Dr. Shane Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 What Do the Catholics Know? What the studies discovered is this: if you don't want to get divorced, don't move in until after the wedding. Why is that? Consider the following facts about cohabitation: Most couples who live together never end up getting married, but those who do tie the knot are almost twice as likely to divorce as couples who don't live together before marriage. Overall, the divorce rate of cohabiting couples is about eighty percent, and non-virgin brides are sixty percent more likely to end up divorced than women who enter marriage as virgins. Couples who cohabited prior to marriage have greater marital conflict and poorer communication, and they made more frequent visits to marriage counselors. Women who cohabited before marriage are more than three times as likely to cheat on their husbands within marriage. The US Justice Department found that women who cohabit are sixty-two times more likely to be assaulted by a live-in boyfriend than by a husband. They were also more than three times as likely to be depressed as married women, and the couples were less sexually satisfied than those who waited for marriage. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Commenting on the words you made bold: is this because these women know that other men can be just as satisfying as their husbands, or perhaps, even more so? Did this study take into consideration those women and men who had sexual relations with their spouses before marriage, but not with anyone else prior to that? I'd be interested to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Did you ever study the difference between correllation and cause? Don't get me wrong - I strongly believe that there are very good reasons for reserving strong sexual intimacy (in its many forms) for marriage. But you can NOT conclude from this study that premarital sex is the cause, and condemning premarital sex is not the answer. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I smell the sulphuric breath of propaganda and agenda here. My saying this has nothing to do with pushing any moral position on the matter of my own. I'm simply saying I don't trust the human element that went into this one. And I do NOT mean because it came from Catholics. I mean because of all the additional factors involved here which are -- not surprisingly -- conveniently omitted. Such as additional mental programming which could be part and parcel of the lives of these "virgin brides" and if positive, help them select decent mates they would not want to leave (and perhaps even later in life when both are more "settled" as individuals and know better what they want) or if negative, keep them mentally, emotionally, socially and religiously, in bondage to a stifling, suffocating, dissatisfying partnership because they believe it is what God requires of them. Which, as far as the potential "negatives" go, a person casting off the voluntary self-restraint of such traditions would naturally cast off all the negative programming as well and not be inclined to put up with something less than they feel they deserve in an intimate partnership. That for starters anyhow. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Yeah, Beware of Shane, he is really a religious right, image of the beast BUSH infiltrator..disguised as a Texan SDA. We can not post anything here regarding cause and effect since to do so would take 14 million pages of all supporting material to make a case for the cynic and SNOPES veteran. Besides Shane .. don't you know that this is a CULTURAL thng where there are no rules and no historical criteria applies... Modern society is totally different than any society before it.. We have to be careful of using the "M" word because that is offensive. We have to be careful of the "V" word because that is offensive. We have to be careful of the ABCDEFGHIGKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ WORDS because that is offensive. This is 2005.. all sin is permissable... It is totally UNChristlike to challenge any lifestyle form including... mass murder, serial rapists, pedophilia, beastiality, homosexuality, chocolate eating. The only thing that is permissable is to pick on right wing image of the beast, legalistic, pharisees and the 10 commandments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Commenting on the words you made bold: is this because these women know that other men can be just as satisfying as their husbands, or perhaps, even more so? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Actually the non-virgin bride would know that isn't true. The virgin bride is more likely to be fooled by that lie from the devil. Study after study show that those in long-term monogamous relationships report the highest sexual sastisfaction. So for most women, her husband cannot be so easily replaced by another man. What amazes me is that the more we study sex the more we find God is right. All the restrictions He places on our sex lives is for our own good. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Quote: What amazes me is that the more we study sex the more we find God is right. All the restrictions He places on our sex lives is for our own good. Why the very nerve!!! Using the word "restrictions"??? God restricts?? That sounds so unloving and freedom reducing!! Is God really like that?? Some ogre who oppresses people by RESTRICTING anything?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Quote: Actually the non-virgin bride would know that isn't true. The virgin bride is more likely to be fooled by that lie from the devil. Study after study show that those in long-term monogamous relationships report the highest sexual sastisfaction. So for most women, her husband cannot be so easily replaced by another man. Wrong. I'm sorry, Shane, but you're wrong. I was a virgin bride. I also had a long-term affair while I was married. While I did not "replace" my husband, I did find out that sexual satisfaction can be found elsewhere. Study after study...cannot and does not tell the complete truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 You can say "sorry" Christine but it sounds like I am not the one you should be saying it to. You are just one person. Studies focus on groups. Just because you are an exception does not mean the rule doesn't hold true in most cases. You may have had a very cold husband that was not affectionate and in such a case almost any other man would have been better. However in most cases the longer a couple are together, the more they learn what each others likes and dislikes are. When asked to rate one's sexual sastisfaction, the longer a couple has been together the higher they typically rate their sexual sastisfaction. This certainly holds true for me. When I first got married I was disappointed. I expected more from sex. However after about a year we figured out what all the fuss was about and as the years have rolled by my sexual sastisfaction continues to increase. I totally trust God's direction for me. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I've said enough. You're not listening. Forget it. Think whatever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Some of us didn't have the option of sexual innocence permitted to us. Some of us were made to do things at the age of 7 that should not be spoken in polite company. 'Nuff said. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 2, 2005 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2005 Shane: Re: "Most couples who live together . . . [before getting married] are almost twice as likely to divorce as couples who don't live together before marriage." My overall reaction to the above comment is that you are correct, althought I am not certain if your stated figure is exactly right. However, your continued statements (virgins, etc.) carry implications that I am not certain are supported. In regard to those statements, the question of corelation vs. cause if likely a very valid one that applies. e.g. Your reference to "virgins" would include people divorced, as well as those who had a spouse die. A higher divorce rate among such people would probably be more related to factors other than their prior sexual experience. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 Brother Matthews and others, if you click on the link I provided you will find the information comes from a Catholic website and is not my opinion. "Corelation and cause" would be an interesting study. A person's virginity is not likely to have any direct affect on a successful marriage. However the person's childhood environment most likey does. There we are likely to find a strong corelation between a virgin bride and an emotionally healthy childhood. (of course there would be exceptions) The virgin bride may well be more likely to have had a religious upbringing and come from a two-parent family. That in itself would boost her chances of a successful marriage. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Hang in there Shane... you will always have gainsayers coming out of the wood work..when you post stuff like this. So many are carrying around stinging baggage and shame that binds them to their unforgiving attitude. I have come across the stats that you have posted awhile before.. It is really something... so many want to trust and be trusted...to have stability and security in their marriage and relationships...women want that ring ..if they are in a live together relationship..so that they have a little more evidence that the guy is not going to drop them like a lead balloon...and yet when something comes out which gives a clue as to some way which give better chance at success at that...maybe not for them but the younger group.. WHAM!!, PUNCH!, POW!!..BIFF!!, ZONK!! attack it because it is way in the past for their road. I have been burned by others..ya know what??? That was their problem not mine... What the ghenna is JOB all about??? Or the story of JESUS? Sorry JimBob, Amelia was right to edit out this crudity elsewhere, and I'm going to do it here. Keep it clean please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Quote: Hang in there Shane... you will always have gainsayers coming out of the wood work..when you post stuff like this. I believe the term you are seeking is "naysayers". Quote: So many are carrying around stinging baggage and shame that binds them to their unforgiving attitude. And some are just sick and tired of gross oversimplifications that stuff complex issues into conveniently hermetically-sealed pigeonholes and call it a science -- and the way smarmy, smug, self-righteous attitudes come out of the woodwork with their little waggy finger fests revealing what's really in those whitewashed, pristinely manicured tombs. Quote: It is really something... so many want to trust and be trusted...to have stability and security in their marriage and relationships...women want that ring ..if they are in a live together relationship..so that they have a little more evidence that the guy is not going to drop them like a lead balloon... You really are living in the dark ages ... LOL ... you have no idea. Dragging you out into the light would not be kind, so I'll leave you under that rock where it's comfy cozy and you can pretend you know the score. I've gathered you like it better there anyway. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Quote: I believe the term you are seeking is "naysayers". That will do..I am referring to... Titus 1 "9": Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Quote: It is really something... so many want to trust and be trusted...to have stability and security in their marriage and relationships...women want that ring ..if they are in a live together relationship..so that they have a little more evidence that the guy is not going to drop them like a lead balloon... Quote: You really are living in the dark ages ... LOL ... you have no idea. Dragging you out into the light would not be kind, so I'll leave you under that rock where it's comfy cozy and you can pretend you know the score. I've gathered you like it better there anyway. Perspective Nico..perspective.. The words that you quoted are from my communications with people in 2004 ..with the experience of the theme of this post Maybe they are living in the dark or Dark ages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Isn't it obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 I don't think anyone is suggesting that premarital sex is acceptable for males and not for females. Nice try at taking the thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> Do you have any thoughts that would edify the church? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Quote: The words that you quoted are from my communications with people in 2004 ..with the experience of the theme of this post Maybe they are living in the dark or Dark ages... Fair enough -- having divested myself of television and long since tuned out the strata of talking-monkey society whose cross-section is found on the likes of the Jerry Springer show, I had basically forgotten their very existence altogether. And frankly, have been glad to do so. Yes indeed, "the slaves shall serve..." From a nation of slaves, darkened in understanding, swallowed in superstition, accustomed to being led by the rings through their noses as it were, lacking in self-directedness, such mentality is probably a more realistic assessment than I gave it credit for. Forgive me for the inevitable folly of human flesh: the unchecked assumption, in my absence of the experience of being them, that others are like myself. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Quote: I don't think anyone is suggesting that premarital sex is acceptable for males and not for females. Even so, Shane, I do note that the article has nothing to say about the sexual status of the males involved in the study. It focuses only upon the presence or absence of virginity in the bride, as if this alone accounted for the alleged divorce statistics cited. I don't read anything in CoAspen's post to indicate an attempt to derail the topic in the direction you suggest above. Rather I see simply the pointing out of this absence. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Check out all the posts that have to do with women - dress, abortion, jewelry, and now virginity. See who always is posting their opinions about women on those subjects. What about men and virginity. Why is it ok for them to not be???? K Quote Proverbs 15:15 He that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 4, 2005 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2005 In an earlier post, Beven asked the following: "Did you ever study the difference between correllation and cause?" That is a very important issue. To illustrate the foundational aspects of that issues, let me tell you a story that I learned when I took a basic course in statistics: ****************************** There was once a principal of an 8-grade elementary school who developed a thesis in regard to facility in reading skills. Briefly, his thesis was: Facility in reading is determined by the length of a childs big toe. So, in the interests of science, he set about to test his thesis. First he determined the reading levels of each student in his 8-grade school. Secondly, he measured the length of the big toe of each child. Thirdly, he compared the results, and statistically analized them. Wonder of wonders, he found a direct relationship (not inverse). The larger the length of the big toe, the greater the reading skills of the student. Next he wrote an article that he submitted for publication. In it he claimed that his research had clearly demonstrated that one's reading skills were determined by the length of the big toe. NOTE: I can assure you that if you repeat his experiment you will obtain the same findings. I.e. his experiement is replicatable. The professional journal to which he submitted his article simply replied: "Correllation is not cause." ********************************************************* Folks think about it for a minute. The reason the principal obtained his findings should be quite clear. Have fun with this one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dogrunning.gif" alt="" /> Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Your post wasn't clear to me whether he was measuring an entire school composed of eight GRADES or whether he was measuring the entire eighTH grade IN a school. I finally concluded it had to be the former. With that in mind, my guess is that statistically, most 8th graders will have larger toes than first graders -- and will also have higher reading skills because of their ages and length of time spent getting educated. Am I close? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted January 4, 2005 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2005 The answer seems obvious. The older children had longer toes because they were older chronologically; thus they would normally have attended school longer before the test and therefore would be better readers. ============ But back to the topic. Correlation does not equal cause!! There are numerous reasons why virgin brides [and grooms] may stay married longer than those who were non-virgins at marriage. I'd venture to say that the various reasons why people are attracted to each other and get married in the first place -- and the number of those reasons may be in the millions -- are so vast and varied that this whole idea is an exercise in futility. Similar intelligence, shared religious faith, similar social and economic status... -- those are the real predictors of success in marriage. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 4, 2005 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2005 Nico, you got it. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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