Letterman steps in it...

[Neil D]

Letterman Sends No Regrets

Should Host Apologize to Palin? Sorry, No Consensus

By Paul Farhi

Washington Post Staff Writer

Saturday, June 13, 2009

Don Imus apologized.

Mel Gibson apologized. So did Michael Richards and the Greaseman (didn't do much good).

Politicians do it all the time. Shock jocks, actors and athletes do. Even Bill O'Reilly has done it.

So why can't David Letterman bring himself to apologize?

In another one of those delicious, you-know-you-love-it-even-as-you-roll-your-eyes media flaps, Letterman has been fending off an aggrieved Sarah Palin after she took offense at several of his late-night cracks.

Palin didn't rise to the bait when Letterman derided the Alaska governor's "slutty flight attendant look" on Monday's show. But she did object when Letterman, satirizing the Palin family's visit to New York and a Yankees game, said: "There was one awkward moment during the seventh inning stretch. Her daughter was knocked up by Alex Rodriguez."

Tasteless? Well, everyone seems to agree about that. Beyond that, you'll get an argument.

After Palin deemed the "knocked up" line "a sexually perverted comment" aimed at the family's 14-year-old daughter, Willow, Letterman issued a clarification of sorts, saying he was referring to 18-year-old Bristol Palin, who is an unwed mother. "I would never, never make jokes about raping or having sex of any description with a 14-year-old girl," he said on the air, but conceded that the line was "an act of desperation."

But that's not exactly an apology, not even the weaselly "If anyone was offended by my remarks, I'm sorry . . ." variety. And it's far short of what Palin says she wants.

"He doesn't have to apologize to me," she told host Matt Lauer on the "Today" show yesterday morning. "I would like to see him apologize to young women across the country for contributing to that kind of . . . that thread that is throughout our culture that makes it sound like it's okay to talk about young girls in that way, where it's kind of okay, accepted and funny to talk to about statutory rape. It's not cool, it's not funny."

For good measure, Palin also got off a blast at the media for their "double standard" in shielding the children of President Obama ("the candidate who must be obeyed") from attention, but not her own.

Letterman's camp gave no indications yesterday that it intended to respond. If he does have any thoughts about issuing a mea culpa on the air, it won't come until next week. The Letterman show that aired last night was taped earlier in the week, CBS said, before the Palin spat erupted.

Letterman Sends No Regrets

Letterman shouldn't apologize, if only to preserve the comedian's prerogative to satirize the powerful and to be offensive on occasion, says Erin Jackson, a rising local stand-up comic. "People read things into jokes that you never meant and never intended," she says. "If [Letterman] got into a cycle of apologizing for a joke or comment, you don't know where it would stop, or how far back you'd have to go to satisfy everyone. I don't think he can be who he is if he started doing that."

Adds Jackson: "When you give it to everyone equally, as Letterman does, as all the late-night people do, you kind of have to take it. It's like demanding an apology from the National Enquirer -- it's better to just get over it."

Maybe so. But Letterman strayed into dangerous territory when he decided to poke fun at a public figure's child. Sen. John McCain learned this lesson in 1998 when he made a crude joke about Chelsea Clinton, then 18. He apologized, both to the president and in the press.

On the other hand, Letterman wasn't talking about race, which has proved to be one of the most dangerous topics for comedy or commentary. Unlike racially charged comments that brought Imus, Gibson, Richards and Doug "Greaseman" Tracht low, Letterman's joke is milder and doesn't rise to a career-threatening level, says Ken Sunshine, a veteran New York public-relations executive. Which means, Sunshine says, that the pressure on Letterman to apologize publicly is low.

In fact, Sunshine says, the Letterman-Palin skirmish has been good for both sides: Letterman gets a booster shot of media-whipped "controversy" at a moment when he could finally be poised to surge past Conan O'Brien and "The Tonight Show" for late-night TV supremacy, while Palin seized an opportunity to appeal to her "base" of conservatives. "Letterman is a master of this, and he's milking it for all it's worth," Sunshine said, citing similar ratings-boosting "feuds" that Letterman has engaged in with McCain and Oprah Winfrey. "But people often underestimate [Palin] and underestimate her following. She's exploiting this very smartly. She's speaking to her core base that feels maligned. She's playing the faux feminist . . . and the family-values representative. It's extraordinary that she can bring this off."

"Poor Mitt Romney," he adds. "He's probably wondering, 'Where do I get some of this?' "

The color and underlined emphasis is mine...

[Tom Wetmore]

I am sure that Letterman would love the Palins to boost his sagging ratings. I doubt they will fall for that trap...

Oh but they already did - big time! Could flap with Palin help Letterman's ratings? It certainly looks like it.

As one commentator suggested, Letterman gained the most out of this whole thing:

Quote:

In the something old category came tasteless jokes by late-night talk hosts as David Letterman cracked wise about Sarah Palin, or really, I guess, her daughter and a baseball star. Was it a tasteless joke? Yep. Did it get 10 times the play it would have had Mommy Palin just let it slide (no baseball pun intended)? Yep. While it was a new "joke" it was old news — a late-night talk show making a bad "joke" and Palin getting her panties in a bunch over unflattering public attention. Gee, she's awful sensitive for a "pit bull with lipstick." While she bared her perfect pearly whites, Letterman gleaned a ratings boost. - http://www.orovillemr.com/ci_12583889?source=rss

And let's face it, the far right, the RNC and especially Sarah Palin, are the ones needing a publicity/ratings boost. As Daniel Lipit of Politico said, "The week-long scuffle between Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and late-night comedian David Letterman has given many on the political right something they've lacked in recent months — a tasty target."

However, this is all more likely to backfire politically as "some Republican strategists question the wisdom of trying to make a political target out of the 62-year-old comedian."

"If the right goes after Letterman they make him look big and themselves small," says Mark McKinnon, a campaign adviser to George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. "It's win-win for Letterman."

Republican media consultant Fred Davis, a chief ad-maker for the McCain campaign, added: "I think it's a mistake too many conservatives are making right now. They are trying to find anything to attack." - Letterman, right's new public enemy?

And that is what you see playing out right here, right now, before your very own eyes...

[Neil D]

I see this thread moving more and more into the political spectrum...and a whole host of backlashes are about to come from this....

I see the uber conservative right wing, making a lot of noise, because the "culture" is offensive to them and they are tired of it. It's morally indecent, on many levels, to publicize a woman who had a child out of wedlock, or to talk of sex, even abusive sex as rape, and slander the reputation of a man, a sports hero, even if his reputation is a bit sullied.

I see that the freedom of speach is under attack by the right again, and that the left is not being responsible in thier speech.

And I can see Stan, getting ulcers, as he moves this to either the place where all dark threads go, or to a political forum ....

...either way, there is gonna be fallout to which all can Complain.....

[Dr. Shane]

It isn't a political issue at all. A high-profile comedian targeted a female politician and her daughter with a sexually charged joke. Sure that is bad taste on his part. But look at the way he did it. He called flight attendants the "S" word. Since the flight attendants were not the target of his joke it shows how he really feels about flight attendants. That is the big story. There is nothing political about that. David Letterman thinks flight attendants are the "S" word!

This is not about conservatives and liberals. The National Organization of Women (NOW) is a very liberal group. They opposed the McCain/Palin ticket. Yet they are calling on Letterman to apologize. Anyone that thinks this is a political issue doesn't get it. They don't grasp the discussion. The issue is the demoralization of women.

[olger]

I am glad that I am not in the position of trying to defend the indefensible in this thread. This thread is about a very inappropriate statement that David Letterman made about a 14-year old girl who attended a ball game with her mother in New York. Our response ought to be "what does the Lord say about such things", not about how can I justify a perverse & froward mouth.

Regards,

og

[Neil D]

Our response ought to be "what does the Lord say about such things", not about how can I justify a perverse froward mouth.

og

I suspect that we know what God says about such things...And since it's is God who makes those rules, I'm a thinking that God needs to enforce them rules...rather than us humans muttering and angwishing and playing God over what is said...

[jasd]

>>Letterman shouldn't apologize, if only to preserve the comedian's prerogative to satirize the powerful and to be offensive on occasion, says Erin Jackson,<<

I’m not perverted, bigoted, etc – Hey! I’m a funny guy... Yeah, like real – pass the epinephrine.

>>She's playing the faux feminist . . . and the family-values representative. It's extraordinary that she can bring this off."<<

What kind of gobbledygook is this? I thought mainstream journalists were supposed to have already served their apprenticeship – but on the other hand, it is the Washington Post, yes?

But then again, you have loser campaign consultants being referenced as ‘quotable’. Go figure. Following:

>>Republican media consultant Fred Davis, a chief ad-maker for the McCain campaign, added: "I think it's a mistake too many conservatives are making right now. They are trying to find anything to attack."<<

But I’m a funny guy!

[jasd]

...and the young man, seeing that small leak in the dike – said to himself, “It’s no big deal, I’ll just ignore it.” And so saying – changed his path and moved on.

I remember when hommes jolie were happy to be simply left alone. Their former calls for the recognition of civil unions having been discarded, they now demand the traditional rights and rituals of holy matrimony. They next will raze the foundations of churches, synagogues, and other institutions.

It begins small, then escalates – witness Letterman’s repugnancy.

You see it on this thread where apologists for the denigration of 14-year old girls equate it as some sort of vanilla humour, and abide the libeling of our flight attendant sisters, wives, daughters, and mothers as slutty. Yeah, let it pass, all things do... but some things leave behind, among the righteous, the taste of gorge.

Sadly, misogynistic.

Cultural dissolution.

[bonnie]

...and the young man, seeing that small leak in the dike – said to himself, “It’s no big deal, I’ll just ignore it.” And so saying – changed his path and moved on.

I remember when hommes jolie were happy to be simply left alone. Their former calls for the recognition of civil unions having been discarded, they now demand the traditional rights and rituals of holy matrimony. They next will raze the foundations of churches, synagogues, and other institutions.

It begins small, then escalates – witness Letterman’s repugnancy.

You see it on this thread where apologists for the denigration of 14-year old girls equate it as some sort of vanilla humour, and abide the libeling of our flight attendant sisters, wives, daughters, and mothers as slutty. Yeah, let it pass, all things do... but some things leave behind, among the righteous, the taste of gorge.

Cultural dissolution.

The only thing that is wrong or worthy of consideration it may be wrong is the audacity to believe there is wrong.

My SIL is a flight attendant and there is nothing slutty about her or her appearance.

Any adult male that thinks denigration of 14-year old girls or 18 year old girls is funny has a perverted mind.

He is not one that I would want unsupervised around my teenage granddaughters. Those that can accept that trash as humor are those I would not want unsupervised around my granddaughters either.

The hatred and contempt for Sarah Palin really comes across more like fear.

Funny women should champion her,she exercised her "freedom of choice" and did not "terminate" her child with downs syndrome.

As a woman governor she is successful ,she stood by her daughter in what had to be a difficult time for both.

Oh, that's right,she is a conservative republican. That by itself throws out all the common decency of her opponents

[olger]

true Bonnie

og

[Dr. Shane]

Letterman also said that Palin was dressed like a slutty flight attendant. Consider what the joke is there. Palin is the joke. He is making fun of Palin.

Now consider this. I say my kids smell like pigs. My kids are the joke there. I am making fun of my kids. What does that say about what I think about pigs? It tells everyone that I think pigs smell bad. That is why I used pigs to make a joke about my kids.

Now back to Letterman. What does his joke about Palin tell us about what he thinks about flight attendants? Remember, he wasn't joking about flight attendants. He was joking about Palin. His joke tells us that he thinks flight attendants are slutty. Now does everyone see the picture? Does everyone understand why the liberal National Organization for Women is demanding an apology?

This isn't about politics folks. It is about the degradation of women. It is an outrage.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Anyone that thinks this is a political issue doesn't get it. They don't grasp the discussion. The issue is the demoralization of women.

Your opinion and yours to have. But not necessarily the truth.

OK, if this is about politics explain why we have both conservative and liberal organizations demanding an apology.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yeah right... it's not political.

That's why you keep referring to the liberal NOW as condemning what Letterman said. How is that word or their opinion relevant if you don't want this to be political! And why it is somehow relevant to even ask, "OK, if this is about politics explain why we have both conservative and liberal organizations demanding an apology." (Shane if it wasn't political in your mind it would not matter what political orientation the critics are...)

And that is why Bonnie closed out two of her posts with the last sentences, "Oh, that's right,she is a conservative republican. That by itself throws out all the common decency of her opponents" and "Wonder why Letterman feels so threatened by a attractive woman of a opposing political ideology?"

And that is why at the very beginning there were a number of posts talking about the politically targeted humor of other comedians, including the exclusively political comedian Rush L.

Not political?!?!

[bonnie]

Quote:

And that is why Bonnie closed out two of her posts with the last sentences, "Oh, that's right,she is a conservative republican. That by itself throws out all the common decency of her opponents" and "Wonder why Letterman feels so threatened by a attractive woman of a opposing political ideology?"

And that is why at the very beginning their were a number of posts talking about the politically targeted humor of other comedians.

Not political?!?!

For once you are right. Had Sarah Palin been a liberal democrat this would not have been said about her. The fact that she is a conservative republican makes her fair game for trash humor.

Can you see the name Michelle Obama in Sarah Palins place?

It was politically targeted trash. Trash approved of by many. Attempts to explain away and make light of the trash of Letterman

[Dr. Shane]

Letterman's reason for attacking Palin was political - no doubt. And many conservatives that are attacking Letterman for attacking Palin are doing so for political reasons. No doubt. However much of the public uproar, including that of the mainstream media, is not driven by politics. Perhaps it would be better to say it is not partisan rather than saying it is not political because people and groups of all political persuasions are offended and calling for Letterman to make an apology.

Most mornings I watch GMA (Good Morning America) which is broadcast by ABC. The hosts of the show typically lean liberal and they have not been giving Letterman any slack. Both hosts are women (Diane Sawyer & Robin Roberts). I don't think they are offended because of any political ideology. I think they are offended because Letterman demoralized women.

Trying to make this into a Republican verses Democrat or Conservative verses Liberal issue lets Letterman off the hook for his comments which stereotype women as objects of sexual pleasure for men rather than professional women on equal ground.

[bonnie]

Letterman's reason for attacking Palin was political - no doubt. And many conservatives that are attacking Letterman for attacking Palin are doing so for political reasons. No doubt. However much of the public uproar, including that of the mainstream media, is not driven by politics. Perhaps it would be better to say it is not partisan rather than saying it is not political because people and groups of all political persuasions are offended and calling for Letterman to make an apology.

The public uproar is not political necessarirly,but Lettermean was. Under no circumstances would he have made a similar statement about Michelle Obama,Hilary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi.

Personally a apology at this point is pointless and totally worthless. A forced apology is more demeaning than the act being apologized for.

From the day McCain announced her as his running mate there has been something about this woman that the liberal left fears.

The same way the liberal left fears Rush Limbaugh. If they didn't they would not spend so much time trying to disparage a non-political(as in office) radio host.

[bonnie]

So, keep avoiding the answer that Letterman gave, it was about the 18 y/o. It has not been proved by any means, that he spoke about the 14 y/o, yet all the righteous indignation goes on.

There is a lot of this, "he's a lier" by insinuation! When posters on these forums even faintly think another poster is doing that to them, listen to the 'hue and cry'!

I say, a lot of two-face rhetoric!!

Maybe the hue and cry is the age really doesn't matter. What Letterman said is entirely inappropriate'

I have a 14 year old granddaughter and one 18 years old

I would not want to place either in a unsupervised setting with any that is so lacking in just plain common sense and decency.

Either by making the statement,making excuses for the limited menatlity that does it,or any that think it is funny and appropriate humor

[Dr. Shane]

So, keep avoiding the answer that Letterman gave, it was about the 18 y/o. It has not been proved by any means, that he spoke about the 14 y/o...

The 14 year old is the one that went to the game with her mom. It was after Letterman starting getting heat that he came up with the convenient explanation that he was talking about the 18 year old. Some people are gullible enough to accept that explanation. Even if it were true it makes little difference. What about all the flight attendants he labels with the "S" word?

[Dr. Shane]

OK, if this is about politics explain why we have both conservative and liberal organizations demanding an apology.

[bonnie]

Read....read...you missed the point! Posters have focused on the age of 14. When he said no, it wasn't, that was ignored. Now you have said, well I have an 18 and don't want her to be spoken about that way either. Okay.

Where is the apology for assuming he was talking about the 14 y/o and being wrong?

I sincerely hope there is no apology to a man that is so lacking he knows no boundries.

It was not wrong because of the age,it was flat out wrong,PERIOD.

What he did was not funny to most people that do have boundries,not every one does. It was wrong ,whether he was speaking of slutty flight attendants or the 14 year old or the 18 year old.

I wuold not want my granddaughters to be in a unsupervised setting with either the one saying this trash or the ones excusing it or now thinking this garbage mouth deserves an apology because he was speaking about a 18 year old instead of the 14 year old. Neither are exhibiting normal boundries

[bonnie]

It is opinions like those being posted on this thread and others that turn off so many from Christianity. Its called the forked tongue syndrome.

Christians feel they have every right to say what they please, regardless of facts, along as it suits their agenda. Insinuate. judge, call people lier's, etc.

However, all the rest.....

I didn't see any insinuation. I do see a lot of "strawmen" in what you said.

If the lack of finding what Letterman said as funny or okay because it was really a 18 year old he was referring to turns others off of christianity,so be it.

It is obvious Christianity means different things to different people.

You have a very strange outlook on "the forked tongue syndrome"

An opinion is just that,an opinion,not something to be tailored

to soothe the feelings of others for approval.

Yes, I do have every right to say Letterman is not a man I would want around my granddaughters. Nor would I want any that think to pacify and win approval from a man like this is christian.

Facts are pretty close to what this man pretended to brush off as humor. Whether it was the 18 year old or the 14 year old,his true colors showed. And by extension a lot of true colors of others showed

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

[/quote']

Duh!!! If it wasn't, why are politicians involved!!

So am I to understand that everything that involves politicians is political?

Well, politicians go to the grocery store so I guess going to the grocery store is now political. Politicians mow their lawns so I guess mowing the lawn is now political. Politicians drive their cars so I guess driving a car is political. In that world, everything is political.

In my world being a flight attendant is not political. In my world, being a baseball star is not political.

[Dr. Shane]

Comedy may be appropriate or inappropriate, that is the nature of it...

Letterman was not joking about the flight attendants. His use of them in his joke about Palin shows that he really thinks flight attendants are slutty. And that is not offensive?

[Dr. Shane]

It is opinions like those being posted on this thread and others that turn off so many from Christianity...

It is not just Christians that are offended by Letterman's degradation of women. This is not a religious or political issue. What I see is that the defenders of Letterman are grasping at straws - - - or strawmen.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Comedy may be appropriate or inappropriate, that is the nature of it...

Letterman was not joking about the flight attendants. His use of them in his joke about Palin shows that he really thinks flight attendants are slutty. And that is not offensive?

I didn't take it that way at all. I took it as a direct hit to Palin, personally, not to flight attendants in general. Iow, that SP looks like a flight attendant, only worse.