Members phkrause Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Came across this on the web. www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Acknowledging_Israels_History.asp pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Well, that's the kind of speech I would expect to find on a pro-Israel website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Is pro-Israel bad??? Or does "pro-Israel" get the propaganda tag (unlike the "anti-Israel" stuff that's believed like Gospel)? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Is pro-Israel bad??? Or does "pro-Israel" get the propaganda tag (unlike the "anti-Israel" stuff that's believed like Gospel)? Pro-Israel is out and anti-Israel is in, Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2009 What's wrong with being pro Israel? At least the guy actually did his homework on how things have progressed in Palestine from way back. Has anyone who is not for Israel checked this out. I think the video was very informative and pretty accurate of the events leading up to the present day! pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 The facts he presented are largely true. But he draws some interesting conclusions and leaves out a few things, like the negative things Israel has done over the years. I can't see that it's a balanced picture. It's a romanticized picture and pretty much how the pro-Israel people see the situation, so it makes sense that a pro-Israel website would pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WilloMar Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Pro-Israel, and anti-Israel, are expressions of the worldly. We must come out of the world and receive Christ Jesus in our hearts, and love all of mankind equally. We must not be a respecter of persons, because He isn't: Acts 10:34, 1 Pet. 1:17, Rom. 2:11, etc. Let's get ready for His soon coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2009 Yes dgrimm I agree with you, Israel is only an ally, and we always should help our allies. But not to the detriments of others. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Isn't Israel/Jews the wounded head found in Revelation 13:3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2009 Absolutely not!!! pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 In my research, I found that only one of the 7 major religions, (the Jews), had their way of worship (sacrifice) destroyed/stopped because of a war (accomplished by war). Clearly it was no other religious entity. Catholics lost a pope many times but it did not stop the way they worshiped. And none of the popes were ever destroyed or removed because of a war. It was written by many Protestant teachers and preacher that their 'moma church' was this wounded head, but what they wrote does not support scripture. EGW's remark(s) in the GC was changed by Prescot (who admitted it) by one little word he added. He added the word "ONLY" making her comment to read that it was only the Catholic Church that was this entity. However, her true remark has the Catholics among all of the other religious entites being this entity. Therefore, by saying "Absolutely not!!!" 'pk' can you defend your answer? Blessings, (SDA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2009 So I think you just answered your own question, about what EGW says about the beast that gets wounded and than recovers. And I believe this is what revelation is saying in chapter 13! But we're talking about a system not its individual's. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Answer this prophetic question based on Rev 13:1-4: What religious system/practices (head) was completely stopped as a result of war, but will reappear during the Tribulation and the world will be in awe? Note: The Catholic mass was never stopped because a Pope was captured due to a war. Six Popes were captured by armies during the history of the Papacy, yet at no time did the main religious practice of the Catholic church (the mass/eucharist) ceased to operate. The answer relates to the current topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Pk and dgrimm, we are talking about the 'wounded head' NOT the beast. They are different things. It is no wonder you are confused. But hang in there and keep searching for truth. Only the 'wise' will understand (Dan. 12:9-12) but none of the wicked will understand. Keep this in mind in your study. It is true that the whole world will wonder after the beast--but the beast is not the wounded head. Please check it out. (If you want info on the beast of Rev. 13, that is another issue for another 'forum'.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Oh, trust me dgrimm60, I know Satan is using the Catholic church and has for centuries. He uses EVERY church for his purposes because churches are invented by man for mans purposes which, for the most part, are Satan's. Political and religious systems use Tradition as a means of mind-conditioning and control. Tradition firmly establishes a belief system that prevents the discovery of the Truth. These systems must keep the truth hidden in order to maintain control over the masses, because if the people discovered the truth these systems would loose control. Tradition and Truth are inversely proportional. Notice that there are 7 heads on the beast of Rev. 13, each with a blasphemous name. Seven is the number of perfection which in this case means the totality of all of the religious systems invented by man on earth. This includes but is not limited to: Universal Christan Church, all protestant Christisn churches (including SDA), Buddist, Shinto, Hindu, Islam, Mormon (not protestant), Wicka, and Judaism. It is quite clear to me that the Catholic church and the Papacy do not fulfill the requirements of the specific prophecy in Rev.13 about the wounded head. The prophecy is not about individuals but systems or religions. What religion had its main practices taken away by war? To find the answer we will have to assess each religions main practice and see where in history is was taken away. Catholics have the mass/eucharist. Christians have the last supper bread and wine. Mormons have baptism of the dead (endorsed by Paul). Islam has the Hadj. I don't know Buddist, Shinto or Hindu enough to know what their main practice is, or any number of the hundreds of religions of the world that would all be represented by the seven heads. None of the aforementioned religions have to my knowledge had their main practices/rituals taken away by war. Only one religion qualifies on all points and it is the same religion that Jesus Christ tried and failed to straighten out while He was here on earth. It is the same religion whos leadership said, "We have no king but Caesar", and "His blood be on our heads and the heads of our children". At the end of 33 C.E. the 490 years of Dan. 9:24 came to a close. Israel became like any other nation on earth, and the earth was without a Kingdom of Heaven (The Holy Spirit fled into the wilderness). Yet they continued to practice the daily sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of the sins of Israel. God was using the assembly in Jerusalem to take the message of His love and salvation to the world. Yet Judaism was still practice full force in Jerusalem and throughout Palestine. God knew that this young assembly called "The Way" would fail and die out if the practice and rituals of Judaism continued, so in 68 C.E. Titus came and invested (surrounded) Jerusalem. Yet God was still going to protect His young assembly/church. So in a few months Caesar sent for Titus and his army and they left on another errand. This gave the Way and others a chance to heed the words and prophecy of Jesus Christ and get out, which they did. Not one Christian was lost to Roman Siege when Titus returned to sack Jerusalem in 70 C.E. At that time not one stone of the temple was left standing on another (the soldier were looking for gold and treasure). From then on until today NO animals have been sacrificed in atonement for the sins of the camp of Israel. This religious practice/ritual was put to an end by war. This is the taking away of the Daily Sacrifice that is spoken of in Daniel and that Jesus speaks about in His prophecies of the end. Therefore, it is my understanding that the head with the fatal wound that was healed represents a resurgent Judaism, practiced in a new temple, wherein during the Great Tribulation Satan will stand and declare himself to be the God of this world . . . and the world will wonder after the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 Dr. Rich that is exactly what we are talking about. Its talking about a beast with 10 horns and 7 heads and one of its heads seems like it has a mortal wound, and its healed. So we are talking about the same thing. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 And all this time I thought the heading for this post was "Re: Israel". Don't really like to argue facts with people of faith since it wasts my time, but the wounded head is not the same as the beast--please check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 sounds good to me dgrimm. Lets move on to another topic. Thanks and Blessings,(SDA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Oh, trust me dgrimm60, I know Satan is using the Catholic church and has for centuries. He uses EVERY church for his purposes because churches are invented by man for mans purposes which, for the most part, are Satan's. Political and religious systems use Tradition as a means of mind-conditioning and control. Tradition firmly establishes a belief system that prevents the discovery of the Truth. These systems must keep the truth hidden in order to maintain control over the masses, because if the people discovered the truth these systems would loose control. Tradition and Truth are inversely proportional. Notice that there are 7 heads on the beast of Rev. 13, each with a blasphemous name. Seven is the number of perfection which in this case means the totality of all of the religious systems invented by man on earth. This includes but is not limited to: Universal Christan Church, all protestant Christisn churches (including SDA), Buddist, Shinto, Hindu, Islam, Mormon (not protestant), Wicka, and Judaism. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 With the destruction of Jerusalem and dispersment, Israel ceased to be a nation, you might say they were forced to wander as their fathers did. In 1948 they were resurected from the dead, so to speak, when they were given their own land and became a nation once more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Ted Wrote: "Wish you hadn't said this one, as it is merely your own opinion. The proposal of Paul endorsing false beliefs and doctrines is a personal bug-a-boo of mine; tread carefully here, as I am treading carefully with this point: The vast majority of well-versed Bible students I know of do not accept the idea Paul endorsed baptism of the dead..." Not so fast there Ted. It clearly is the same opinion of most of the members and leaders of the Mormon church--isn't it? But hey, I understand. Paul's endorsing false beliefs and doctrines is a bug-a-boo of mine too! Nuf-said. I will wait for the new thread to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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