Members phkrause Posted May 16, 2009 Members Share Posted May 16, 2009 I'm not sure I agree, but I would like to see Powell write about that time in his life and see what he has to say about it. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Yes, I've been wanting that for a while. Maybe someday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 16, 2009 Members Share Posted May 16, 2009 That would be nice, I have a lot of respect for Powell. I wish that Bush had taken more advice from Powell than some of the others, especially Rumsfeld. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Powell should have had Rumsfield's job in my opinion. We would have had twice as many boots on the ground when we went into Iraq if that had been the case. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I think Powell knew that their intel sources were unreliable and the administration was just using them to make a case for war. Why would his political opponents back the administration knowing that Bush was just using them? All those that ended up trying to nail Bush on this one had the same concerns. How would a private citizen know this enough to make accusations like this as many have? While all with the information was ignorant of what Bush was doing. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think Powell's speech to the UN was a performance which was exactly the way his military training required of him: he said and did what his commanding officer had told him to do. I think he was extremely torn up inside while doing that speech, but he was being a good soldier all the way. Is that the definition of a "good soldier"? I think that is a better definition of a politician. There is a time to follow orders and a time to stand for the right. We applaud the Viet Nam vets for standing up against orders to burn villages to the ground and shoot civilians, yet we want to praise Powell for going against his conscience (if that is what he did) to follow orders? That doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 What loss of freedoms are you talking about? Loss of freedoms do not necessarily start with your personal freedom of religion and family. Have you noticed what our president is doing with the auto industry. He turned bankruptcy law on it's head. Use considerable clout to force the creditors to take a bath. They should have been first. They weren't even last. The union now owns over half,the very union that negotiates with employees of this company. neat trick if you can do it. Fiat and the government pretty much take up the rest. This is not private enterprise anymore. The anger and contempt have been fueled by this administration that so much that would have caused a rebellion before is now cheered. But you know how so many are gleeful when the rich get it don't you? No sweat,they should have known better. It will never impact the little guy. Again they are planning to intrude where they have no business in a free market economy. It is on the table to expand the powers of the federal reserve and the SEC to set pay limits for executives of banks that have not taken or needed this great stimulus money. The stimulus money meant for infrastructure etc will go only to union companies. What right does the administration have to exclude bids from non-union? Abortion,if it has gone thru the right to refuse to perform certain procedures because of conscience or moral and religious grounds are no longer allowed. Regardless where anyone stands on abortion a Dr or nurse should have the right to say No,I am not sticking a scissors into the back of this babies skull. Or I am not going to restrict at least comfort care to a baby that had the bad sense to survive a botched abortion. Of course universal health care will be next. THERE IS NO MONEY NOW,where will it come from? You will only bleed the filthy rich so long till they are no longer rich or they will quit. Once we have our revenge on those dreaded individuals who will we tap to pay our next DR visit? You think there will not be rationing,think again. But I suspect many are so wrapped up in hating those they think have caused their problems they won't care. Medicare is going or has gone broke. SS faces same. The government cannot handle anything economically or wisely. It is playing with people's money,not their own. Run short? Let's just take some more. The bank with more is beginning to shut down but no one seems to notice. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa I think Powell knew that their intel sources were unreliable and the administration was just using them to make a case for war. Why would his political opponents back the administration knowing that Bush was just using them? All those that ended up trying to nail Bush on this one had the same concerns. Huh? I haven't a clue what you are talking about here or how to tie it to my comments. How would a private citizen know this enough to make accusations like this as many have? By listening to news other than the mainstream, corporate sponsored variety. While all with the information was ignorant of what Bush was doing. Again, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa I think Powell's speech to the UN was a performance which was exactly the way his military training required of him: he said and did what his commanding officer had told him to do. I think he was extremely torn up inside while doing that speech, but he was being a good soldier all the way. Is that the definition of a "good soldier"? I think that is a better definition of a politician. There is a time to follow orders and a time to stand for the right. We applaud the Viet Nam vets for standing up against orders to burn villages to the ground and shoot civilians, yet we want to praise Powell for going against his conscience (if that is what he did) to follow orders? That doesn't make sense to me. I'm not sure how you managed to make that post into a comment of mine, but that was not my quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I have always believed in the understanding of end time events as most SDA's have.I have tried many times to visualize how this could actually happen. After watching the charade of Obama and friends over AIG,the death threats it spawned and the protesters at private residences it is no longer hard to understand. This was cheered by some of the very people here that will be on the receiving end of that kind of hate and targeting How will it come to be that so many seemingly nice kind people call for the persecution of a few. I don't know that the time is now or in the very near future,but if it isn't what is going on is a pretty good practise run. The jealousies and anger fueled by Obama adminstration is chilling to watch. I have watched many time here when topics are brought up about those that have or thought to have committed crime/crimes. Without fail it has been,"God loves them to" We cannot judge lest we be judged" You don't know the whole story" That changes when it comes to those we think have more than us and we just know they don't deserve it. On another thread a statement was made something to the effect Boo-freaking Boo,are we to feel sorry for them? Imagine that response to "God loves the (fill in the blank)as well. Boo-freaking Boo am I to feel sorry for them? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa What loss of freedoms are you talking about? Loss of freedoms do not necessarily start with your personal freedom of religion and family. Yeah, you're right. Most of the things you listed wouldn't fall under the category of freedoms, in my book. It sounds like you're feeling a lot of anger. Maybe people on the right are beginning to get a little sense of how people on the left have been feeling over the nonsense of the last 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: bonnie Why would his political opponents back the administration knowing that Bush was just using them? All those that ended up trying to nail Bush on this one had the same concerns. Huh? I haven't a clue what you are talking about here or how to tie it to my comments. How would a private citizen know this enough to make accusations like this as many have? By listening to news other than the mainstream' date=' corporate sponsored variety. While all with the information was ignorant of what Bush was doing. Again, huh?[/quote'] Have you ever gone thru the comments by many politicians during the time before the invasion? If not you probably should. It was not Bush being the only one privy to this information. Many,Kerry,Clinton etc said the very same. Where did they ever get such a foolish idea and how was Bush able to fool them all Depends on what news that was not mainstream you are believing. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I have always believed in the understanding of end time events as most SDA's have.I have tried many times to visualize how this could actually happen. I find your views so interesting, because I felt the same way during the last administration as I saw our freedoms being taken away, government spying, secret and not-so-secret prisons being utilized and torture becoming the order of the day, police arresting peaceful demonstrators, etc. It was very easy to see how things could be moving into place for end-time events to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 It was not Bush being the only one privy to this information. Many,Kerry,Clinton etc said the very same. Where did they ever get such a foolish idea and how was Bush able to fool them all Yes, they all heard the same intel, but only a few knew the intel was unreliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Quote: Yeah, you're right. Most of the things you listed wouldn't fall under the category of freedoms, in my book. It sounds like you're feeling a lot of anger. Maybe people on the right are beginning to get a little sense of how people on the left have been feeling over the nonsense of the last 8 years. Where do you think your freedoms come from? Freedom is not only defined as religious in nature. When the bulk of our economy is controlled by the federal government people will realize how much freedom is being eroded daily. Give them the auto industry,your health care,the ability for the government to hire and fire ,the banking industry and there will not be much left. Did you happen to hear Michelle Obama at a college,telling the graduates basically they should not be after the high buck job> Using herself as an example how empty she felt when she did that and how great she felt when she worked for non-profit. Hate to share a simple concept with two of the smartest peopl in the world,but without those "empty for high buck profit job" there would not be someone making possible the non-profit thru donatins No, I am not in the least angry. This gives me a hint where you are at tho...... Maybe people on the right are beginning to get a little sense of how people on the left have been feeling over the nonsense of the last 8 years It isn't a political food fight for me. I just really have a hard time understanding having so much invested in a president and so much complete faith that it doesn't trigger a alarm bell or two. I voted for Bush and with the choices available would probably do so again. However I never looked at him as our saviour and the answer to all my problems. With Obama that is the way many seem. If he were a republican and doing this I would be saying same. I thought Bush lousy on the economy the last couple of years,Obama is disasterous. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Thanks, Bonnie. That all actually makes a lot of sense. And is nothing like what I was imagining. Sorry for being obtuse. Graeme Sometimes I think others take offense at what they see as "false and blind pride" in a country. We are not better,more intelligent or even more christian here. We did have more opportunities Those in other countries,free or not have a different system and have grown up comfortable with that. This country was founded on different principals for different reasons. I understand from what people post that many SDA's do not share the end time events as most of us have grown up believing. That is their business and between them and God. There are those of us that see events in a different light. We became a great nation,warts,mistakes,wrongs and all under the constitution. It was way before it's time and there was not another nation equal because of it. When people have the tools,the freedom to be all they can be,the human race is astounding in what it can accomplish. While we squandered many resources and committed wrongs along the way the constitution still held in check actions that would not have allowed us to become what we did. I believe God had his hand in the founding of this country. I also believe he had his hand over the constitution giving unheard of and many times misunderstood advantages. I also believe God's protection is with us for a time yet What we do with it is up to us. I believe we have a very important but not so wonderful role to play in end time events. Those events cannot take place even in the current climate. We as citizens have to be willing to relinquish our rights,freedoms and opportunities in order for that to happen. We are doing so bit by bit. While it will come or I believe it will no matter what I do,I have a hard time believing that championing the very actions that will take our freedoms is what I should do. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Where do you think your freedoms come from? Freedom is not only defined as religious in nature. When the bulk of our economy is controlled by the federal government people will realize how much freedom is being eroded daily. Give them the auto industry,your health care,the ability for the government to hire and fire ,the banking industry and there will not be much left. You seem to be very preoccupied with economic freedom as opposed to other freedoms. Did you happen to hear Michelle Obama at a college,telling the graduates basically they should not be after the high buck job> Using herself as an example how empty she felt when she did that and how great she felt when she worked for non-profit. Hate to share a simple concept with two of the smartest peopl in the world,but without those "empty for high buck profit job" there would not be someone making possible the non-profit thru donatins Not necessarily true. Many non-profits survive just fine on grassroots donations. I think it's highly commendable for her to encourage grads to not just go to where the money is - how shallow is that? It's far more important for people to do what they love and have a sense of purpose; if money follows, fine, but it shouldn't be the goal. Good for her! What a great role model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: timewarp Is that the definition of a "good soldier"? I think that is a better definition of a politician. There is a time to follow orders and a time to stand for the right. We applaud the Viet Nam vets for standing up against orders to burn villages to the ground and shoot civilians, yet we want to praise Powell for going against his conscience (if that is what he did) to follow orders? That doesn't make sense to me. [/quote'] I'm not sure how you managed to make that post into a comment of mine, but that was not my quote. You are right... I quoted the wrong poster and I am sorry for that. I corrected my post and this one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Quote: You seem to be very preoccupied with economic freedom as opposed to other freedoms. Economic freedoms make the rest possible. When you control that you control pretty much everything else. Without that your other freedoms will erode right behind it. Quote: Not necessarily true. Many non-profits survive just fine on grassroots donations. I think it's highly commendable for her to encourage grads to not just go to where the money is - how shallow is that? It's far more important for people to do what they love and have a sense of purpose; if money follows, fine, but it shouldn't be the goal. Good for her! What a great role model. It is very easy to advocate sacrifice to others when you no longer have to be concerned about finances. Noticed on their tax returns what a very small portion of their "money" went to charity Well they have student loans to pay a living to make and families to raise. Most people do get an education and career possibilities in the area of their interests. No it doesn't always have to be the goal. But the non-profits while needing and I am sure appreciating grassroots donations that is not the economic engine that allows them the funding to do what the organizations are for. That comes from the "despised rich" Even our schools depend heavily on wealthy alumni. Maplewood academy in MN would have gone under years ago if not for those alumni that had made it financially. It was not the five and ten dollar donations that did that. I am sure they appreciated all donations but that was not enough to keep them afloat Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Yes, they all heard the same intel, but only a few knew the intel was unreliable. According to Hillary Clinton, before voting to support the war in Iraq she visited with some people that had been advisers to her husband when he was President. These advisers all assured her that the intel was good and that is why she supported the war. The reason the intel was bad is because Saddam Hussein was misleading the various intelligence agencies of the world. The intel wasn't bad because any American or British politician was cooking the books. It was Saddam that cooked the books. He was openly saying he didn't have WMDs and then he would let it be leaked out that he did. He was bluffing and President Bush and Prime Minister Blair called his bluff. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The reason he let it be leaked out is because he didn't want the other Middle East nations to know he didn't have WMDs. So Bush and Blair called a bluff over nothing, and they probably knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Saddam couldn't lead his neighbors to believe a lie without leading the entire world into believing a lie. President Putin (of Russia) called President Bush personally and told him the Russians had intelligence that Saddam had WMDs and was planning to give them to terrorists to attack the US on American soil. President Putin didn't even support the invasion. Why would he fed bad intel to Bush if he didn't believe it himself? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Since when is Russia our ally? I hope GW wasn't planning war strategy based on Putin's intel. But I agree Saddam was talking out of both sides of his mouth. I just tend to think GW knew better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 The point is that the Russian intelligence was consistent with the intelligence of many other countries. Furthermore, the Russian intelligence wasn't wrong, just outdated. After the invasion we discovered that Saddam was planning to attack the US on US soil using terrorists and WMDs in 1996. What appears to have happened is that Saddam sent out "defectors" who leaked information about his on going WMD programs. That is what misled the intelligence agencies throughout the world. Although he did not have an active WMD program he did have the capacity to make WMD and that is important. The only reason he didn't have WMDs is because he was waiting for sanctions to be lifted before he started making them. So he was a threat, just not an immediate threat. Taking him out was a good thing. The world is a safer place. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted May 26, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted May 26, 2009 The People have spoken: Among Republicans, Powell, Cheney and Limbaugh are equally revered with favorability ratings in the 60s, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll. But among all voters questioned, Powell has a favorability rate of 70 percent compared to 30 percent for Limbaugh. A poll a week ago found that Cheney had a favorability rate of 37 percent. "Colin Powell is not the guy you want to pick a fight with," Schneider said. "He's more popular than Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh combined. Between the two polls, Limbaugh's unfavorable rating among all respondents was 53 percent and Cheney's 55 percent. Powell wins! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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