there buster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: and when did he say, when I get to meet the saudi king, I'm not going to bow? When he took the oath of office. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 So let me hear the oath of office that says those exact words, I will not bow to the king of saudi arabia? pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: I'm still uncertain as to whether or not the Gibbs statement can be considered "official". well, how about the "official" WHite House transcript of the press conference. And yes, the press secretary is the 'official' spokesman for the President. When the Press Secretary speaks, it is official. White House transcript Good Point there buster. It don't get any more official than that. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: and when did he say, when I get to meet the saudi king, I'm not going to bow? When he took the oath of office. This is true. Good point. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: So let me hear the oath of office that says those exact words That's a ridiculous objection. The oath of office also does not say, "I will not give aid and comfort to the enemy." It says "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." It is a matter of long settled policy that the President does not bow to monarchs, as that would indicate their sovereignty over him, and would compromise the sovereignty of the United States. By violating that policy, he failed to faithfully execute his office. Wedding vows don't say "I won't go to strip clubs every night," but any sensible person recognizes that it is a violation of those vows. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Failure to execute the office is not the equivalent to lying about one's actions, however. It might be deemed more offensive, but it is not the same as lying. Just sayin'. [/Aubrey signing off this thread.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 That's not an objection, its a statement!!!!! It has been claimed that someone has lied by either saying or by his actions. I'm just curious were he has said that he would not bow, and you said its in the constitution, so show me were it says that! Or is that to difficult? pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Failure to execute the office is not the equivalent to lying about one's actions, however. It might be deemed more offensive, but it is not the same as lying. Just sayin'. [/Aubrey signing off this thread.] The man bowed to the Saudi king. This is not something the president does. The man thru his spokesman said he did not bow. He is lying, you can see it. He is lying about his actions while representing the US in that capacity. He did not have to bow down to Queen Elizabeth while shaking her hand. She is much shorter as well. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 The official spokeman for the president made the statement that Obama did not bow. Truth is and all have seen ... The president DID bow whether he thinks so or not. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Aubrey Failure to execute the office is not the equivalent to lying about one's actions, however. It might be deemed more offensive, but it is not the same as lying. Just sayin'. [/Aubrey signing off this thread.] The man bowed to the Saudi king. This is not something the president does. The man thru his spokesman said he did not bow. He is lying, you can see it. He is lying about his actions while representing the US in that capacity. He did not have to bow down to Queen Elizabeth while shaking her hand. She is much shorter as well. This rises to an impeachable offense. I hope someone will start impeachment proceedings. We are his employers. When the president of the United States lies to the people he is to serve ... that is an impeachable offense. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: That's not an objection, its a statement!!!!! It has been claimed that someone has lied by either saying or by his actions. I'm just curious were he has said that he would not bow, and you said its in the constitution, so show me were it says that! Or is that to difficult? YOu can look at the video of his actions for himself. How he greeted King Abdullah, and how he greeted Queen Elizabeth--who is shorter than Abdullah. It seems pretty obvious. I have posted the White House link where they deny it was a bow. As for the Constitution, I said nothing about that. I said it was in the oath of office, specifically the clause of "faithfully executing the office." Ceding sovereignty is not "faithfully executing the office." Before you raise another specious objection, the President was not acting as a private person--say, as when he purchases a home or an automobile--he was acting as Head of State, which is precisely why he was there with the other Heads of State. As such, his actions are representative and symbolic. Bowing before another Head of State indicates subservience. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: This rises to an impeachable offense. I would not think so, though it is malfeasance. Besides, this President will never be impeached unless he is found personally selling state secrets to our enemies. Even then, whoever attempted it would be called 'racist.' Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: This rises to an impeachable offense. I would not think so, though it is malfeasance. Besides, this President will never be impeached unless he is found personally selling state secrets to our enemies. Even then, whoever attempted it would be called 'racist.' Good points. I bow to you on this one. I guess I was just remembering all the petty reasons the other side would come up with to try to impeach Bush and Chaney. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Let me just say this ... IF we had voted for Palin/McCain ... we would not be having all these troubles. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I guess I was just remembering all the petty reasons the other side would come up with to try to impeach Bush and Chaney. When Bush passed gas and then lied about it that was definitely an impeachable offense. Especially since he blamed it on Laura! Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Let me just say this ... IF we had voted for Palin/McCain ... we would not be having all these troubles. I completely agree..we wouldn't having some of these problems, but we would be having other problems. No leader has ever been problem free, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood I guess I was just remembering all the petty reasons the other side would come up with to try to impeach Bush and Chaney. When Bush passed gas and then lied about it that was definitely an impeachable offense. Especially since he blamed it on Laura! ROFL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 >>When Bush passed gas and then lied about it that was definitely an impeachable offense. Especially since he blamed it on Laura!<< Is this such as has been asserted - goofy? :-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I've seen the video many times, and I've mentioned that if you or anyone else thinks that he is bowing that's fine with me. I see nothing wrong, if indeed he was bowing. And when I said you mentioned the constitution, obviously I meant the oath of office. And as I can see it says nothing about bowing. And to me bowing doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is ceding to anyone else. The way I see the Queen of England, she is just a figure head and shaking of hands is the appropriate form of greeting, as far as the nation of Saudi Arabia is concerned, the King is not a figure head, he is the main person, and the official greeting is to bow, which equals getting on your knees and really bowing very low. Obama's greeting was as I see it a very miner bow and a handshake. My 2 cents worth. May we should just agree to disagree. pk pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I've seen the video many times, and I've mentioned that if you or anyone else thinks that he is bowing that's fine with me. I see nothing wrong, if indeed he was bowing. And when I said you mentioned the constitution, obviously I meant the oath of office. And as I can see it says nothing about bowing. And to me bowing doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is ceding to anyone else. The way I see the Queen of England, she is just a figure head and shaking of hands is the appropriate form of greeting, as far as the nation of Saudi Arabia is concerned, the King is not a figure head, he is the main person, and the official greeting is to bow, which equals getting on your knees and really bowing very low. Obama's greeting was as I see it a very miner bow and a handshake. My 2 cents worth. May we should just agree to disagree. pk pk I don't think bowing by another head of state is the official greeting. I know lying about something that most see as trivial has ceased to be trivial. If this is customary behavior why lie. If you are an honest man are you going to lie about trivial matters. If so how far can you be trusted with major matters Especially when you hae already demonstrated your willingness to lie about US citizens who have not broken the law Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote: And as I can see it says nothing about bowing \ It also says nothing about selling state secrets for personal gain, just as your marriage vow says nothing about going to strip clubs. If an oath or a vow must specify, in exact language, every behavior which is required or prohibited, it would be impossibly long. And, life being what it is, it is impossible to anticipate every such action. The objection is specious. Quote: I see nothing wrong, if indeed he was bowing. What 'you see' is irrelevant. In diplomatic relations, certain actions have certain meanings, whether you see them that way or not. Recalling an ambassador for consultation, for example, might seem like a natural thing to do. But in diplomacy, it indicates a severe problem in the relations between the two countries. It's not far short of ending diplomatic relations, which puts countries on a war footing. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I've seen the video many times, and I've mentioned that if you or anyone else thinks that he is bowing that's fine with me. I see nothing wrong, if indeed he was bowing. And when I said you mentioned the constitution, obviously I meant the oath of office. And as I can see it says nothing about bowing. And to me bowing doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is ceding to anyone else. The way I see the Queen of England, she is just a figure head and shaking of hands is the appropriate form of greeting, as far as the nation of Saudi Arabia is concerned, the King is not a figure head, he is the main person, and the official greeting is to bow, which equals getting on your knees and really bowing very low. Obama's greeting was as I see it a very miner bow and a handshake. My 2 cents worth. May we should just agree to disagree. pk pk Hey pk ... are you saying that respect is due to a King but not a Queen? Do I sense a little sexism? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 13, 2009 Administrators Share Posted April 13, 2009 Can we all say "tempest in a teapot"? Or maybe , "grasping at straws"? As for the ludicrous spin of "faithfully executing the office", check the official US State Department website and look under official protocol. There really are no hard and fast rules here. At worst it was an awkward moment, a faux pas. I think the sarcasm of the press secretary's off the cuff response to an absurdly silly question kind of puts in the proper perspective. I would hardly call that a lie... Of course, if you really want to seriously discuss Presidential lying, shall we just consider the frequently repeated Bush administration denial of torture, including from his very own mouth. There you have a lie with some profoundly serious implications. Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Can we all say "tempest in a teapot"? Or maybe , "grasping at straws"? As for the ludicrous spin of "faithfully executing the office", check the official US State Department website and look under official protocol. There really are no hard and fast rules here. At worst it was an awkward moment, a faux pas. I think the sarcasm of the press secretary's off the cuff response to an absurdly silly question kind of puts in the proper perspective. I would hardly call that a lie... Of course, if you really want to seriously discuss Presidential lying, shall we just consider the frequently repeated Bush administration denial of torture, including from his very own mouth. There you have a lie with some profoundly serious implications. Tom Haven't you heard,all lies have serious implications? Obama bowing before another head of state has what to do with Bush? Could that be the fault of Bush? Betcha it is and we did not see that right away Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Strange how people wanted change and now all they can do is to refer to Bush as an excuse for Obama. I had to bow to the King because Bush used to be President. How silly. Let me see ... Saudis were the main group of 9-11 attackers ... and Bush went after the terrorists .... so Obama has to bow to the King. Wow Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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