Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 What do you think of Obama and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez shaking hands and patting each other on the back. You would think these guys were good buddies. I hope this is a good sign. Just a short while ago ... Chavez called Obama and 'ignoramus'. That would have gotten a reaction on this forum. But to their credit ... they seem comfortable with each other now. Let's pray there are good results with these two getting together. Some here have some special reasons for relations to go well between our two countries. Chavez has declared that there is a war between our two countries. So, lets hope that Obama can do something about that. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 I don't either Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I don't trust Chavez but if the USA and Venezuela can be friends despite our differences that would be a good thing. There are many wonderful people in Venezuela. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why don't you trust Chavez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 He is clamping down on religious freedom from what I understand. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I don't trust someone who takes away private businesses etc which are no threat to the government (and no they have nothing to do with the oil industry either.) He has a done a lot of good in Venezuela, true, but he has also done things that are way too controlling for this freedom loving American. (I have been to Venezuela more than once recently and have very good friends there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 He also controlls the prices of things, inport and export and as a result...the prices for certain items are MUCH higher than they were two years ago through artificial inflation on those items, as they are grown or produced locally. Also it is becoming increasingly difficult for businesses to import items which are not available in the country but which they need for their businesses. If it can't be purchased locally, then why not allow import of the product with some type of ease? It is also very very difficult to get anything shipped into the country, even a personal gift sent to someone without extreme taxes and long waits through endless red tape (and I am talking about something minor like a CD, a book, a magazine, a t-shirt, not anything that is in bulk to be sold...just a personal present.) It just smacks of corruption and controll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Yes Taylor. I've heard the same. He seems to be a loose cannon wanting to control the country for the rest of his life. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 He is clamping down on religious freedom from what I understand. So far, at least as of a few months ago...that was not the case, at least not for our church. However, things are definately moving that direction. I have been told there there is a "bill in congress" (for a lack of a better way to put it) in Venezuela which would put all churche's books through the government for review. They would have the say in who is hired, fired, and whether funds can be used for specific reasons. Now he says it is because there is corruption in the main church there, which there may be but anytime governmet wants to controll church finances, regardless of the denomination, I see a red flag. But currently, we can advertise for evangelistic meetings, yes there are permits one has to obtain but usually those are obtained without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Thanks. That is good to know. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 From what I understand, The Catholic church opposes Chavez. Since the majority of people in Venezuela are Catholic, Chavez wants to be able to control the church since it is his biggest opposition. He is a thug but it looks like it will be very difficult for the people of Venezuela to get rid of him. I think improving US-Venezuela relations is a good thing. It takes time but economic trade can create change that boycotts do not. If the rest of the world doesn't agree to boycotts they do little good. If, on the other hand. the US becomes the largest consumer of Venezuelan products, it gives us a lot of power and influence over them. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Agreed Shane! And yes, your assessment of the situation with the catholic church there is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 From what I understand, The Catholic church opposes Chavez. Since the majority of people in Venezuela are Catholic, Chavez wants to be able to control the church since it is his biggest opposition. He is a thug but it looks like it will be very difficult for the people of Venezuela to get rid of him. I think improving US-Venezuela relations is a good thing. It takes time but economic trade can create change that boycotts do not. If the rest of the world doesn't agree to boycotts they do little good. If, on the other hand. the US becomes the largest consumer of Venezuelan products, it gives us a lot of power and influence over them. Yes. Interesting. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 He also controlls the prices of things, inport and export and as a result...the prices for certain items are MUCH higher than they were two years ago through artificial inflation on those items, as they are grown or produced locally. Also it is becoming increasingly difficult for businesses to import items which are not available in the country but which they need for their businesses. If it can't be purchased locally, then why not allow import of the product with some type of ease? It is also very very difficult to get anything shipped into the country, even a personal gift sent to someone without extreme taxes and long waits through endless red tape (and I am talking about something minor like a CD, a book, a magazine, a t-shirt, not anything that is in bulk to be sold...just a personal present.) It just smacks of corruption and controll. It would be very interesting to look into the reasons for why he is doing these things. I suspect he has looked around at other countries (such as Haiti) that have taken advantage of our "trade agreements" and decided that wouldn't be best in the long run for the people of his country. Yes, it may mean cheaper food in the short run, but it means food, period, in the long run. His people who are criticizing him now may one day be thanking him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 HEY ALL IT IS interesting that Chavez wants to take over the catholic church I AM WONDERING what the pope thinks about this or if he will do any thing about it????? dgrimm60 Yes, that will definitely be something to watch. I wonder if he looks at Christianity as being yet another western thing that was forced on their people and needs to go. I can see how he would feel threatened by the Catholic Church, with it being so big there. I don't think the pope needs to do much directly - all he needs to do is send his minions to spread propoganda among their members, and then the members will have the difficult choice of supporting the state or supporting the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 How can it be politically advantageous to take on the Catholic Church? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: Taylor He also controlls the prices of things, inport and export and as a result...the prices for certain items are MUCH higher than they were two years ago through artificial inflation on those items, as they are grown or produced locally. Also it is becoming increasingly difficult for businesses to import items which are not available in the country but which they need for their businesses. If it can't be purchased locally, then why not allow import of the product with some type of ease? It is also very very difficult to get anything shipped into the country, even a personal gift sent to someone without extreme taxes and long waits through endless red tape (and I am talking about something minor like a CD, a book, a magazine, a t-shirt, not anything that is in bulk to be sold...just a personal present.) It just smacks of corruption and controll. It would be very interesting to look into the reasons for why he is doing these things. I suspect he has looked around at other countries (such as Haiti) that have taken advantage of our "trade agreements" and decided that wouldn't be best in the long run for the people of his country. Yes, it may mean cheaper food in the short run, but it means food, period, in the long run. His people who are criticizing him now may one day be thanking him. Trust me, it doesn't mean cheaper food...the prices have gone up astronomically in the last few years. Furthermore food shortages were unknown there before he took office. Oh sure there were always poor people but there was food of all types to buy.Now there are entire regions where milk can't be purchased except for infants. That's craziness with all the natural resources that exist in that country, farms, and room for growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 How can it be politically advantageous to take on the Catholic Church? He points to them as being corrupt and he as being "free of corruption" and their "savior" from that "corruption". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa It would be very interesting to look into the reasons for why he is doing these things. I suspect he has looked around at other countries (such as Haiti) that have taken advantage of our "trade agreements" and decided that wouldn't be best in the long run for the people of his country. Yes, it may mean cheaper food in the short run, but it means food, period, in the long run. His people who are criticizing him now may one day be thanking him. [/quote'] Trust me, it doesn't mean cheaper food...the prices have gone up astronomically in the last few years. You're right. I misspoke. It may mean more expensive food in the short term.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 How can it be politically advantageous to take on the Catholic Church? I'm not saying it is politically advantageous at all. But he's taking on the U.S., so why not the Catholic Church, especially if he sees it as a thing of the western culture that he distrusts? It will be very interesting to see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 But it doesn't have to...you see the prices that have gone up astronomically are those things that are produced in country, and an artificial shortage has been created. (The things which used to be imported are simply almost unavailable. Sure there is imported food items but nothing like before.). They have a lot of room, great area to grow things, farm land etc and they have it, but he has jacked up the local prices of things astronomically, but at least it isn't as bad as Nicaragua yet. Some of the most expensive things are things which are grown in abundance and available from local area farmers....but he has set the price. You can't even get lemons a lot of the time and there are farms full of lemon and citrus trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Is he trying to use the available farm land that is there to produce more crops? Are the farmers not being allowed to sell their goods, or is it that the people cannot afford the goods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 They aren't allowed to sell it at the price they want to sell it at. The prices are set by the government. There is a little wiggle room of course such as "You can sell lemons between $1.00 and $1.50 a lb" but before you could get them for .20 cents a lb. Venezuela isn't a 3rd world country...it is more like a second world. Sure there is some depressing poverty but it isn't like Haiti or Bangladesh. There are a lot of educated people, beautiful malls, universities and a large middle class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 It becomes "not worth it" after a while for farmers to grow such crops becuase very few people are going to pay that much for lemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I know of one small store that used to make a lot of money selling oats and how they are only allowed a small shipment of oats a month to sell. Bakeries at times have a very hard time getting flour as there are "limits" on what they can buy, but it is available. It isn't like people are starving but it is a pain to have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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