Neil D Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 So, what you think about this? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hmmm, O.k. that was weird I made a huge post and then it disappeared. I will try again. I don't think that wild animals, or animals that are ment to be wild, should ever be "tamed" and should never be treated as though they were as harmless as newborn kittens. More often than not something goes terribly wrong and the solution is always to kill the animal because they couldn't be controlled after all, and thanks to humans they are too messed up to ever be able to survive back in the wild. On another note, I heard that whoever published this cartoon had to apologize for it. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I wonder if Liz is talking about the chimp story instead of the NY Post story. I guess a lot of people took this as racist. I don't know if it was meant that way or not, and it's not how I took it. To me, it looked like they were saying the stimulus packages was written by a monkey. But, wow, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think this is terrible and the NY Post should be condemned for publishing it. This is as bad as the late-night talk show host that put a target on Bush's face. Those types of jokes are not funny and shouldn't be tolerated. The racism in the cartoon is offensive. The fact that cops are shooting the "President" is offensive. And the fact that a comic depicting a "President" getting killed is somehow humorous is offensive. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think this is terrible and the NY Post should be condemned for publishing it. This is as bad as the late-night talk show host that put a target on Bush's face. Those types of jokes are not funny and shouldn't be tolerated. The racism in the cartoon is offensive. The fact that cops are shooting the "President" is offensive. And the fact that a comic depicting a "President" getting killed is somehow humorous is offensive. Naw, we all know that Barry Hussein did not write the Bill. Presidents do not author bills as a rule. The cartoon was clearing depicting that no one but a monkey could have written such a stupid package. I say no apology is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The general public doesn't think that deep. I know that Obama didn't write the bill. But Mr. Joe Six-Pack doesn't realize that. Black people have long been referred to as "porch monkeys" by racists. For anyone to claim that the monkey wasn't intended to depict Obama has as much credibility has Obama when he claimed he didn't call Sarah Palin a pig with lipstick. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If YOU know that Obama didn't write the bill, then why are you offended? I suppose you are speaking for Joe Six-Pack. Is that an official assignment? I'm speaking only for myself. What happened to free speech? It's acceptable when someone hangs a likeness of Sarah. It's not acceptable when when a cartoonist calls the bailout bill's author a monkey. Even if I called the president a monkey, which I did not, that is not a crime, is it? Bush was called a 'Cowboy'. Is that a crime? If I am (or the president is) called a pig or a horse or a dog or a snake or a donkey, is that a crime? Where shall we draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shane, Joe Six-Pack just called to express his outrage. He's offended that you feel he needs a spokesman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shane, Joe Six-Pack just called to express his outrage. He's offended that you feel he needs a spokesman. Let's keep this centered on the cartoon, not on "Joe Sixpack"...'K? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shane, Joe Six-Pack just called to express his outrage. He's offended that you feel he needs a spokesman. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The point isn't that Joe Six-Pack needs a spokesperson. That type of logic misses the point. The point is that the artist that drew the comic knew that Joe Six-Pack (the average high school graduate) sees the President as the author of the stimulus bill. The artist played off the racist description of black people (porch monkeys) in his comic. If the artist was simply trying to make a point that the stimulus bill was not written well, he should have had the good sense to avoid racial overtones. He could have had a clown getting shot. And why have the police shooting anyone that is innocent? What is up with that? And why does the author of the stimulus package deserve death anyway? The comic is disturbing on many levels. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shane, First, the cartoon was about the 200 lb monkey shot in CT., not a clown. Why would you weave a clown into a cartoon on CURRENT affairs? Second, the monkey was not innocent. He all but killed that poor lady, and would have if they didn't mortally wound him. The Pork Bill will all but kill us, btw. A cartoonist, like a comedian or satirist, looks for (usually) biting humor in current events. Their job is to pull something funny out of even sad events. They don't always get a laugh (Doonesbury is a perfect example), but that's what they do. They will sometimes cross the line and this guy did with you and a few others, but not everybody. I know the difference between a death threat and a satirical cartoon. I also know that some VERY sensitive people will look for offensive material in everything. They need to get a life and laugh more. I hope the guy keeps his job. He's protected by the same rights that you and I enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuff sed Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 and it wasn't a monkey...it was an ape better known as Chimpanzee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Correct. Larry the Cucumber taught me if it has a tail its a monkey if it doesn't it's an ape. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shane, First, the cartoon was about the 200 lb monkey shot in CT... Was it??? Really??? I didn't know the stimulus package was written in Connecticut. That kind of sounds like Obama explaining to David Letterman that he didn't call Sarah Palin a pig. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Wow! Kinda nice sitting this one out and watch 2 users duke it out and make some assumptions that they think the other should have adopted. Well, folks, stay with us as we continue this interesting and lively discussion with these two strong willed vocal individuals when, as they point fingers at each other and say- YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!!!!! [organ music cresendoing] Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Second, the monkey was not innocent. He all but killed that poor lady, and would have if they didn't mortally wound him. Yes, the "ape" was innocent, it was the woman who thought she could "tame" a wild animal that is guilty. Wild animals just do what they do. And another poster was correct, I have no idea what this cartoon was about. It just came out at the same time that an ape was killed by police; so that was the angle I decided to comment on. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 YES I AGREE WE NEED TO KEEP TO THE TOPIC I agree, too. I was pointing out some facts relevant to the cartoon, that's all. Tell the lady with most of her face ripped off that the ape was innocent. Innocent apes typically don't get shot by police in the middle of attacking humans. I know the ape (monkey... whatever) should have been raised and cared for in a way less perverted way, but the ape was still the actor and the victim is still totally messed up. Back to the topic. The REAL issue with this and any cartoon is free speech, the right to express one's opinion even if others don't agree, even if others are offended. If anyone here on the forum hasn't offended someone then they can have the last word. We've all done it and one or two or a thousand offended people still doesn't make us wrong. It means our opinions differ. I'm cool with that. There have been offending cartoons by others that I could get bent out of shape over, but it's not important to try to get them fired over them. They express their opinions... I disagree with them. That's that. I have more important things to do in life than massage my thin skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The cartoon was NOT about the chimp - who was stabbed, not shot, and had nothing to do with the stimulus bill. Good grief. But I agree with Shane about the judgment of the cartoon, and this is yet *another* reason why it was a dumb idea, because people have confused it with another story. Consequently, people don't get it and are making up their own meanings. And they are getting all up in arms about offenses and meanings that they have created in their own minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Was this cartoon about the ape that was shot? Then, why the comment on the stimulus package? And if this cartoon is about the stimulus package, what did the ape signify? A person? A race? And now, another question.....Why are the police involved in the shooting? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 From the NY Daily News... "Travis, the crazed ape shot dead after chewing off a Connecticut woman's face, suffered the same fate as his mother, the Daily News has learned." Seems like a shooting to me, Carolaa. "Why are the police involved in the shooting?" Because they were the ones that shot the ape, Neil. Know what? I'm done. The whole discussion was to be about free speech rights (I thought) and I got caught up in the whole 'who shot or stabbed who', 'was it a monkey or an ape', 'does this mean Obama is a porch monkey (give me a break!)' thing. I'm guessing most of you probably don't understand Bloom County either. Ryan Seacrest... Out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2009 If the intention of the cartoon was not racist, publishing it was at the very least astonishingly short-sighted. Editors *should* be aware of these issues and sensibilities - they're not doing their jobs if they're not. And their apology was weaselly enough that it sure *sounded* as though they knew exactly what they were doing when they did it... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shucks Bravus... Already you sucked me back into this. (rats!) Is it ok for a cartoon to depict 'W' with oversize ears? Is that not offensive to some sensibilities? Are attacks on 'W's intelligence by Doonesbury different than depicting 'O' as a monkey? Doonesbury did tons of satirical cartoons on 'W' over the past two terms. Did any of you make a case against them or demand an apology from Gary? The word hypocrite comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2009 Several points here: 1. There is a real and tangible difference between depicting a white man as an ape and a black man as an ape due to the history of the country. Without that context it would be the same thing, but that context is there and real. 2. Did Doonesbury, or any other cartoonist, depict Bush dead with two bullets in his chest? I don't think so. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Death of a President British director Gabriel Range premiered the fictional documentary Death of a President in 2006. The film uses archive footage, actors, and computer effects to portray an assassination of President Bush. If... In his political comic strip If..., English cartoonist Steve Bell depicts President Bush as a chimpanzee. Link to Palin hanging: http://uppitywoman08.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/palin.jpg Link to McCain in flames: http://uppitywoman08.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/johnmccainmannequin.jpg Quote from Jeremiah Wright: – September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.” I may have missed it, but did you express outrage over any of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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