Cheney: Terrorist Interrigation Worked

[Dr. Shane]

Drudge Report: Cheney Calls For More CIA Reports To Be Declassified

former Vice President Dick Cheney shared his thoughts on the CIA memos that were recently declassified and also revealed his request to the CIA to declassify additional memos that confirm the success of the Bush administration’s interrogation tactics:

CHENEY:

“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.”

“I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven't announced this up until now, I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”

“And I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”

[text from link]

[Bravus]

Whoa - I agree with Cheney! {/head asplode}

[Planey]

{/head asplode}

Steady on, Bravus!

I had to go and get one of those "licking puppy" screen-cleaners for my computer - not to mention the keyboard and desk surrounds.

Graeme

[Neil D]

Whoa - I agree with Cheney! {/head asplode}

But what will you see?

Ok, CIA declassifies 2-3 sucessful results that showed a moderate sucesses.....Question: How many others were torture where there was NOT sucessful results?

Another Question: How do we classify "sucessful torture"? I remember many years ago, even while growing up, reading all those storys of Americans sucessfully resisting torture, with bloodied faces, thru eclectrical shocks, and trueth serum...and thinking to myself, I could never do that...I'd sing like a canary...Then one day, I read a fictious book, in which the main Character reasoned out, if you get caught by the opposition, the opposition is gonna get it out of you anyways, so why go thru all that needless pain...sing...and your compatriots will change the codes/locations/secret drops and any other needfull things necessary for the Agency....Made sense to me..

'nuther Question: How many sucessful results were there without the use of torture?

[bonnie]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Obama finds a way to go after somebody for "torture"

There is more to their reason for doing this.

[carolaa]

Hope you're right.

[carolaa]

I can't believe anyone could take Cheney seriously. He's desperately trying to protect his behind.

[bonnie]

I can't believe anyone could take Cheney seriously. He's desperately trying to protect his behind.

You mean Cheney shouldn't be taken seriously in releasing more??

That doesn't even make sense.

[bonnie]

Hope you're right.

Interesting that he can now back water from what he said originally.

Nothing like telling any that are involved in terrorism that the US CIA or another org are powerless to do anything except ask them nicely. "Please tell us what we want to know"

There is nothing to fear. So what if they have to wait out the interrogation .3 nice meals a day,religious freedom within their confinement,exercise and all the rest.

CIA and all others in that position have now been told that anything but politely questioning the thugs can end up having them prosecuted

But the most interesting is another flip flop for the president .

After he has gone around the world apologizing for america for just about everything, it is not surprising that he will now take after another group.

Wonder which side he will take the next time we are attacked. I don't think that is if attacked,it is when

[carolaa]

A flip flop for Cheney, too. He's always said everything should remain classified.

[Liz]

I guess it would depend on what secrets you are hiding. If for instance it was locations of bases or codes, that you said would probably be changed anyways, then I would probably sing too. However, if it were specific locations of people, or things about people that would inevitably hurt them; I guess "things" not so easily changed, then I would hope I would have the stamina not to sing.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Whoa - I agree with Cheney! {/head asplode}

But what will you see?

Cheney knows exactly what we will see and he is not at liberty to say. Perhaps an attack on a major sporting event like the Super Bowl or the Olympics was prevented. If Cheney wants the information to be released he obviously believes the information will go a long way in turning public opinion in his direction.

[Bravus]

The thing, of course, is that 'singing' will not save you from torture anyway, because (a) they will want to check what you say under duress and ( the goal of torture is not information gathering, it is instilling terror in a population. Read bonnie's post above where she explicitly makes this point that it is about giving people something to fear.

When I said I agree with Cheney that more should be released, I meant all of it, not a few cherry-picked 'successes'. I firmly believe that if everything was released (a) most Americans (apart from the 'torture cheerleaders') would be ashamed at what was done in their name and ( Cheney's claim of success *from harsh treatment* would be shown to be false, and good results would be shown to come from good interrogatory technique - prolonged contact and forming relationships.

[Liz]

I get that, I was just saying what *I* would do, or hope to do, actually I hope never to be put in that situation.

O.k. so let me ask you this. If we know that what a prisoner tells us is either outdated information or will be by the time he tells us, or possibly even completely bogus. Then what should we do with the prisoners? Just hold them prisoner indefinately, let them go so that they can possibly reattack or what? Or should we not be taking people as prisoners? But then how do you defend your country?

I know lots of questions, but I am very curious.

[Bravus]

My personal opinion is that they should either (a) be considered criminals and tried as such, serve their sentences and be released or ( be considered Prisoners of War, held according to the Geneva Convention until the end of the war, then released. Guantanamo Bay was all about being able to do neither of those things. And the claim was that this was a 'forever war', which makes option ( impractical. So, they should be tried and sentenced, serve out their sentences and be released.

[Bravus]

Um, sorry, and when I said 'more should be released' above (three posts above), I didn't mean more prisoners, I meant more information. Apologies if that was unclear.

[Liz]

Thanks Bravus, and I knew what you were talking about.

[bonnie]

The thing, of course, is that 'singing' will not save you from torture anyway, because (a) they will want to check what you say under duress and ( the goal of torture is not information gathering, it is instilling terror in a population. Read bonnie's post above where she explicitly makes this point that it is about giving people something to fear.

When I said I agree with Cheney that more should be released, I meant all of it, not a few cherry-picked 'successes'. I firmly believe that if everything was released (a) most Americans (apart from the 'torture cheerleaders') would be ashamed at what was done in their name and ( Cheney's claim of success *from harsh treatment* would be shown to be false, and good results would be shown to come from good interrogatory technique - prolonged contact and forming relationships.

It has been made patently clear that terrorists and pirates have nothing to fear. A little healthy fear does wonders for self preservation. They now know that any charges against our operatives will bring this administration down on the US operatives,not the terrorists.

When we lost our home in the tornado we were surprised to see the two legged scavengers out within an hour.

Our governor at the time sent scores of National Guard. The order to shoot on sight any looter gave them a healthy dose of fear and took away any enthusiasm for looting. It explicitly made the point to them that they would have something to fear.

While I would not want to see someone shot for looting,had they been it would have been their doing that pulled the trigger.

This pirate will do fine. He was in tears over in part a fear he would not be able to practise his religion. Wonder if that was a concern for the captain of the ship.

By the time the ACLU is finished with this,Obama will be apologizing for his lapse in judgement and allowing the navy seals to do their job

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

the goal of torture is not information gathering, it is instilling terror in a population.

If this were true there would be no attempt to hide any details. Of course, the real terrorists take video and send it to TV networks to broadcast.

[Dr. Shane]

I have no problem categorizing terrorists as criminal and trying them in a military court. Of course I think the death penalty should be on the table for some offenses. And the minimum sentence for any terrorist activity should be 20 years. By that time any connections they had before would probably no longer be relevant.

[Planey]

the goal of torture is not information gathering, it is instilling terror in a population.

[there buster]

Quote:

the real terrorists take video and send it to TV networks to broadcast.

I believe Shane's quote is an excellent example to illustrate Bravus' point.

IF so, the US never engaged in terrorism, since we didn't send video to the TV networks to broad cast.

[carolaa]

Terrorism, maybe not. Torture, yes.

[phkrause]

The US military has never engaged in terrorism, but torture, definitely.

pk

[carolaa]

There's an echo in here....