carolaa Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Heaps of good info here: http://www.google.com/search?client=safa...-8&oe=UTF-8 From the first link on that page: "There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration." Wow, lots of information there. Even if it were a slight negative effect on the economy, I would say it would not be worth the trauma to all those families and the upheaval to the country to kick them all out. On the other hand, there are effects that don't really have to do directly with the economy. For instance, many illegals don't carry auto insurance, so if you are in an accident with an illegal, you or your insurance are pretty much stuck. (Of course, many citizens don't carry insurance either....) Then there is the issue of medical care because they don't have medical insurance, either, so someone has to foot the bill. And we are paying to educate all those illegal children. One can understand why the citizens resent this. Personally, though, I'm more concerned with paying trillions of dollars for warfare and occupation than I am about a possible few million dollars to help fellow human beings, illegal or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 OK. Did you or did you not claim that it costs 'us' a lot to house, feed and educate illegals? I'm pretty sure that was you. Now I have shown that you are actually *wealthier* due to the presence of illegals in the country. You can play logic and semantics games all you like, but on the substantive issues you got comprehensively schooled. Might as well admit it. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just look at what "I" said. Not all the fluff that you have created. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 I did. Did you or did you not say it costs a lot to house feed and educate illegals? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It is FAR less costly than supporting an illegal. Do you realize how much we pay to support and keep them illegals here? We have to house, feed and educate them ... I think it was Redwood....yup, here it is...Redwood said it....come on, Red...Fess up...take responsiblity and tell us what you mean by this.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yep. And look at the context and who I was responding to so that you can know what I was saying. Of course ... you could just ask what I was referring to. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 OK. Whatever. It's like a hotel manager saying 'we should kick all those guests out - do you know how much it costs to feed them and clean up after them and heat this place?' Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It is really simple. Not much to "prove". An illegal steals someone's Social Security number and goes to work at some low-paying job. The company where he or she is working withholds taxes from their pay check. At the end of the year the person cannot go file taxes and get their withholdings returned to them because the Social Security number they have been using doesn't belong to them. So what happens to all that money that was withheld from their pay checks? It stays in the government treasury. Illegals take the money they earn and rent apartments and houses. The owners of those dwellings use that money to pay property taxes. Illegals buy things at stores and are charged sales tax. When illegals buy gasoline they have to pay road tax. When illegals pay their telephone bill they also pay federal taxes. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 Should we kick out all of the illegals from our country? Have you an idea what would happen to our economy without their labor? Who kills the chickens, handle the dirty, stinky entrails, so that what you see is a neatly packaged chicken? Ditto the cows neatly packaged for your steak? Most of the labor that built my house were Spanish-speaking. I think it would probably be safe to say many if not most of them were illegals. Without their labor, I probably would not have been able to afford the house. Without their labor, many of us would not be eating as well as we are. Perhaps that would be a good thing because obesity has reached epidemic proportions. California's agriculture industry would be sunk without illegal labor. As I have mentioned in another thread before - bring back the bracero program or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2009 1. Many illegal immigrants are going back on their own because the economy is so slow. Last year the amount of money being sent to Mexico from the US via wire transfer decreased for the first time since it has been tracked. That is because there are less illegals here now. 2. The illegals that are here pay taxes. They pay more than their American citizen counterparts. An American citizen working a low-paying job is going to file taxes at the end of the year and get all the taxes that were withheld from their check back. Since the illegal is illegal, they will not file taxes so the government will keep all the taxes withheld from their checks. Furthermore these illegals pay taxes every time the buy gas, use the phone, and make a purchase. No, they can't all be paying income taxes. I suspect many employers will not officially declare them as employees because it is illegal to hire illegals in many states. And if the employer knows the employee is an illegal, I doubt he will pay him as much as the citizen. If the illegal is then paid sub rosa, there is no reason for him to pay tax. Many of them also work temporary jobs, hired by the hour or by the day. No way the hirer will go through all the paper work to withhold taxes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It is illegal to hire illegals anywhere in the country. Like Shane said, they steal SS#s so they can fill out their I-9 and W-4 forms, and the employers don't know they are illegal and process their payroll like any other employee. On the other hand, some employers hire illegals on a temporary, "contract" basis, and so the workers don't make enough to withhold income tax. Although SS tax should still be withheld, but often they are just paid in cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 16, 2009 Members Share Posted March 16, 2009 Redwood when shane said the illegals were paying taxes, he did say that any time they buy gas, pay for there phone bill, etc. I can see that, but its a small portion. What bothers me more than the illegals paying or not paying taxes, is those that are in the higher tax brackets that don't pay there taxes. Now that's sad. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 No, they can't all be paying income taxes. I suspect many employers will not officially declare them as employees because it is illegal to hire illegals in many states... Illegals buy fake paperwork. That paperwork provides them with fake IDs and stolen Social Security numbers. The employers do not know they are illegal. They do withhold federal and state taxes as well as Social Security taxes - and most of these illegals will never collect Social Security. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Most of the labor that built my house were Spanish-speaking. I think it would probably be safe to say many if not most of them were illegals. No, that is not safe to say. That is like me looking at a black man and saying it is safe to say he probably has a child born out of wedlock. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Most of the labor that built my house were Spanish-speaking. I think it would probably be safe to say many if not most of them were illegals. No, that is not safe to say. That is like me looking at a black man and saying it is safe to say he probably has a child born out of wedlock. Exactly ... the probabilities are high. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 18, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 18, 2009 Do you think they were legals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shane No' date=' that is not safe to say. That is like me looking at a black man and saying it is safe to say he probably has a child born out of wedlock. [/quote'] Exactly ... the probabilities are high. Redwood, that is so not true. It's a terrible stereotype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Do you think they were legals? It's hard to say. The majority of the Spanish speaking people that I know are legals. They may not be citizens, but they have work permits and/or are working on getting citizenship. So they are not illegal; they are legal. I know we tend to stereotype Spanish speaking people as being illegal. But there are many, many people in this country who speak English and who are illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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