Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted February 12, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2009 This 'discussion' reminds m of the story about the 3 blind guys describing an elephant..... Well spoken. [Which doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading it.] Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2009 John, where are you getting your ideas that say that education is pretty much a socialistic concept????? The day to day running of a school no way reflects a socialist's enviorment. Didn't you read my comment that I didn't believe everything those posters wrote? I posted those essays in order to show what some people thought about the issues-- IOW, to provoke or stimulate discussion. Not that you aren't stimulated enough already without it! I'll be back later to add some of my own comments about those posts. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think we ought to do as the Hebrews used to. Several families get together and hire a teacher. That makes a better classroom environment by far, and the younger students get to learn maturity from the older ones. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 And America's much-vaunted 'freedom' is only available to those who can afford it. I'm pretty sure that's not what the Founders had in mind... I grew up in an alcoholic home on food stamps and the welfare dime. My father abandoned the family when I was five and my mother had a chain of alcoholic boyfriends and husbands after him. What little money we had was spent in bars, not on the necessities of children. Yet in this land of opportunity I was able to get a college education and it had nothing to do with my family being able to afford it. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Minimum wage is a socialist concept. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hmmm, and well you should! My reply was about the the posted articles by you....my opinion of them and I'm stickin' to it!! teehe Hmmmmmmmmmm......CoAspen...me thinks you've turned into a "sticky poster". Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 13, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2009 Quote: I grew up in an alcoholic home on food stamps and the welfare dime. My father abandoned the family when I was five and my mother had a chain of alcoholic boyfriends and husbands after him. What little money we had was spent in bars, not on the necessities of children. Yet in this land of opportunity I was able to get a college education and it had nothing to do with my family being able to afford it. But you've already said that social programs made that possible - the very social programs under attack here. That's exactly my point. Other kids in the same situation still need that hand up, and the hard-line capitalist position is that they shouldn't get it, or at least should have to rely on private philanthropy. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I grew up in an alcoholic home on food stamps and the welfare dime. My father abandoned the family when I was five and my mother had a chain of alcoholic boyfriends and husbands after him. What little money we had was spent in bars, not on the necessities of children. Yet in this land of opportunity I was able to get a college education and it had nothing to do with my family being able to afford it. Didn't you have to go thru the military service to get your college education thru the GI bill? If so, you had to pay your way [go thru the military] to get that money...curtesy of the Republicans who chopped the scholarships that were available about 15 years before your service.... Those scholarships were such that you didn't have to pay them back with a year of community service...nor did you have to go thru the military ...nor were they loans to pay back...[albeit, loans were available, as I had some.]... Now I understand your loyalty to the republicans....You think they paid for your college education....actually, they chopped your scholarships and made you go to the military....which was probably a good thing for you, I am sure..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Minimum wage is a socialist concept. Exactly Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shane Minimum wage is a socialist concept. Exactly Why? Pray tell, please.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 But you've already said that social programs made that possible - the very social programs under attack here. Absolutely! Socialist programs did make my education possible. But... that means that American "freedom" isn't just available to those that can afford it. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Didn't you have to go thru the military service to get your college education thru the GI bill? I got the Montgomery GI Bill because I was in the National Guard. That paid me something like $140/month which helped with living expenses. I got student loans to pay for my college tuition. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Originally Posted By: olger Exactly Why? Pray tell' date=' please.... [/quote'] I favor minimum wage but for those that don't understand why it is socialist let me explain the rather simple concept. Minimum wage establishes an artificial value for unskilled labor. A free market would not have a minimum wage established by the government. The minimum wage would be the amount of money it takes a company to entice workers to come to work. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 15, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 15, 2009 Minimum wage is a socialist concept. And slavery was a super-duper capitalistic notion... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 15, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 15, 2009 ...Minimum wage establishes an artificial value for unskilled labor. A free market would not have a minimum wage established by the government. The minimum wage would be the amount of money it takes a company to entice workers to come to work. And the desparate, illiterate masses, men, women and children, of the world would work in sweat shops 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for piece work... Oh wait a minute, that is captialism 3rd world style... and exactly how it was before we enacted wage and hour, and child labor laws... If that is what you prefer... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Went to Cananda, who have minumum wages higher than the american mimimum wage....Prices of restuartent food wasn't too bad...granted, it was more expensive, but it wasn't too expensive...for 2 people.... And in Canada, my understanding is that not only do the Canadians have benefits, they can live on that single wage...thus, devoting more time to thier children or any other pursuits they desire... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 15, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yeah, I'd also be scared if there was no minimum wage! I'd never heard of people having to work 3 jobs just to survive until I knew an American who had to do that. Also the other thing that shocked me in the 70s when I travelled down to CA is that adults were working at jobs that kids traditionally do here, like bussing tables and customer service at fast food restaurants. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 15, 2009 Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 Also the other thing that shocked me in the 70s when I travelled down to CA is that adults were working at jobs that kids traditionally do here, like bussing tables and customer service at fast food restaurants. That's happening again. A lot. Here. On another *work* note, in the news there was one job opening for a water meter reader last Friday. 800 people showed up to take the test. Only one person could get the job. What's a person to do when they have no income and need some place, some how, to live? Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 15, 2009 Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yeah with so many people out of work, lots of people will be applying for the same job. And more than likely they'll be hiring the person who will take the least. Unfortunately its a catch 22, everyone wants to get paid as much as possible. So as the wages go up, companies start laying off. But you have to keep getting paid more because the cost of living continues to go up. And as the cost of living goes up people need to get pay increases. A catch 22. The government says we should take pay cuts and/or pay freezes, but they allow the cost of living to continue to go up. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Quote: Yeah, I'd also be scared if there was no minimum wage! As I said, I support minimum wage. That doesn't change the fact that it is a socialist concept. Quote: I'd never heard of people having to work 3 jobs just to survive until I knew an American who had to do that. A person in normal circumstances should not have to have three jobs in the US. Some people that may have three jobs are working three part-time jobs. Others are in debt up to their eye balls and trying to pay some of it off. Two people working full time jobs at minimum wage that have two kids will be living just above the poverty line. Few companies that pay minimum wage do not offer advancement after some years. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I just wonder about all the Canadians who come down to the States for medical procedures because they can't get the work done in a timely manner in Canada.. In 2007 there were only 222 MRI machines and 419 CT scanners in the whole country (that's 12 CT scanners and 6 MRI machines per million population). That's pathetic for the patients who desparately need those exams. Canadian Medical Info By the same token, many Americans go to Canada or Mexico for their healthcare because they can afford it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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