Is Piracy a Form of Terrorism????

[Key Guy]

Quote:

Therefore what they are doing is not terrorism. It's really pretty simple.

Sorta like highway robbery

Shoot 'em

[Bravus]

Fear of 'looking weak' is a sign of insecurity and the source of bullying.

Which is more important, to be strong or to look strong? And if you are genuinely strong, you don't heave to beat on the smaller kids at every opportunity to make yourself look strong.

[Gerr]

And 'because justice is expensive' is no justification for murdering someone in cold blood without a trial.

Is there any doubt about their guilt?

[bonnie]

Fear of 'looking weak' is a sign of insecurity and the source of bullying.

Which is more important, to be strong or to look strong? And if you are genuinely strong, you don't heave to beat on the smaller kids at every opportunity to make yourself look strong.

So if these pirates are killed it will be taking every opportunity to beat up on the smaller kids?? The US now may look like they are bullying the poor pirates??Unbelievable.

The french must not share your viewpoint on bullying. They stormed the ship with their citizens. Sadly as sometimes happen one of the hostages was killed along with several of the pirates. It isn't that the life of the one was expendable,but if steps aren't taken how many will lose their lives.

Wonder if you might want to guess if these thugs are not stopped which ship they will zero in on the next time? If it is the french or US they would go for the path of least resistance.

There is a reason why negotiating with terrorists is not considered a good idea.

It is a bottomless pit,never enough and never safe from people that are worse than animals.

The president could at least acknowledge that there is a american citizen at a great deal of risk instead of "keeping apprised of the situation".

Hilary Clinton refers to them as common criminals. She has a strange idea of what is common.

260 hostages,millions have been paid in ransom. If reports are true they give part of the ransom to Al-Quaida

Somehow that does not sound real common. But do not fear we are waiting for the international community.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

And 'because justice is expensive' is no justification for murdering someone in cold blood without a trial.

Is there any doubt about their guilt?

Depends on what is meant by cold blood. French went in and killed several pirates. Most would not see this as cold blood

[Gerr]

Hate to disagree with you Bravus, but here's Merriam-Webster's definition of terrorism: "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."

"Terrorize - 1. to fill with terror or anxiety: SCARE 2. To coerce by threat or violence."

Nothing said about the object being to effect a change in policy. It is quite possible that countries under British influence may have a different meaning, however, as Stan pointed out to me about the spelling of "potato".

[Key Guy]

Quote:

And if you are genuinely strong, you don't heave to beat on the smaller kids at every opportunity to make yourself look strong.

"every opportunity" Give me a break. So we Americans (and those Americans on the forum) react to this act of piracy and kidnapping because it involves an American. Now we are looking to beat on the smaller kids (idiot criminal pirates) at every opportunity.

Please tell me that all the rest of Australia doesn't agree with your logic. If so, I pity any Aussie that receives aggression by another... he'll have no one in his country to save him!

BTW... remember Entebbe? Those 'bullies' saved a lot of lives by attacking that plane with the 'kid' terrorists on board.

I cheered

[Dr. Shane]

Pirates defy U.S. navy off Somalia, French free yacht

Quote:

In a day of drama on the high seas off East Africa, French special forces stormed and freed a yacht held by pirates in a military assault in which one hostage was killed and four others were freed.

If Obama was waiting to see how the world wants him to respond, maybe he should take the lead of the French.

This from the same article:

Quote:

U.S. Somalia expert Ken Menkhaus said the best outcome would be for the German ship to be allowed to pick up Phillips and his captors and take them to shore, and for a ransom to be paid for the American.

This guy has to quit smoking crack. He thinks the "best outcome" would be to let the pirates get away (so we can all do this again next month) AND pay them a ransom. Good grief. Why don't we open some how-to-be-a-pirate school for them too so they don't get overpowered by those pesky civilian crews again?

[bonnie]

Quote:

And if you are genuinely strong, you don't heave to beat on the smaller kids at every opportunity to make yourself look strong.

"every opportunity" Give me a break. So we Americans (and those Americans on the forum) react to this act of piracy and kidnapping because it involves an American. Now we are looking to beat on the smaller kids (idiot criminal pirates) at every opportunity.

Please tell me that all the rest of Australia doesn't agree with your logic. If so, I pity any Aussie that receives aggression by another... he'll have no one in his country to save him!

BTW... remember Entebbe? Those 'bullies' saved a lot of lives by attacking that plane with the 'kid' terrorists on board.

I cheered

I take "every opportunity" as any action the americans take will be an act of bullying the pirates.

I am sure that just as those that caused 9/11,the only reason the pirates are doing this is they don't like our lifestyle or something.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see those that believe the americans will bully these poor lovable rascals take the captains place. Sit down and have a reasonable conversation and assure them we understand their concerns and their need for money.

[phkrause]

The Israelis had no problem dealing with that situation. And I'll add this, if Iran was anywhere close to having a nuclear weapon, Israel would have sent war planes and taken it out. I think they have been monitoring the situation there!

pk

[Bravus]

Gerry: the foundation of the rule of law is the presumption of innocence. What if one of the people on the pirate boat was a private fishing boat captain, going about his business, and was captured at gunpoint by the pirates and forced to take them where they wanted to go. Does he deserve the death penalty for his bad luck?

All of you claim I'm misrepresenting your viewpoint, yet you're taking every opportunity to misrepresent mine. I am *not* saying 'give them a million dollars and let them walk away'. I am saying capture them and try them in a court of law.

*That* is the very freedom the US represents, the very freedom bonnie seems so scared is being eroded, yet the very freedom you are so very willing to throw away. The laws that protect them, protect you.

[bonnie]

Quote:

the foundation of the rule of law is the presumption of innocence. What if one of the people on the pirate boat was a private fishing boat captain, going about his business, and was captured at gunpoint by the pirates and forced to take them where they wanted to go. Does he deserve the death penalty for his bad luck?

Highly unlikely. That would have been reported before now. You can presume innocent till proven guilty but most would consider their holding hostages a bit of a clue.To say nothing of the ransom demand.

Quote:

All of you claim I'm misrepresenting your viewpoint, yet you're taking every opportunity to misrepresent mine. I am *not* saying 'give them a million dollars and let them walk away'. I am saying capture them and try them in a court of law.

You made reference to bullying didn't you? Maybe capturing them and trying them in court is a bit of a problem you think??

I would hope if the solution were that simple they would have been captured before now.

Quote:

*That* is the very freedom the US represents, the very freedom bonnie seems so scared is being eroded, yet the very freedom you are so very willing to throw away. The laws that protect them, protect you.

Not quite. The US does not represent freedom to thugs and those willing to murder if they don't get their own way. They have forfeited that right. There are no laws that protect kidnappers and thugs if they do not willingly give themselves up.

No,wrong again. Bonnie is not afraid of the loss of our freedoms,Bonnie knows it is coming.

Your view of bible prophecy may not be the same as mine or you may not believe in it at all. That is your choice. I KNOW WE WILL LOSE OUR FREEDOMS. No guess work about it. The who will be responsible and when is unknown but I do believe biblically we were given certain guideposts.

I also believe we are passing some of these guideposts now.

[bonnie]

I remember reading here dealing with concerns about Bush,the wiretapping and possibly being the power to bring the time of the end upon us.

Wonder about the silence concerning what Joe Knapp posted? Had this been Bush on top of the wiretaping every one would have been looking upward.

Obama likes the wiretapping idea now and seems really in favor of what Joe Knapp posted. Nah,that couldn't be could it.

[Bravus]

My vow precludes me commenting.

[bonnie]

My vow precludes me commenting.

Actually you did comment,Thanks

Obama has promised transparency in his admin. Perhaps you could give him lessons

[Dr. Shane]

I am *not* saying 'give them a million dollars and let them walk away'. I am saying capture them and try them in a court of law.

I certainly can support this outcome. However... I don't know how we get there without someone dying. These pirates have asked their fellow pirates to pray for them. PRAY for them? Are they repenting of their pirating sin? Do they seek forgiveness? Ransoms paid to pirates in the past has found its way into the coffers of terrorists. Is there a link between Islamic pirates and Islamic terrorists? Could these pirates not be simply criminals but rather part of a jihad? If that is the case they are hardly repenting of their sins. If they feel their pirating is justified in the eyes of allah, how do we expect to capture them and free the hostage without any bloodshed?

[Dr. Shane]

The news today:

U.S. warships track hostage-holding pirates

Quote:

The foreign minister of Somalia's fledgling government said the piracy could only be stopped with stability and security onshore, not by foreign navies patrolling the sea.

"We can certainly resolve (piracy) in partnership with the international community. Our first priority is to re-establish the rule of law. For that, we have requested from the foreign community assistance to build our security forces," Foreign Minister Mohamed Abdullahi Omaar told Reuters.

From what I understand, Somalia's present government is the Transitional Federal Government (TFG). As its name implies, it is transitional. Somalia needs international help to stabilize their government. Building their security forces could really be the answer to this problem and provide stability for the region while fighting terrorism at the same time.

[Key Guy]

Quote:

If they feel their pirating is justified in the eyes of allah, how do we expect to capture them and free the hostage without any bloodshed?

This is one of the problems of Christianity... We are scared to death of bloodshed. I think King David would laugh us to scorn if he saw the wimpy way we treat our enemies.

When will we learn that there are people like Muslim extremists that live to see 'infidels' die. They do not understand the Christian way of reasoning, they do not understand anything less than superior firepower. They will seek to kill at every opportunity.

The Israelis get this. They know of the threat they are under every day... every day! They show no mercy, nor should they. The Israelis are under pressure from the rest of the world to lighten up. I hope they never do.

The situation that we still don't get is we kill or be killed. It's that simple. There is no rehab. We have seen the stupidity of Gitmo. We have seen the stupidity of allowing Pakistan to harbor these animals. We have seen the stupidity of bowing to our enemies.

Nothing else works but the flat-out show of force and the willingness to use it. It won't change minds. It will keep them under control. It's that or enjoy what Spain and France fear.

[Gerr]

Gerry: the foundation of the rule of law is the presumption of innocence. What if one of the people on the pirate boat was a private fishing boat captain, going about his business, and was captured at gunpoint by the pirates and forced to take them where they wanted to go. Does he deserve the death penalty for his bad luck?

Rather extremely remote possibility. I've been labeled a legalist, so I must be a stickler to law. Their acts speak for themselves. Is there any doubt about guilt or innocence if you are found in bed having sex with someone's spouse?

Quote:

All of you claim I'm misrepresenting your viewpoint, yet you're taking every opportunity to misrepresent mine. I am *not* saying 'give them a million dollars and let them walk away'. I am saying capture them and try them in a court of law.

I'm not sure how I have misrepresented your view.

Quote:

*That* is the very freedom the US represents, the very freedom bonnie seems so scared is being eroded, yet the very freedom you are so very willing to throw away. The laws that protect them, protect you.

Tried in which country? Whose court? The pirates have become so brazen in their piracy that at this point, I think there's only one deterrent against them. When a cancer has become too dangerous, amputation or radical surgery may become necessary.

[bonnie]

Quote:

If they feel their pirating is justified in the eyes of allah, how do we expect to capture them and free the hostage without any bloodshed?

This is one of the problems of Christianity... We are scared to death of bloodshed. I think King David would laugh us to scorn if he saw the wimpy way we treat our enemies.

When will we learn that there are people like Muslim extremists that live to see 'infidels' die. They do not understand the Christian way of reasoning, they do not understand anything less than superior firepower. They will seek to kill at every opportunity.

The Israelis get this. They know of the threat they are under every day... every day! They show no mercy, nor should they. The Israelis are under pressure from the rest of the world to lighten up. I hope they never do.

The situation that we still don't get is we kill or be killed. It's that simple. There is no rehab. We have seen the stupidity of Gitmo. We have seen the stupidity of allowing Pakistan to harbor these animals. We have seen the stupidity of bowing to our enemies.

Nothing else works but the flat-out show of force and the willingness to use it. It won't change minds. It will keep them under control. It's that or enjoy what Spain and France fear.

Obama has spent the last week apologizing,far more than he expressed graditude or appreciation for the country he is now supposedly leading.

As president he has no comment. Great,no matter the outcome,if the pirates are killed and the captain dies in this it won't be Obama's fault.

Maybe they should go and talk to these people at their core.

maybe Obama can apologize again for the country he leads

He has stated he will be cutting defense and getting rid of nukes while at the same time Korea is spitting in the face of this fearsome international community.

A delegation of senators/congress members goes to Castro. A murdering,vicious thug and is praised because "he actually looked into our eyes"

He wants to know how he can help our president. We have been so wrong,citizens from Cuba ive better than some americans.

What a bunch of hog wash. What a slap in the face to the thousands that have made the desperate trip to Florida in little more than an inner tube at times.

Why didn't those silly people stay where "this man actually looks his people in the eye" where this benevolant little dictator provised for his people.

To bad those spewing such hogwash and make their living off the ungrateful taxpayer don't have to walk in their shoes. Give them a year where they actually need to work,receive the barest pittance,being grateful.

It is obvious the appreciation those that have had family members die trying to escape this paradise know what a wonderful warm human being Castro is.

[Gerr]

I wouldn't use the Israelis for an example. They continue to take over Palestinian lands while painting themselves as victims.

[Key Guy]

Oh yeah... just look at all that precious land the Israelis have taken. They took much more during their 2 (quick) wars that the Arabs lost, then gave some back. They need to wipe up the whole middle east and send the leftovers packing, perhaps to.... nah, I can't think of a place that I dislike that much.

As for Cuba, most of the Cubans here in south Florida have NO love for Castro. They KNOW what kind of thug he is. They have scars and dead relatives to prove it.

[bonnie]

Oh yeah... just look at all that precious land the Israelis have taken. They took much more during their 2 (quick) wars that the Arabs lost, then gave some back. They need to wipe up the whole middle east and send the leftovers packing, perhaps to.... nah, I can't think of a place that I dislike that much.

As for Cuba, most of the Cubans here in south Florida have NO love for Castro. They KNOW what kind of thug he is. They have scars and dead relatives to prove it.

Don't sell Castro short. He actually looked into their eyes and he wants to know how he can help Obama

[melvin mccarty]

I am old enough to remember the pre-Castro Cuba and the dictator they had then who was supported by the American government. He was supported because he was good for American business. Cuban people did mot count. ....mel

[bonnie]

I am old enough to remember the pre-Castro Cuba and the dictator they had then who was supported by the American government. He was supported because he was good for American business. Cuban people did mot count. ....mel

Yes, I know the history as well. The solution as I see it is never to have made mistakes,wrong acts deliberate or otherwise,acts that were seen as good for the US.

The simmering hatred for the US by so many,and hatred it is,is based on the imperfect actions of the US. I have yet to see a favorable account from those that seem to inhabit the left. It is "well you did","remember what they did", etc.

It is quite interesting to never find one imperfect act of any other country.If this is so I wish many would leave our shores and go elsewhere. It is a bit tiresome to have to feed,house,and grant medical care and education to those from the perfect countries they have left.

Cuba,because the US backed the previous dictator,shut up and now let us praise Castro.

Wonder how the many that have suffered so much to get here felt about the ridiculous comment "he even looked into our eyes"

What a kick in the teeth.

You and others may finally get your wish. A country paralyzed by the actions of people long dead.

Kind of like the spouse that never let's the other spouse free of a sin committed. The injured spouse hanging on and never letting go. Never acknowledging a good or decent act from the "guilty spouse"