Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Quote: You say that you know what the left is recommending. You say that Obama is making our country a socialist nation....Well, guys, here is what one left mag is saying that we need to do with the finanical institutions... Are you sure that you know Obama's mind????Here is what the left want... Geithner’s Public Private Partnership Puts Public Most at Risk By Matthew Rothschild, March 23, 2009 Tim Geithner’s at it again, doing somersaults, with hundreds of billions of federal money flying out of his pockets in the process, all to distract us from the more sensible course of action, which is to nationalize the insolvent banks. Instead, he wants to scrub their assets clean by having the government and some private speculators buy up their bad bets. Geithner calls it the Public Private Partnership Investment Program, and if he were playing scrabble, he’d be all out of Ps. But don’t be confused. The public is taking the biggest risk, whereas the private speculators, for a tiny investment, can gain quite a lot. Here’s the deal. Say a bank has a bad mortgage loan that it is holding for $100,000. The government will set up an auction to determine what the mortgage really is worth. Say the highest private bid for the mortgage is $84,000. The government will provide $72,000 in a loan guarantee, and then the private investor would put up only $6,000, which the government would match with its own $6,000 stake. So the government, you and I, are on the hook for $78,000 whereas the private investor has only $6,000 of skin in the game. But get this: The private speculator gets to control the management of the asset, and not the government, even though we’re on the hook for about 93% of the risk. “The Treasury intends to provide 50 percent of the equity capital,” Geithner’s fact sheet says, “but private managers will retain control of asset management subject to rigorous oversight from the FDIC.” Geithner infamously said, just a few days after he became Treasury Secretary, that “we have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we’d like to do our best to preserve that system.” And he is doing his best at that, which is all the worse for us. Quote: What say you regarding this? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 27, 2009 Members Share Posted March 27, 2009 That's the way it goes. We will play and you will pay. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 27, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2009 Let the banks fail. We are only prolonging the inevitable. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 27, 2009 Members Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree. And I think greed has had alot to say as to how things have been going, and how they will continue to go. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 27, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2009 HEY LAZARUS I think before the banks fail the pope will get involved dbgrimm6o help me on that one....i.e. explain! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 The point of this article, folks, is that they [the left] want the goverment to take over the banks...that is, nationalise the banks.... This shows 2 things- 1] Obama is not the socialist that some here are saying 2]Obama is aiming to keep the banks private... Claims of Obama being the most socialistic goverment official, are just plain false..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_in_RP Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Maybe if there was an audit of the Federal Reserve and we could find out exactly who the owners are (stockholders of the fed), we could understand this a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 HEY NEIL D president OBAMA can still have socialistic ideas and still nationalize the banks dgrimm60 I just don't understand this persistance in claiming that Obama is a socialist or driving the country to socialism.... Consider that Obama is on the record for NOT nationalizing the banks...He is NOT going to nationalize them banks..... ....So, at what point, Doug, does Obama's ideas become "NON-socialistic"? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: dgrimm60 HEY NEIL D president OBAMA can still have socialistic ideas and still nationalize the banks dgrimm60 I just don't understand this persistance in claiming that Obama is a socialist or driving the country to socialism.... Consider that Obama is on the record for NOT nationalizing the banks...He is NOT going to nationalize them banks..... ....So, at what point, Doug, does Obama's ideas become "NON-socialistic"? With Obama you have to look at what he does and not what he says. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Doug, It's been over 60 days since the inauguration. Did you hear a call for the nationalization of banks???? No, in fact, Obama has said that he is not seeking to do that. The economic bail out was a perfect time for a socialistic elected individual to push for socialism...Has any of that happen??? No, in fact, he has not incorporated those socialistic ideas from the socialism party...Hillary has been proven wrong. Republicans have been proven wrong...Doug, if you continue to push this idea without evidence, you are wrong... What is it gonna take to show you evidence that will change your mind? ...and your retoric, for that matter...? The guy is NO WHERE near the socialistic left that you guys have been trying to establish... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Is Obama a Socialist? By Henry Lamb © 2009 Socialism, according to Karl Marx, is the transition between capitalism and communism. To achieve communism, Marx says, there must be continuing revolution in which the fundamental principal is: The end justifies the means. For more than half a century, capitalism in the United States has taken a beating from the socialist revolution. Despite the best efforts of conservatives since the Roosevelt era, socialists have made great strides toward converting the nation to socialism. Apparently, the majority of Americans either fail to recognize the transition, or welcome it. The enthusiastic support for Barack Obama, especially among young people, is abundant evidence. Obama has declared that he believes every person has a "right" to health care. The Socialist Party USA believes every person has a "right" to health care. Obama believes that labor unions should be allowed to organize without a secret ballot. The Socialist Party USA calls for unions to be recognized without a secret ballot. (Hear Obama's words here.) The Socialist Party USA recognizes the "right" of adequate housing for everyone. Obama trained ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) workers to secure mortgages for unqualified people in sufficient numbers to collapse the housing and home-financing industries. (Column continues below) The Socialist Party USA believes that "capitalism is fundamentally incompatible" with socialism. For years, Obama worked in Chicago through the Annenberg Challenge, along with Bill Ayers, to funnel more than $50 million to anti-capitalist education projects. In November 2006, Ayers traveled to Venezuela to speak at Hugo Chavez's Education Forum where he railed against "the failings of capitalist education," and praised the "Bolivarian Revolution and the profound reforms in education made by Hugo Chavez." The Socialist Party USA believes in open borders and six-months residency as the only requirement for U.S. citizenship. Obama marched with illegal aliens in Chicago in support of "comprehensive" immigration reform. Listen to Obama's promises to La Raza in 2007. The Socialist Party USA calls for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Obama says, "I will end this war," with never a reference to "winning" or "victory." The Socialist Party USA calls for the "unconditional disarmament" by the United States. Obama has promised to dramatically reduce defense spending. Listen to his words here. The Socialist Party USA calls for a "livable guaranteed annual income." Obama trained ACORN members to conduct "Living Wage" campaigns in cities around the country. The Socialist Party USA calls for a "steeply graduated" tax policy to redistribute wealth. Obama has promised to increase the tax burden on the rich to redistribute wealth to the poor. He revealed his philosophy when answering a question from Joe the plumber, who complained that he was being taxed for his success. Obama said: It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody. This list of comparisons could be quite long. This is sufficient to reveal an unmistakable similarity between Obama's political beliefs and the beliefs of the Socialist Party USA. The tragedy is that Obama's supporters don't care. In fact, many of his supporters are delighted that he promises to usher in a new era of socialism, and push the memory of capitalism further into history. Socialists, who are in perpetual revolution, who believe that the end justifies the means, have worked through educational institutions, non-government organizations such as ACORN and by electing socialists to public office to silence teaching the virtues of free enterprise, capitalism, private property, individual responsibility and personal achievement. For nearly two generations, students have been fed a steady diet of socialism under a variety of disguises, including Outcome Based Education, No Child Left Behind, School-to-Work and a host of other "feel good" slogans. Students and young adults no longer know why capitalism is better than socialism. Like Obama, young people really believe that when government redistributes wealth, "it's good for everybody." They do not realize that wealth redistribution is no substitute for wealth creation. They are never taught that the only way to create wealth is for an individual to combine his energy and intellect with resources to produce a product that improves his life, or for which someone else is willing to pay. Private property, the accumulation of personal prosperity and individual achievement are anathema to socialism. Socialism sees the individual as nothing more than a cog in a government-run machine designed to ensure equity for all. Capitalism seeks prosperity; socialism seeks equity. Freedom increases as prosperity increases. In a socialist system, there can be neither. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78330 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Doug, the problem is not whether you are wrong...it is not that you voted for another party...The problem is not whether you voted for clinton or bush.... The problem is the percieve attitude that Obama is a socialist and is pushing socialist agendas when evidence shows that when opertunity presents itself, there is no social agenda...there is no push for those socialistic agendas... In this case, the goverment could have allowed AIG to fail, causing most of the country's banks to fail, and then the goverment could have stepped in and took over the banks...Bush did'nt let that happen...Neither did Obama.... So, the question to you is why do you persist in claiming that Obama is pushing socialism's agenda.....? What evidence is it gonna take for you to believe that Obama is NOT pushing a socialism that you can't live with? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 If you take the time to go thru this man's history ,all that mentored him,all that shaped his ideology you will not find anything except socialists a avowed marxist or two and I think even a communist. This is by his words,no one else's. It is not a crime in this country to be a socialist, it is a lie to campaign under one definition and be so clearly favorably impressed and in agreement with socialism. Even his new spiritual advisor has quite an interesting background. Obama speaks as a socialist and claims to be a democrat. This country was not founded or based on redistribution of wealth. That is the least of Obama's desires Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 If you take the time to go thru this man's history ,all that mentored him,all that shaped his ideology you will not find anything except socialists a avowed marxist or two and I think even a communist.This is by his words,no one else's. It is not a crime in this country to be a socialist, it is a lie to campaign under one definition and be so clearly favorably impressed and in agreement with socialism. Even his new spiritual advisor has quite an interesting background. Obama speaks as a socialist and claims to be a democrat. This country was not founded or based on redistribution of wealth. That is the least of Obama's desires Good Post Bonnie. Don't forget what he said to Joe the Plumber. Redistribution of Wealth. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I wonder why some people believe that basic human needs - such as food, water, shelter, healthcare - are privileges rather than rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 HEY NEIL D you came out saying that president OBAMA did not have socialistic ideas all I SAID was he still could have socialistic ideas and work with insiders from WASHINGTON D.C. I hope I AM making my self clear dgrimm60 no....no,....you are not making yourself clear....In fact, it seems you are clouding the issues even further... Are you saying that all the ideas in Washington are socialistic ideas? Are there "non-socialistic ideas" that would fit your criteria? At what point would you concider that an idea would fit into the "non-socialistic" definition? Why would Obama, who is not interested in nationalising banks, even entertain socialistic ideas? What makes one think that he is going to go that direction? Does the economy have any part to play in seeking a solution for this socialistic agenda? Ever consider running for political office, Doug? You just might have a nack for politics.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I wonder why some people believe that basic human needs - such as food, water, shelter, healthcare - are privileges rather than rights. I wonder why so many think that it is a right. They all have a right to pursue the means of obtaining what you consider rights. You do not have a right to health care paid for by others. Health care is made out to be such a crisis and everyone jumps on the old bandwagon. Most people have acess to health care,many more than should at the expense of another. When we could not pay for heath care and keep our sons in boarding academy we made a conscious decision to not have health care. Our world did not end nor were we paralyzed with fear. A couple of times the unexpected happened and we faced major expense. We were not denied and we were put on a payment plan. If you cannot afford prescriptions they can and will be provided. Most drug companies have a number you can call and receive it at much reduced or free depending on income. During my mothers last few months she needed very expensive meds. My brothers and I took care of her needs but if we couldn't or refused she would have received it anyway. There will always be those that fall thru the cracks and that is where our energies should be focused. Not on the able but unwilling to take care of their own needs and want big daddy to do so. What my obligations or reaction to another needs should be as a christian is totally seperate from making the government responsible for my food,shelter and medical care. Where does any one find it written that everything is a right? Sometimes those rights may require 2 and even 3 jobs. Some do just that and do not want to redistribute what is in your pocket to someone else's. I know many that have done so including my husband. Even after he went into business for himself his typical work week was 60-70 hours a week. It is not special talent that allows people to do this,it is called motivation. I wish someone could show me where it is written that those like my husband should be glad to donate half his work hours per week for those that won't work as hard? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I never said everything should be a right. Just basic human needs. These should be available for everyone. If some people want more than the basic human needs, they are perfectly within their rights to go after it. We consider food, water, shelter, and healthcare to be rights for prisoners. Why not for everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I never said everything should be a right. Just basic human needs. These should be available for everyone. If some people want more than the basic human needs, they are perfectly within their rights to go after it. We consider food, water, shelter, and healthcare to be rights for prisoners. Why not for everyone? Prisoners are confined in an environment where they would starve if not provided for. Because of what they have done their right and ability to take care of their own needs is no longer an option. Who gave the able bodied the right to "basic needs" by having them provided by another? If they are within their rights and capabilities to go after more than their basic needs then they have no right to go after mine. I am not talking about christian giving,I am talking about the right they feel they have to the government taking mine and giving to another. Any help given should not be a hand out,it should be a hand up. Not year after year of a lack of motivation and waiting on the government to take it from me and put it in their pocket Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 HEY NEIL I REALLY DON'T care what OBAMA'S VIEW ARE dgrimm60 If you really don't care, Doug,...then why promote the myth as reality???? i was dealing with what you had said, not anyone else...The evidence is before you...a golden oppertunity of socializing the nations banks is currently here...and no legislation attempting to do so....no push from the White House....Rather a distinct clarification that there will be no nationalization of banks.... ...again, how can you promote the idea that he can entertain the idea of pushing a socialist agenda when that is not the case???? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Any help given should not be a hand out,it should be a hand up. I'm not talking about a handout or a hand up. Basic human needs should be available to all. One role of government should be to ensure that these basic human needs are not privatized for profit but are accessible to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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