothetical question? Why did the Obama campaign react so viciously to a 'hypothetical question'? Wow! Poor Joe, better Obama had taken his walkabout elsewhere. So,

all's well that ends well...,

sheesh! who's on first?

Again, poor Joe. He found out the hard way that Obama and all things pertaining - are toxic!

Oy vay!

[Bravus]

None of you has yet responded to the key point in my post: Joe only helps with preaching to the Republican choir, and that ain't gonna turn around the McCain Straight to Oblivion Express.