Amelia Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 AIG paying millions in bonuses despite bailout Geithner calls payments unacceptable; firm has received $170 billion in aid By David Cho Washington Post Despite receiving $170 billion in federal aid and recording a staggering loss for the last quarter, insurance giant American International Group is doling out tens of million of dollars in bonuses this week to senior employees. While AIG agreed to pay the bonuses months before the government's rescue of the company began, the matter still is a source of anger for government officials. In a phone call on Wednesday, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner told AIG Chairman and chief executive Edward M. Liddy that the payments were unacceptable and needed to be renegotiated, according to an administration source. The company has since agreed to change the terms of some of these payments. But in a letter to Geithner, Liddy wrote that the bonuses could not be canceled altogether because the firm would risk a lawsuit for breaching employment contracts. Liddy also expressed concerns about whether changing the bonuses would lead to an exodus of talented employees who are needed to turn the company around. "We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses — which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers — if employees believe that their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. treasury," Liddy wrote. AIG has agreed to restructure the $9.6 million in bonuses it would have paid to the firm's top 50 officers. AIG's top seven executives, including Liddy, have already agreed to forgo this payment altogether. The next 43 highest ranking officers would still receive half of their bonuses now. A quarter would be dispersed on July 15 and the rest on Sept. 15, but these last two payments would be contingent on whether the company makes progress on its restructuring plan. Other bonus payments to thousands of employees, which total in the hundreds of millions of dollars, are still on track to be paid out. Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Are these the same officers who oversaw AIGs near collapse? And they are calling them the best and brightest? Maybe they need to bring in some less talented people to turn things around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Share Posted March 15, 2009 I'm in need of a job, so maybe I can do it. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 15, 2009 Members Share Posted March 15, 2009 Are these the same officers who oversaw AIGs near collapse? And they are calling them the best and brightest? Maybe they need to bring in some less talented people to turn things around. exactly what I was thinking! And Liddy is apparently afraid to stand up to them regarding *bonuses*...... **** pk, you'd probably do a better job.. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Quote: Liddy also expressed concerns about whether changing the bonuses would lead to an exodus of talented employees who are needed to turn the company around. No kidding! Those fostering the class-envy are going to sink these companies in the end. It doesn't matter if these same people got the company in the mess. The company has a Board of Directors that has the power to fire the bad CEOs. If these people are still employed they must be needed and the politics of class envy are only going to run these companies into the ground. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Here is what happened. Obama gives them 170 Billion Dollars. What did AIG do with it ??? They give their employees who ran them in the ground 165 Billion Dollars worth of bonuses. If I was running things ... I would have fired them for running the business in the ground. That is reason for termination. But to give them bonuses out of our tax dollars ... well that is socialism. That is Obama's plan ... but I reject it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Based upon this last post of yours, Redwood, you absolutely don't know what you are talking about... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 AIG has agreed to look at 'limiting' FUTURE bonuses. WOW. Big deal. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 AAaaaaah...you FINALLY read it....congratulations...I knew you could do it... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 And let me guess ... You BELIEVE them? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 let me rephrase your question- Based upon the 'rational' posts that you have been voraciously posting, would I beleive you or them? I refuse to answer that question for fear I might hurt a friend.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I believe F _ _ . Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I believe F _ _ . Well, that's your choice, but that makes your posts unreliable as your source is unreliable... Personally, I think a good source is better than a bad source...And since you use excusively Fox, ...well..that makes you exclusively unreliable... You wanna be known for being unrelable? That doesn't seem to fit your persona here on ClubAdventist..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Whatever you say Neil. I am just not going to fight you. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Share Posted March 15, 2009 I guess they gave them bonuses because they have done such a good job ruining the company. I've heard that the reason for bonuses is if people have made the company money, I guess not, this fly's in the face for all hard working people, who really do all the work. And what do they get for there effort, laid off because the doesn't have enough money for bonuses for those ruining the company. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Not every division is losing money. Those working in divisions that are making money deserve their bonuses. Furthermore, those bonuses will be spent and stimulate the economy. Why is it wrong for Congressmen and Senators to decide how to spend tax payers' money but it is wrong for hard-working people to earn a bonus and then turn around and spend that money? Either way it is tax-payers' money getting spent in the economy and producing a stimulus. All this whining is just class envey. Read Exodus 20:17 "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." (That includes his bonus) Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: Why is it wrong for Congressmen and Senators to decide how to spend tax payers' money but it is wrong for hard-working people to earn a bonus and then turn around and spend that money? Either way it is tax-payers' money getting spent in the economy and producing a stimulus. All this whining is just class envey. Let's see...what do you percieve as "work" in the financial sector?? I do not see them using muscles, except thier jaw bone. I dont see them placing thier life's in harms way, as a housekeeper who cleans beds filled with human excrument, needles and carefully avoiding community diseases, blood borne disease. I don't see them coming into classes at 7am to prepare for the day, give lectures to students, grade papers of 25+ students on over 6 subjects per day, in addition to various meetings with other teachers and parent/teacher conferences. Wages are to be the compensation of your time doing a job that no one is able to do, depending upon supply and demand. Bonuses are given out, IMO, when the job is completed above and beyond the agree upon duties that result in increase income to the company. What I hear you saying is that there is an inequality in compensation in the financial sector. This peek into the financial sector shows that people are being overpaid for over work and are not fairly compensated. Prices are rising from the company to the customer...and the customer doesn't know it...which mean that there is some sort of price agreement between companies... Is that true, Shane? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Class envy pits the blue collar worker against the white collar worker. That is not God's plan. In fact, the Tenth Commandment forbids this type of envy. To say that the CEOs in a financial institution are not doing their job simply demonstrates the one making such a statement doesn't grasp the issues being discussed. We are in a financial crisis. The crisis was not caused by the CEOs of financial institutions. A handful of them made some bad decisions but they represent only a very small faction of those working in the industry. The crisis was caused mostly by the Federal Reserve and government policy requiring loans be made to low-income home buyers. These CEOs are not devils or demons. They are not terrorists wishing to kill our children and chop off our heads. These are real people. They are average Americans. These are people that went to college. They play life by the rules. They belong to churches and community organizations. They have children and mothers. They eat turkey at Thanksgiving and give gifts at Christmas. They are like all of us. They didn't make Greenspan run interest rates into the ground. They didn't create Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack. They have gotten up in the morning and gone to work like other respectable Americans. Cutting these CEOs bonuses has the same impact on the economy as laying off more workers. It will result in people spending less money. That is the problem. It is only those with envious spirits and vengeful hearts that wish to see their fellow citizens suffer. That is something to be repented of. Are we Commandment-keeping Christians or just the Fourth Commandment? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I agree that we are in a finacial crisis. But I do not agree that the low rate loans were caused by the Feds, though I agree that they too bear some responsibilty. Every CEO knew what was going on, and the requirments needed to enourage lower income people to own a home, and they knew the impact of those decisions...but, to make money for thier banks, they made the loans anyways. They absolved themselves of responsiblitiy. Some tried to get the goverment to increase oversight, but the majority of bankers said 'Why? WE can determine which loans are gonna be bad. The individual banks can regulate it." And the goveremnt bought it. Sorry, but the greed of many should bear the brunt of THEIR "regulation". Now, there are some banks that didn't do that, and currently they are in good shape... CEOs are NOT average american citizens. They make more money than the average person does. And because they saw an oppertunity to make money and KNEW of the larger consequences, they deserve to forgo thier bonuses for a year or two...or maybe 3...And if they leave the bank for better oppertunitys, more money to the institution.... This is not a case of class envy. This is justice. Reaping the results of thier own greed. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Interest is the price of money. When the Federal Reserve continued to lower interest rates they made money cheap. Cheap money fueled the housing bubble. The Federal Reserve bares more responsibility for this crisis than anyone else. Bankers only add on a mark-up. That mark-up varies depending upon the buyer's credit rating. So if a bank borrows money from the Federal Reserve at 3% interest and marks it up 1% they will loan the money out at 4%. The banker is not the problem. Now let's introduce the sub-prime lending mess. Fannie-Mae and Freddie Mac tell banks to go ahead and make high-risk loans to low-income people and they (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) will buy the loans from the banks. So bankers go out and make high risk loans. These bankers were doing exactly what the politicians in Washington wanted. They wanted low-income people to own homes and created Fannie-Mae and Freddie Mac to buy these loans from the banks making them. So we had cheap money coming out of the Federal Reserve that everyone (rich, middle-class & poor) were using to buy, buy, buy houses. The housing bubble popped and now there are a bunch of loans owned by a bunch of banks that are upside down or worthless. Quote: Every CEO knew what was going on Since I can't read minds and I am not Jesus Christ I really can't say whether that is true or not. I doubt it is but that is just my hunch. When I get to heaven maybe I'll ask the Savior about it. Quote: CEOs are NOT average american citizens. They make more money but that doesn't mean they aren't average. They are average in the sense that they like baseball and apple pie. They love their spouses and children. They go to church and invite friends to their homes. Most of them live beyond their means like average Americans do. Most of them cannot afford a 50% pay-cut any more than the average American can. It is wrong for us to demonize these people. They play by the rules. They are honest and put in long hours. The business world is tough and without these CEOs the blue collar workers wouldn't have the jobs they do. Quote: This is not a case of class envy. This is justice. Reaping the results of thier own greed. "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5) Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I guess if you say so, Shane...but i am not convinced. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 You want to get even with AIG? If you are insured with them, get out!!! Let that blood-sucking corp go the way of the dinosaur! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Today .... Obama says that these bonuses are an 'outrage'. And that he is going to pursue stopping these bonuses. He says that AIG failed because of 'greed'. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 16, 2009 Members Share Posted March 16, 2009 Excellent post Neil. What kills me, is first we say that we should give out bonuses to those that help make a company money, but now we say that we should be happy or not complain because there giving out bonuses to the people that run companies into the ground that they need a bailout. And they have the nerve to tell people, and not even to there face, that they are whining and should read the 10th commandment. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 No one is saying that the managers that caused the problem should be getting bonuses. The overwhelming number of managers in AIG are not even involved with the division that has lost the company so much money. Clearly those that caused the problem should not be getting bonuses. In fact, they should be fired. But they, (the managers at fault) are a very small number of the managers at AIG. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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