What does the SDA church stand for?

[LifeHiscost]

Ellen White said the persecution would return in our day. What better way for that to happen than for the pope to be in control of things. He already controls far more than you know, obviously. I can't believe I'm having to say this to an SDA!

Our problem as a whole is that we are spiritually blind.

Rev 3:16-18 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

It's enough to make one weep if it were not for the latter counsel of the Scripture, that actually tells us there is yet reason to hope. Also reason for praising the Lord in this counsel.

"Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”"Luke 21:28 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

There is one other major reason why it can be seen that God rearranges His timetable as He sees fit, for the sake of His body.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Praise God that He has enough compassion to wait, even while I was ignorant enough to deliberately turn away from His proffered

promises.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 KJV

Blessings!

[Musicman1228]

Would it make a difference to your spiritual growth, to your attitude toward righteousness and justice if you knew with absolute certainty the time frame within which Jesus Christ will return? I am not saying the exact day and hour but the proven from Scriptural prophecy "appointed time of the end".

Would what you do and how you do it be affected by that knowledge? Would your relationships with family and friends be altered in any positive way?

God does have an appointed time of the end. As a separate body of believers we have been preaching "He is coming soon" since Wm. Miller first came on the scene over 160 years ago. Generations have come and gone believing with all their hearts that they were the final generation that would be living on earth. You must recognize that the fervor of our youth (as a church) has given way to a sleepiness brought on by the hypnotic drumming of the chant "He is coming soon, are you ready? He is coming soon, are you ready?"

Will God continue to wait for us, or is He going to eventually say, "Ready or not here I come"?

[BobRyan]

Rich4Truth, and pray tell where did the Catholics get their ideas from? If you complain about them, then you had better investigate why, how and when they got their start and the ideas and doctine they developed. And remember, EGW also said she had a vision from God that Jesus would return in her day too. Did that happen?

Jonah's prediction of certain doom was that in 40 days Ninevah would be destroyed. Then Jonah waited with earnest expectation of the event - when it did not happen - he was angry with God.

Angry because the Jeremiah 18 priniciple of conditional prophecy was "true".

Apparently he was not the only person to get upset about Jeremiah 18 and conditional prophecy.

in Christ,

Bob

[Richard Holbrook]

Rich4Truth, and pray tell where did the Catholics get their ideas from? If you complain about them, then you had better investigate why, how and when they got their start and the ideas and doctine they developed. And remember, EGW also said she had a vision from God that Jesus would return in her day too. Did that happen?

What are you talking about? Their ideas came straight out of paganism. Read a book man!! And Ellen White never said Christ was coming in her day. (you can't show me one quote!)She never put any time constraints on it. She did however tell what would be going on right before it happens. And quess what? It's coming to pass like clockwork.

But then you probably don't even believe EGW.

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2 Pet 3:4

Hmmmm sounds familiar.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2thess 2:10,11

[Joe_in_RP]

What I am trying to determine here is what should our behavior be.

[LifeHiscost]

What I am trying to determine here is what should our behavior be.

A short quote from the Spirit of Prophecy has made a definite

difference re: my answer for what I might be occupied with today.

"Live as if Jesus' coming were going to be today. Prepare as if we had eternity."

Regards!

[Richard Holbrook]

Originally Posted By: Joe Knapp

The history of the church has been to inform people of the truth. We have been champions of the truth. But truth is not just the bible. It is bible principles lived out in peoples behavior. Today we live in a time of good and evil.

But has the church and some institutions become politically correct?

Today Bloomberg is reporting the following headline "Pope Calls for New Financial Order With ‘Real Teeth’ "

It describes the headline in the first paragraph.

"INFORM PEOPLE OF THE TRUTH"??????

What nonsense....We are called to be children of the King. We are called to show the spirit of the God of the universe in our lives. Our primary duty is to live as Christ would have lived.

I agree that our lives are "bible principles lived out in peoples behavior."...but to immediately concider our revulsion of the 'Pope and his policys ' is NOT Christ-like behavior. Did Christ fretted over Anniais or Ciaphais or Pilate? What nonsense...!

Now that's rather harsh don't you think?

[Richard Holbrook]

Here you are calling the man's thoughts nonsense, when all he did was speak the truth. I see nothing nonsensical about it. Rather harsh indeed.

There once were two pots, one called the other one black. How does that go.......

[Dr. Rich]

Rich4truth wrote: "What are you talking about? Their ideas came straight out of paganism. Read a book man!! And Ellen White never said Christ was coming in her day. (you can't show me one quote!)She never put any time constraints on it. She did however tell what would be going on right before it happens. And quess what? It's coming to pass like clockwork. But then you probably don't even believe EGW."

1) May I suggest the same for you sir, but I would also suggest more than one book. Would you like to visit my office and pick out a few among the many?

2) As for EGW, please enjoy what she wrote below:

“I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus."--1T 131, 132 (1856). {LDE 36.3}

“Because time is short, we should work with diligence and double energy. Our children may never enter college.”--3T 159 (1872). {LDE 36.4}

“It is really not wise to have children now. Time is short, the perils of the last days are upon us, and the little children will be largely swept off before this”...--Letter 48, 1876. {LDE 36.5}

“In this age of the world, as the scenes of earth's history are soon to close and we are about to enter upon the time of trouble such as never was, the fewer the marriages contracted the better for all, both men and women.”--5T 366 (1885). {LDE 37.1}

“The hour will come; it is not far distant, and some of us who now believe will be alive upon the earth, and shall see the prediction verified, and hear the voice of the archangel and the trump of God echo from mountain and plain and sea to the uttermost parts of the earth.”--RH July 31, 1888. {LDE 37.2}

Please remember on thing-a good lawyer never asks a question without knowing the right answer. A good lawyer will also never give information as fact without having the evidence to support the fact. Enjoy!

[True-believer]

A short quote from the Spirit of Prophecy has made a definite

difference re: my answer for what I might be occupied with today.

"Live as if Jesus' coming were going to be today. Prepare as if we had eternity."

Regards!

Thanks LifeHiscost,

very important words above,

we should live like as if Jesus could return TODAY

[Joe_in_RP]

Ok but beyond that what is our role?

For 120 years Noah told the people God would judge them. They did not repent and he destroyed them.

God sent Jonah to warm the citizens of Nineveh. They were spared.

Whose job is it to warn the world today?

I have been reflecting on this in the last month. We have seen people at public gathering with signs that people should turn from their sins because God will judge them. Most of us are offended by these people.

Let me right here that I the those westboro baptist church people who picket funerals are not from God. Spewing hate is a tactic of satan.

But there are christains who are out with signs warning the world. Now maybe God uses these people in there less than perfect ways because no one else will do it.

Now think about it. Sin is everywhere. The world has become far more sinful in my lifetime.

To anyone who studies and follows the bible it is clear that Jesus will come soon. But there are people in our church who don't believe Jesus will come in their lifetime. They attend church and may even be the leadership.

Our church has taught for over 100 years that we are IN the time of the judgment.

Do we really believe what our church teaches? If we do then what is our role to warn the people?

Are we behaving like Jonah? Are we hiding from our role?

I don't know the answers to these questions. At one time I thought I did. I went around to my friends in the local churches and warned them of this new world goverment. I explained to them that all is not right. That we should be reading our bibles everyday because the end is nearer than they think.

I have alienated almost all of my former friends.

Maybe they don't want to hear the bad news. Maybe they want to continue to live a life of the world. I don't know. But everyday I see us getting closer to Jesus return.

So I keep coming back to this question. What should we do ?

[BobRyan]

Ok but beyond that what is our role?

For 120 years Noah told the people God would judge them. They did not repent and he destroyed them.

God sent Jonah to warm the citizens of Nineveh. They were spared.

Whose job is it to warn the world today?

I have been reflecting on this in the last month. We have seen people at public gathering with signs that people should turn from their sins because God will judge them. Most of us are offended by these people.

Let me right here that I the those westboro baptist church people who picket funerals are not from God. Spewing hate is a tactic of satan.

But there are christains who are out with signs warning the world. Now maybe God uses these people in there less than perfect ways because no one else will do it.

Now think about it. Sin is everywhere. The world has become far more sinful in my lifetime.

To anyone who studies and follows the bible it is clear that Jesus will come soon. But there are people in our church who don't believe Jesus will come in their lifetime. They attend church and may even be the leadership.

[BobRyan]

Joe - since your post shows that you are one of the few that have "awakened" to the problem as you are asking the pointed questions -- you may be among the few that are ready for the "answer" that I found so shocking when I discovered it a number of months ago.

Al Jazeera – “6 Million African Muslims convert to Christianity each year” (May 6, 2006 report)

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/AlJazeerahAfrica.php

Christianity Today report on a survey of almost 1000 Muslims that came to Christ

Quote:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/article_print.html?id=50866

“As with Paul and Cornelius in Acts, visions and dreams played a role in the conversion of many. More than one in four respondents, 27 percent, noted dreams and visions before their decision for Christ, 40 percent at the time of conversion, and 45 percent afterward.”

...

NOTE:

“Between 1991 and 2007, about 750 Muslims who have decided to follow Christ filled out an extensive questionnaire on that basic question. The respondents—from 30 countries and 50 ethnic groups—represent every major region of the Muslim world. (Copies of the questionnaire are available from dudley@fuller.edu.) The participants ranked the relative importance of different influences and whether they occurred before, at the time of, or after their decision to follow Christ. While the survey, prepared at Fuller Theological Seminary's School of Intercultural Studies, does not claim scientific precision, it provides a glimpse into some of the key means the Spirit of God is using to open Muslim hearts to the gospel.”

Another site reports 15,000 Muslims in France convert to Christianity each year –

Quote:

“Terrific news from France, ...Around 15,000 Muslims each year are converting to Christianity “

http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/223...-in-France.html

=

Dave Wilkerson - author of "The Cross and the Switchblade" (nondenominational)

Quote:

SATURDAY, MARCH 7, 2009

AN URGENT MESSAGE

I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world.

AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE - EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.

For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires—such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.

There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting—including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written,

“If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?” (v. 3).

God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations. He is destroying the secular foundations.

...

http://davidwilkersontoday.blogspot.com/

Candace – conversion to Christianity - 2007

Quote:

http://www.4hispeople.com/candace.htm

FROM CANDACE – November 2007

[Note: This is an edited version of an amazing testimony from a former prostitute who is now a follower of Jesus Christ - as a dedicated Seventh-day Adventist.]

Greetings to Everyone:

On June 20 I was working in the evening. I was a prostitute. I had been working the streets since I was 16. The reason I started at that age is not as important as where I am now. I was a heavy drug user. Mostly crack. I drank a lot. I still am battling with cigarettes. This is the really hard part that I have shared with many of my friends who are no longer my friends but some have accepted what I have shared with them to be truth. I do not share this for you to look at me but to look at Jesus, as He is the one who forgave me in the life I was walking and now walk in a new way.

I was on my corner when a man in a convertible said he would like to speak with me. I said, “Sure.” I climbed in and we began driving. He looked over at me and called me Candace. I was shocked and thought the worst. He then said, “Do not be afraid.” He began to explain to me that he had been sent to give me a message and that message was from Jesus Christ. He told me that Jesus is coming and that He wants me to get ready to go to heaven. I was very scared and told the man that I did not want to die. The man said, “Do not be afraid because no harm will come to you.”

The man pulled into a shopping center parking lot and stopped. He told me that there is a man that is receiving messages from Jesus and that this very night Jesus would show him the importance of the cross that He died on. This man told me the man’s name is Ernie Knoll, that he has been receiving dreams from Jesus and that the dreams can be read on a web site www.4hispeople.com/dreams.html . He told me the web site and I wrote it down. Then the man told me to find a TV show called “It Is Written” with Shawn Boonstra and another TV show called “Amazing Facts” with Doug Batchelor and that these men will teach me what I need to know. I wrote down these TV shows and their names. Then the man said that these three men have been selected by Jesus to do an important work together for Him, that I was to change the way I live and that Jesus is coming to take me to heaven. The man said to keep watching for Jesus, that there is much to learn and this is a good place to start.

The man then got out of the car and walked around to my door and opened it so I could get out. He pointed toward the buildings and said that there was a meeting going on in there and they would help me with my questions. He said he was to leave but for me to walk in the new way in which I was shown. As I looked at the man, he had the way that he looked change right before me and I fell to my knees and began crying. I watched as I saw this man change into a bright being of light. I watched as he had wings that somehow came out from behind him and he flew up and away.

After a few minutes I got up and noticed there was no car there. I started walking to the place in the shopping center where there was a religious meeting going on. I went in, sat down and tried to listen but I was numb and shaking from what had just happened. After the meeting ended I spoke to several of the people there and they made me feel welcome. They gave me a Bible and a book called The Great Controversy. …

Ernie Knoll – SDA elder. Dec 14, 2007 Tells of having an inspired dream.

Quote:

Warning about world wide destruction of cities

http://www.4hispeople.com/StandFast.htm

The angel stands up and says to hold fast to my courage, as he will now show me things which must happen. He again says he has much to show me. We begin walking through the corridor wall. On the other side I find we are at a very high altitude in the sky, as if we are a bird flying, watching our country. I see destruction unfold on the face of the earth. {3} Great round burning objects hit certain cities which destroy all who live there. These round objects cause the earth to shake. Other cities hundreds and hundreds of miles away from where those cities were destroyed begin to shake and the buildings fall, crashing to the ground. I see explosions of immense heat and fire emerging from the ground. What looks like liquid fire runs through many areas. This liquid consumes everything in its path. I see fire shoot up in the sky as if it were a fountain of water, except it is burning. {4} All across the country I see certain cities with unfathomable destruction.

Even though I cannot see other parts of the world, I know the things I see in front of me are happening there as well. In order to see better, we descend closer to a certain city. I watch as vehicles on highways and interstates crash. The roads that the cars and trucks are traveling on open up into crevasses. It is as if the road is pulled apart. In other areas I see the roads begin to crunch together and the pavement stack up on top of each other, becoming pavement on top of pavement. We turn and I see large airports. The runways disappear into the earth. The airplanes have no place to land. I am now taken to other areas that are not as densely populated, and the people there are unharmed. There are many towns and cities that are not destroyed. I ask the angel if I may tell which cities. He answers, "No, that is not permitted." He explains that each must learn the guidance of the Holy Spirit concerning where God would have them live. He then says, "Come, I have more to show you."

The angel and I return to the corridor and pause for a little while. He explains, "His people are to understand that the next thing I show you must happen. God is in control." We pass through the wall and I am now watching many funerals all at the same time. I know that many elderly people have been laid to rest. I am also shown that many infants and small children are laid to rest. The Herald Angel explains that this is in God’s love, that it should be understood they are laid to rest so they will not have to endure the time that is upon us. {5} I watch as mothers say goodbye to their newborn or young children…

For everyone who sees or hears this with spiritual insight "a word to the wise is sufficient".

[LifeHiscost]

Rev 3:16-18 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Approximately 1975, a young man with aspirations of becoming a preacher, stood before a small congregation and delivered the message you've written above. Before he finished, two deacons approached the pulpit and ushered him out of the sanctuary, one on each side of the young man.

That young man today is a Christian physician. I wonder how many people today would have been led to Jesus Christ by the spoken Word expressed through his lips, if those older and supposedly wiser hadn't poured cold water on the fire in his soul.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Those who trust in Jesus still have this hope.

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 NKJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

“The hour will come; it is not far distant, and some of us who now believe will be alive upon the earth, and shall see the prediction verified, and hear the voice of the archangel and the trump of God echo from mountain and plain and sea to the uttermost parts of the earth.”--RH July 31, 1888. {LDE 37.2}

This is a good example, that prophetic utterance can be conditional, that is, unless there are those on this earth from that time now approximately 141 years old. Or would this be referring to those resurrected just prior to Jesus return in glory?

Regards!

[Dr. Rich]

What she said here was not a conditional prophecy. If it was, then what was the condition? How much evidence does one need to prove her vision was not of God? I give up!

[LifeHiscost]

So I keep coming back to this question. What should we do ?

There was a good Spirit of prophecy quote in one of the last two Sabbath school quarterlies which pointed out definitely the need for allowances re; determining what others than our own duties

should be. And I don't find it inconsistent with this from the Word.

" Let each be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5 NKJV

Regards!

[John317]

What she said here was not a conditional prophecy. If it was, then what was the condition? How much evidence does one need to prove her vision was not of God? I give up!

It is conditional in the sense that Christ could have returned in the 1880s and early 90s. This is what Ellen White states clearly in Last Day Events, pp. 36-39; also Ev. 695, 696. The Bible also contains conditional prophecies. See, for instance, Deut. 28; Jonah 3: 4. I don't find it hard to believe at all that Christ could have come at that time if the church had responded differently than it did. After all, the Bible shows that the children of Israel could have entered directly into the Promised Land if they hadn't rebelled against God and His prophet Moses. It seems obvious that the church rebelled against the 1888 Message and against the Spirit of Prophecy, so I don't think it should be a surprise to us that we're still here.

I see lots of evidence in the Bible that what humans do does have an impact on what God does. For instance, we have the evidence of the Fall, the Flood, the destruction of Sodom; the blessings and the cursings; the 70 week prophecy regarding Israel; the conditional prophecies of Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zechariah; and the letters to the churches in Rev. Lots of people do not take into account the fact that the Bible contains conditional prophecies regarding the nation of Israel if it had accepted the Messiah. Things could have happened quite differently than they did. God did not force Israel to reject the Messiah. Christ would have been killed but His death didn't have to happen exactly as it did.

[BobRyan]

What she said here was not a conditional prophecy. If it was, then what was the condition?

Jonah said "Forty days and Ninevah WILL be DESTROYED".

Jonah then waits anxiously to SEE that destruction.

Jonah is furious when Ninevah is NOT destroyed!

Jeremiah 18 OVERRULED Jonah's "certain doom" prophecy on the Jeremiah 18 principle that IF God says He will curse or destroy AND that group or nation TURNS and repents - God will not destroy.

The same is ALSO mentioned in Jeremiah 18 for BLESSINGS that are NOT received if the one to whom the blessing is promised - turns away from God.

Ellen White pointed to the problem of "insubordination" and failure on the part of God's people. But now - once again the great clock of time is bringing us back to that SAME point of entry into Caanan -- once again.

And now we must decide if we will be among those who rebel and turn from God's message or be among those who follow on - who remain faithful.

Ellen White predicts that the "majority will leave" within the Adventist church - even stating that in her day - not 1 in 20 was saved.

Today we have an indication that it is not 1/1000 that will cross over that line to the close of probation.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

Nice try Bob, but your argument will not work here. Your argument lacks merrit because all of the rest gave what the condition was going to be--not for EGW though. She SAW that some NOW alive would be LIVING at the time Christ returned. Well, were is the condition for that? Yes, I read what you said, but it just doesn't wash.

[LifeHiscost]

She SAW that some NOW alive would be LIVING at the time Christ returned.

As I understand it, some, even among the most wicked that have been Jesus' worst enemies, will be resurrected to see Him come the second time in glory. If this be true, and I believe it to be such, then it takes not a great stretch of the imagination to see some who were alive at that time she mentions, will also have

the privilege to be raised to life just prior to Jesus' return, as a witness to those who believe for whatever benefit Jesus would determine would be to His honor and glory.

As to your effort to prove Ellen White less than what she made claim, that in itself proves to me she is far more than you give her credit, for a myth needs no great effort to prove it is unworthy of our attention, any more than we place great effort to prove that Santa Claus is a fairy tale.

The biblical principle:

"So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown;

but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God." "

Acts 5:38,39 NASB

As also:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."Hebrews 11:6 KJV

"“Hear me, O Judah and you inhabitants of Jerusalem: Believe in the LORD your God, and you shall be established; believe His prophets, and you shall prosper."2 Chronicles 20:20 NKJV

Regards!

[Woody]

It is not possible for Ellen White to have a prophecy not fulfilled. Why? Because we can always claim that it was conditional. Thus .... all of her words are claimed to be from God because they can simply be called 'conditional' even though no mention of the condition exists.

[Ted Oplinger]

Hmmmm...is there a distinction between visions, and true prophecies?

When is one automatically the other?

Simply asking...

[BobRyan]

Nice try Bob, but your argument will not work here. Your argument lacks merrit because all of the rest gave what the condition was going to be--not for EGW though.

Just making stuff up is not helping your argument as much as you might have at first imagined.

Jonah does not say "repent OR else in 40 days Ninevah will be destroyed" -- obviously.

Jonah is outraged that the city is not destroyed as his "certain doom" message stated so clearly.

But the Jeremiah 18 principle of "conditional prophecy" does not say "ONLY IF the prophet INCLUDES this conditional element - are my curses and blessings conditional" they way you seem to have imagined.

There is the part where your argument is transparently flawed.

Your pretending "not to notice" is fine -- if that is how you are going to defend your accusation ... but for everyone else here...

Well you see the problem.

in Christ,

Bob