Moderators lazarus Posted April 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2009 Why are we killing each other? Is the 45 deaths from mass killings part of the ebb and flow of violence in society or is it something more? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Good question Laz. I choose "something more" for $200. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I think you could be right. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 HEY ALL I THINK people are losing hope and they can not face the future.... dgrimm60 "loosing hope"? perhaps it is ceding to fears...both political and religious..... And all over a myth...... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yes but have you noticed that each killing, they kill 1 or 2 more than the previous one. I do agree that people are having less and less hope, but I think its do to a lack of having Jesus in there lives, which equals a lack of hope. I think our society is getting less and less spiritual, not sure that is the right word I want to use, but it will have to do for now. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yes but have you noticed that each killing, they kill 1 or 2 more than the previous one. I do agree that people are having less and less hope, but I think its do to a lack of having Jesus in there lives, which equals a lack of hope. I think our society is getting less and less spiritual, not sure that is the right word I want to use, but it will have to do for now. pk Yes Pkrause, I have to agree with ya... Our society is getting less and less spiritual and more and more secular. Everyone I know basically doesn't care about God or Jesus, they just want to party and get drunk and have all their sex, booze and drugs and alcohol. It's a very sad, sad, sad world we're living in today. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 The more reason to believe that Jesus needs to come and end this. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yeah, It surely is the end of the world, just like Matthew 24, with lots of false prophets and false teachers, and so forth, and pestilences and..... it's just ongoing. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yes but have you noticed that each killing, they kill 1 or 2 more than the previous one. Is this true? Do you have any statistics that demonstrate this trend? It seems to me that each one of these lamentable episodes seems to have a number of victims that varies with the particular circumstances, and does not follow any sort of upward trend. Then again I have no stats available for this statement either. Go figure. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 I don't have any statics either, but watching the news each day you notice that. Not saying that each time its more but its as if each one is trying to out do the other. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted April 6, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'm sorry, I going to go "there" again. I don't understand why Americans accept this incredible slaughter of innocents as the price for the right to bear arms. In the UK (population c. 60.5m) there were 765 reported incidents of murder for 2005-6 (Home Office, undated) - a rate of about 1.1 per 100,000. In the US (population c. 298.5m) there were an estimated 16,137 homicides in 2004 (FBI, 2006a) - a rate of about 5.4 per 100,000. Of these, 10,654 were carried out with guns (FBI, 2006b). Control the guns, cut the murder rate! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 That's to simple lazarus... pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Lots of discussion online as to why gun control doesn't exactly 'work': http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm http://porcupinenine.blogspot.com/2005/10/comparing-us-and-uk-murder-rates.html From the second link, I find this interesting: Quote: Washington, DC has a UK-like ban on handguns, and it has the highest murder rate in the US, by far. I'd love to see Malcolm Gladwell write a book on gun control; it would certainly shed some much needed light on the topic. As pkrause said, "[gun control]'s too simple." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Many of these mass murders are linked to psychiatric drugs. Mental Health: It's Life, Not Depression Excerpt from above article: Quote: ..And They Kill People In addition to being ineffective, SSRIs are dangerous. They cause sexual dysfunction, weight gain, emotional apathy, headaches, insomnia, and gastrointestinal (GI) upset, and they have been linked with GI and uterine bleeding. But their most alarming side effect is an increased risk of suicide, hostility, akathisia (extreme agitation), and violent behavior. Thousands of suicides, senseless murders, and other random acts of violence have been committed by people who were taking SSRIs. Michael McDermott went to work with an AK-47-type rifle, a shotgun, and a semiautomatic pistol, and killed seven of his coworkers. Kip Kinkel murdered his parents then went to school where he killed two and wounded 22 of his fellow students. Kristine Cushing used a .38-caliber pistol to shoot and kill her two young daughters while they slept; she then shot and wounded herself. Seung-Hui Cho went on a murderous rampage that resulted in 33 deaths and dozens of injuries. At greatest risk are our children. The instigators of virtually all of the tragic school murder/suicides in recent years were taking an antidepressant or other psychotropic drugs. The same goes for more personal family tragedies, such as uncharacteristic suicides, self-harm, and violent behaviors that rip families apart. Prescription drugs connected to school shootings and other violence Omaha Shooter Robert Hawkins Had Been "Treated" For ADHD, Depression Unfortunately, I couldn't find the article that contained a list of incidents and the whether or not psychiatric drugs were involved. Not all of them did involve prescription drugs, but many of them did. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted April 6, 2009 Administrators Share Posted April 6, 2009 How do they differentiate as to whether it was the drugs that caused the final breakdown or the illness itself? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted April 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2009 A patient who is taking psychotropic drugs must be monitored carefully by a psychiatrist who specializes in psychotropic medication. If the patient stops taking the meds, or if he stops seeing his doctor, he will decompensate and act out worse than before. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2009 If gun control is too simple, then the difference between the US and UK murder rates must be some characteristic of the American people. I'd have thought that was a much more worrying thought than losing the guns, personally. Interesting how we all manage to blame our own pet evils - the pharmaceutical industry, guns, video games, lack of religious belief. It'd be interesting to see stats on religious background vs mass killings, btw. The original question was 'why', and it seems to me that guns supply more of a 'how'. The 'why' is a much harder question, and part of the problem is that we seek a single-factor answer when it's almost always a multi-factor problem. Each individual shooter is quite different and has different reasons and motivations and mental illnesses (in some cases). To the mixture of influence above we could add TV and movie violence, divorce and single-parent families, bullying, alienation, drug use, lack of sleep, and a vast number of others. It's a complexity science problem: millions of people have many of the factors listed above in various combinations, but only a tiny proportion of them go on murderous rampages. There's some kind of 'perfect storm' situation where all the factors come together... and we don't fully understand it, and may never. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 the answer is simple sin dgrimm60 I have to agree with you Dgrimm60... The answer is that three letter word called, "SIN"... very dangerous at times... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 General Post, and not replying to anyone in particular....just sharing... I think it is unfair to compare one particular country that has a population of a little more than 60 million people to another country that has a little over 300 million people, while trying to make a valid case for gun control. Of course, the country with more people is naturally going to have more crime. You are comparing apples to oranges. I found a paper while googling that talks about the ten worst countries. The USA doesn't even rank in the top ten, until they start doing it by cities. Here is the article it is called Death by Murder, by Ben Best. One of the charts that I found interesting happens about a third of the way down, it charts homicides to suicides...It seems that when homicides go down, suicides go up. Murder by Death, by Ben Best Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 dgrimm sin is the obvious answer and I think everyone will agree with that. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2009 Agreed, it's true: but it's true but not that useful. There is a cure for sin, but we can't apply it by force to the whole country. Does that mean we have to give up on reducing the incidence of mass killings? I don't think so. So although that statement is the truth, we also need to look at the various ways in which sin plays out in individual lives that leads to these situations (I listed a few above) and try to provide relief from the symptoms where the patient won't accept the cure... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2009 Quote: I think it is unfair to compare one particular country that has a population of a little more than 60 million people to another country that has a little over 300 million people, while trying to make a valid case for gun control. Of course, the country with more people is naturally going to have more crime. You are comparing apples to oranges. Quote: In the UK (population c. 60.5m) there were 765 reported incidents of murder for 2005-6 (Home Office, undated) - a rate of about 1.1 per 100,000. In the US (population c. 298.5m) there were an estimated 16,137 homicides in 2004 (FBI, 2006a) - a rate of about 5.4 per 100,000. Of these, 10,654 were carried out with guns (FBI, 2006b). The statistics lazarus quoted were corrected for population, and still show that for every 100,000 people in each country, 1.1 Britons will be murdered and 5.4 Americans will be murdered. Corrected for population, an American is 5 times more likely to be murdered than a Briton. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Bravus it could easily be a characteristic of the UK people instead of the US people. And I agree with your 3rd paragraph very much. It makes a lot of sense. I see a lot of these senseless killings as a direct influence to TV, and especially to the news. Not saying that we should get rid of the news, but if you look at the results from one killing to the next you can see a direct correlation. Like the guy at Binghamton, put on a chest protector. So the next guy probably having seen the shootings of the 4 police officers, than decides well I'll kill a few cops myself and to make sure they don't kill me right away I'll wear a chest protector like the guy who kill those people in NY. But that didn't work out like he'd hope since they killed him before he could kill too many cops. Not saying that these people don't have something wrong with them, but like you mentioned there are many other factors invloved. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm sorry, I going to go "there" again. I don't understand why Americans accept this incredible slaughter of innocents as the price for the right to bear arms. In the UK (population c. 60.5m) there were 765 reported incidents of murder for 2005-6 (Home Office, undated) - a rate of about 1.1 per 100,000. In the US (population c. 298.5m) there were an estimated 16,137 homicides in 2004 (FBI, 2006a) - a rate of about 5.4 per 100,000. Of these, 10,654 were carried out with guns (FBI, 2006b). Control the guns, cut the murder rate! City boy aint never shot a groundhog, I reckon. Punish the criminals and leave the good people (huge majority) a-lone. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2009 There certainly have been mass shootings in other parts of the world: Martin Bryant in Tasmania and that guy at Dunblane in Scotland. I guess I could be mildly controversial and suggest that Sampson's ass-jawbone rampage was one, but that was in war... So it seems to be a human phenomenon, not just an American one. I agree, getting into the gun control debate again just gives us a contentious and pointless thread. As I said above, I don't think single-cause approaches work: and most often they say more about the prejudices and attitudes of those who advance them than about the phenomenon in itself. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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