Nutiny extreem video. or is it?

[Joe_in_RP]

47 Min video

This video is about 9 month old.

Don't watch it. Just ignore me. I'll go away.

[carolaa]

OK, here's the cliff notes version, taken from Wikipedia:

"...the 10 steps necessary for a Fascistic group (or government) to destroy the democratic character of a nation-state and subvert the social/political liberty previously exercised by its citizens:

Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy.

Create secret prisons where torture takes place.

Develop a thug caste or paramilitary force not answerable to citizens.

Set up an internal surveillance system.

Harass citizens' groups.

Engage in arbitrary detention and release.

Target key individuals.

Control the press.

Treat all political dissidents as traitors.

Suspend the rule of law.[29]

The book details how this pattern was implemented in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and elsewhere, and analyzes its emergence and application in American political affairs since the September 11 attacks."

[Neil D]

Don't let Redwood see this, nor Shane nor Olger....

I don't think that thier views of Bush could stand this....

But heavey stuff man...

[Joe_in_RP]

Yes but you miss the delivery of this wonderful women. Don't cheat yourself.

[carolaa]

I'll probably watch it another time. I've heard/read her before. :)

[carolaa]

Don't let Redwood see this, nor Shane nor Olger....

I don't think that thier views of Bush could stand this....

But heavey stuff man...

Interestingly, I believe both the Nazis and the Fascists were far right conservative on the politicial scale. I don't think anyone would put Obama in that category.

[Jeannieb43]

Obama has been systematically reversing the rules of the Bush administration which fit Naomi Wolf's list.

[olger]

Objectively interesting...

[Joe_in_RP]

Obama has been systematically reversing the rules of the Bush administration which fit Naomi Wolf's list.

Really. Then why are they still building 4 permanent super bases in Iraq?

No talk of troop withdrawal.

Why has he doubled the troops in Afghanistan?

Why has he not closed Guantanamo ?

Why is he setting up 2 new paramilitary forces?

Pay attention folks. We are getting closer.

[phkrause]

Man the guy has only been in office a few months!!!! And he has mentioned most of the things, but hasn't gotten to them.

pk

[Joe_in_RP]

Watch what he does, not what he says.

The names and faces have changed, but the story remains the same.

[carolaa]

I agree about watching what he does and not just what he says. So far about half of what he has done seems like lip service rather than real change (which even that is a step in the right direction), but I'm willing to give him time and see what he does. It's hard for people to be patient when they are so hungry for change.

Right now, I'm especially curious how he will respond to Iran. They are definitely watching his actions and not falling for smooth words. That reminds me, I'm going to go make a post on the AIPAC thread.

[Key Guy]

Naomi wanted Bush to be impeached (and locked up) obviously because she anticipated a power grab before the general election through contrived threats and violence leading to martial law.

Didn't happen.

Not only did it not happen, but the transition of power following the election was reported as one of the most smooth transitions in US history (remember how the Clinton staffers trashed furniture and equipment on their way out?).

Yes, I am opposed to the Patriot Act. But on the other side of that coin was the strengthening of our Second Amendment under the Bush administration. You cannot have an improved right to defend against tyranny on the path to to a dictatorship.

Fast forward to the present.

* Our democratic leaders are once again trying to ban 'assault weapons' (will somebody please define that term for me?).

* Our democratic leaders are warming up to the United Nations, placing our sovereign nation status at risk by willingly accepting the 'authority' of the corrupt UN leadership. The Bush admin basically told the UN to shut up and stay out of our affairs.

* Our democratic leadership is raising taxes to a new level never seen before. Tell me that isn't oppressive to a free society. There is a reason more and more tea parties are springing up around the country. I suppose Naomi didn't see that coming and I'd be curious as to her reaction to that grassroot uprising.

* Our democratic leadership wants to permit illegal aliens not only to stay in county, but to give them undeserved and unearned monetary benefits and voting rights. Can you spell chaos?

* Our democratic leadership wants to give convicted felons the right to vote... like they have the country's best interest at heart.

* Our democratic leadership is taking us even further away from the gold standard. This fast-tracks us down the road to economic collapse, opening the door for more direct gov't involvement. Naomi, where's your #11 on economic control of the people?

Naomi is guilty of creating the same fear she blames on the right wing. Is she totally wrong? No. But she's certainly not totally right.

As was mentioned before, time will tell how we as a country will be losing freedoms. We know it's coming. I hold that we are in for a big surprise when it happens, not fitting the popular scenarios, and may actually begin in earnest to the applause of the left.

[Neil D]

Naomi wanted Bush to be impeached (and locked up) obviously because she anticipated a power grab before the general election through contrived threats and violence leading to martial law.

Didn't happen.

[carolaa]

Our democratic leadership is raising taxes to a new level never seen before. Tell me that isn't oppressive to a free society. There is a reason more and more tea parties are springing up around the country.

* Our democratic leadership wants to give convicted felons the right to vote... like they have the country's best interest at heart.

I'm not sure it's true that taxes are being raised "to a new level never seen before." At any rate, I wonder where the tea parties were when the national debt was doubled during the last administration.

I have no problem with convicted felons having the right to vote. I doubt many of them actually want to vote, but those who do should certainly be allowed to.

[Key Guy]

I'll address these one point at a time

"Transition of power SMOOTH??? What do you call one of the biggest meltdowns of the economy since the great depression....And it seems to me that the report of "trashed furniture and equipment" was based upon a few worn pieces of equipment and a lot of imagination...a bogus report..."control the press" is one of the theorys advanced by Naomi"

(it's 'theories')

The stimulus package of nearly $1 trillion dwarfs the package of Oct, '08.

The 'w' keys were removed from the computer keyboards and the White House travel office was literally trashed. I didn't make this up.

Even if the equipment was 'worn' (which it was not), those actions were both childish and criminal.

[Key Guy]

"* Our democratic leadership wants to give convicted felons the right to vote... like they have the country's best interest at heart.

Again, sources for this premise?"

See below:

First a reprinted comment...

"Well, why not let felons vote? Because you don’t have a right to make laws if you aren’t willing to follow them yourself. To participate in self-government, you must be willing to accept the rule of law.

We don’t let everyone vote; children, noncitizens and the mentally incompetent don’t. Voting requires certain minimum, objective standards of trustworthiness, loyalty and responsibility, and those who have committed serious crimes against their fellow citizens don’t meet those standards."

(from: http://www.examiner.com/a-1502826~Should_felons_have_the_right_to_vote____NO__Felon_disenfranchisement_is_actually_a_good_idea.html)

"Democrat Mark Warner, who served as governor (of VA) from 2002 to 2006, streamlined the paperwork and restored voting rights to 3,500 felons, more than the previous five governors combined.

His successor, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, also a Democrat, has restored rights to more than 2,500 felons so far - 40 percent more than had regained their rights at the same point in the Warner administration.

(from: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/activists-helping-restore-felons-voting-rights-election)

Some states (conservative, like Utah) have actually tightened the restrictions on voting by felons.

[Key Guy]

"* Our democratic leadership is taking us even further away from the gold standard. This fast-tracks us down the road to economic collapse, opening the door for more direct gov't involvement. Naomi, where's your #11 on economic control of the people?

Again, the premise's of Naomi Watts, don't include economic factors...."

Why not? Why shouldn't economic factors influence a dictator's attempt to gain control of a nation? Fact is, Hitler capitalized on Germany's economic crisis and made draconian changes that were accepted by the populace that wanted a 'messiah', a savior. We are seeing the American public accepting disastrous economic policies from our own version of a messiah.

[Key Guy]

"Yes, I am opposed to the Patriot Act. But on the other side of that coin was the strengthening of our Second Amendment under the Bush administration. You cannot have an improved right to defend against tyranny on the path to to a dictatorship.

How can you "strengthen the second amendment" without creating " terrifying internal and external enemy"?"

The strengthening of the right to self-protection came in the form of the relaxing of the assault weapon ban and placing the burden of proof to restrict citizens from owning firearms back on the gov't.

[Key Guy]

"* Our democratic leadership wants to permit illegal aliens not only to stay in county, but to give them undeserved and unearned monetary benefits and voting rights. Can you spell chaos?

um...where is this being advanced by the Obmama administration? what reports are being shown to support this premise?"

(from: http://voices.kansascity.com/node/1653) 7/14/08

"Obama promises amnesty for illegal immigrants

By Ross Balano, Midwest Voices Columnist 2008

Democrat presidential nominee Barack Obama today speaking to the National Council of La Raza in San Diego promised amnesty for the more than 12 million illegal immigrants that are living in the United States.

Here’s a bit of what Obama had to say: “Yes, they broke the law. And we should not excuse that. We should require them to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship - behind those who came here legally. But we cannot - and should not - deport 12 million people. ”

Obama went on to say: “That's why we need to offer those who are willing to make amends a pathway to citizenship. That way, we can reconcile our values as both a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws.”"

Really, Neil... you cannot find these news items for yourself? Good thing you have me around.

[Bravus]

Coupla days late, but what does the word 'nutiny' in the thread title mean? Is it a typo for 'mutiny'? Or a kool way of spelling 'new tiny'? Or...?

[Joe_in_RP]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Its not a republican vs Democrat world anymore. I wish it was.

The fact is the new leader is continuing the programs of the old leader and adding new ones just as if the old leader was still in office.

The wars are getting bigger.

The economy is on a crash coarse. This is not an accident. It is all planned by Satan.

[Joe_in_RP]

SB nutty. She called herself nutty extremist in the beginning.

[carolaa]

I'll address these one point at a time

"Transition of power SMOOTH??? What do you call one of the biggest meltdowns of the economy since the great depression....And it seems to me that the report of "trashed furniture and equipment" was based upon a few worn pieces of equipment and a lot of imagination...a bogus report..."control the press" is one of the theorys advanced by Naomi"

(it's 'theories')

The stimulus package of nearly $1 trillion dwarfs the package of Oct, '08.

The 'w' keys were removed from the computer keyboards and the White House travel office was literally trashed. I didn't make this up.

Even if the equipment was 'worn' (which it was not), those actions were both childish and criminal.

I'm not sure if you intended that to be a response to me or not. If so, I'm not sure what it had to do with my post.

[carolaa]

"* Our democratic leadership wants to give convicted felons the right to vote... like they have the country's best interest at heart.

Again, sources for this premise?"

See below:

First a reprinted comment...

"Well, why not let felons vote? Because you don’t have a right to make laws if you aren’t willing to follow them yourself. To participate in self-government, you must be willing to accept the rule of law.

We don’t let everyone vote; children, noncitizens and the mentally incompetent don’t. Voting requires certain minimum, objective standards of trustworthiness, loyalty and responsibility, and those who have committed serious crimes against their fellow citizens don’t meet those standards."

(from: http://www.examiner.com/a-1502826~Should_felons_have_the_right_to_vote____NO__Felon_disenfranchisement_is_actually_a_good_idea.html)

"Democrat Mark Warner, who served as governor (of VA) from 2002 to 2006, streamlined the paperwork and restored voting rights to 3,500 felons, more than the previous five governors combined.

His successor, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, also a Democrat, has restored rights to more than 2,500 felons so far - 40 percent more than had regained their rights at the same point in the Warner administration.

(from: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/activists-helping-restore-felons-voting-rights-election)

Some states (conservative, like Utah) have actually tightened the restrictions on voting by felons.

The problem with that reasoning is that people change. Children grow up, and then they can vote. Noncitizens become citizens, and then they can vote. Mentally incompetent people sometimes get better. And convicted felons do their punishment, so they should be able to vote.