Key Guy Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 American Revolution II. Mentioned on the ClubAdventist Politics forum. I know things are very, very wrong in the state of American affairs, when the ranckle of revolt reaches this relatively placid domain. I've heard this kind of talk from many different sources, and different kinds of revolt, but not here (of course, I've only been frequenting this particular forum for a little bit of time now...). There's only one thing I won't agree to among the points given on how to get the country back on its feet: I would not dispense with the Electoral College. Turning the Presidency into mob rule majority% endeavor is a step back. The Electoral College was put in place to reduce the effect of large State vs small State contributions to the election. That situation has been replaced with large city/rural area effect - so the EC is still very much necessary in my opinion. It needs a little re-working, that's all. With the majority% in a presidential election, all the campaigns need to do is focus on California (specifically, LA and San Fran), Chicago, and the Northeast corridor (Baltimore/DC to Boston). Over 51% of the population of America lives in these zones The rest of the country wouldn't matter very much. I personally wouldn't like that situation for very long. I would even recommend beefing up the low-population contributions a little more in the EC, and reduce the contribution of the large population city areas. I would instead put in the place of that suggestion the return of the Senator being appointed as ambassadors from their State's own legislature, for a term of at least the six years referenced in the Constitution. If they weren't truly representing the interests of the State they were supposed to, the legislature could recall them at any time, and replace them with someone who would. I would also strongly suggest the elimination of every "czar" and bureaucracy from the government rolls - this is the source of most of the tyranny we experience day-to-day. Welfare is best handled by the charities and churches. It is their ministry - let them do it. Social Security should also be put into private hands. Allow people to put the payroll taxes into their own retirement accounts, structure them how they are best comfortable with, educate them toward the best ways to mange them, then leave the money to grow. Make it inheritable, exempt from estate taxes. Return the income tax to its previous unConstitutional status. Without these three points, politicians lose at least 80% of their ability to stay in office by buying votes or fear-mongering the loss of "benefits" - as if enslavement through these programs is a "benefit". The rest of the ideas are solid. Yet the sending of the teabags is something that's been going on for months now. I have heard from several sources that the politicians are simply amused at this, and do not considered the populace a threat. The usual comment has been, "Let them have tea..." Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Reply number two... IF Americans are going to consider the revolt process again (peaceful or otherwise), then they best consider the type of revolt they wish to engage in - an American Revolt, or a French revolt. Both were emotionally charged events, but had distinctly different results and political outcomes. The American revolt - sought to engage the system first, to get a reasonable response first. Revolution was the last step. Led by and participated in by people who had their entire livelihoods and estates at risk with the revolutionary process. Maintained control of the people's political process throughout the process of revolution - the people were not encouraged to go into mob responses, maintained self-restraint in the face of "Official" government response. Practical Independence with Freedom, as a people, was the goal. The outworking of the revolution first produced the Articles of Confederation, then patiently worked out the current Constitution when the evidence demonstrated the Articles were not going to work out as a national framework. The result was a stable Republic which has now endured over 200 years. Many bumps along the way, but she has survived. The French Revolution - sought to engage the people first. The system was not to be worked with, only replaced. The revolution was led by people with no real interest in the country at stake, just their own desires. The people were whipped into a mob frenzy at each step of the way. The people exercised no restraint - first, the monarchty was ruthlessly put to death, then the reign of terror began, claiming also the original revolters, then each group of revolutionaries as they sought to assume leadership of the process. Only a vague idea of Liberty was held up as ideal - but it was ultimately liberty from all forms of authority (monarchal, Biblical, then revolutionary) that prevailed as the goal. The outworking of the French revolution was a lack of stable, constitutional foundation to build a stable government upon. A quick succession of minor and weak governments paved the way for Napolean Boneparte to assume power - who quickly returned France BACK to the dictatorial form of government (but without the monarchy) she had revolted from a couple of decades earlier. He quickly eliminated all liberty, and marched France into a self-destructive quest for European dominance. Which scenario does the American people want? True independence, practical stability and practical freedom? Or mob frenzy led by the power-hungry, ultimately resulting in the complete loss of freedom, in the name of liberty? The old saying goes, "Be careful what you ask for..." Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Ted, I can see advantages and disadvantages of the Electoral College, so I cannot speak strongly for either approach. However, I do recall that the presidential hopefuls in the last election bid focused on those states with the greatest electoral votes anyway (remember the 'swing' states?), so we are seeing the same strategies in-place that you'd like to see avoided with the popular vote. There was a time when the people would literally run a corrupt politician out of town on a rail, perhaps after the tarring and feathering. Back then the politicians were truly afraid of the power of the people. That fear no longer exists. We have corrupt judges, we have a corrupt press and corrupt political cronies, all having an agenda certainly motivated by money and power, not love of country. This continuing evolution is fueled by the public school system NOT educating their charges to love and revere this country and what it stands for, nor to love and obey our founding documents, to me not much less inspired than the Bible itself. Why is the public school system dong such a great job? Simply because the parents are not holding the schools to a high standard. It seems that once the kids are out the door each day, the parental concern for them is placed on a back burner... let the teachers raise them for the next 6-8 hours. That's why we let our schools feed them breakfasts and lunches, even in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 This last election WAS a revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 And the polls are reflecting another one starting very early. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Maybe so, carolaa, but that would be of the French sort, wouldn't it? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Yes, the backlash is building. And nary a bit of it is being reported truthfully in the news. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 The election WAS the backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 B pre pared for 'backlash' II (coming soon at an election near you) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Guy Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Reminds a person of the Israelites getting out of Egypt....but since every pot didn't get a chicken in it...well...they decided it's time to go back to slavery.....you know , the good old days!!! Hope we don't have to wonder around till all the complainers......, well, we all know what happened the them! How profound! You reminded me of when the Israelites were brought to the very edge of the promised land, yet didn't have the faith to enter (too many giants in the land!). We've been told that near the end of the 1800's, the second coming was at hand, but Christ didn't come back. So close, yet not there again I pray that history doesn't repeat itself yet a third time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Reminds a person of the Israelites getting out of Egypt....but since every pot didn't get a chicken in it...well...they decided it's time to go back to slavery.....you know , the good old days!!! Hope we don't have to wonder around till all the complainers......, well, we all know what happened the them! It'd be nice to get a chicken in the pot, CoAspen, but even nicer yet if Obama wasn't sticking his fork into my pot and taking all my hard-earned chicken out! Well, the Obama presidency hasn't led us out of the wilderness...and it won't, either...seems like he's taking us round and round and round...hoping we lose our bearings enough we won't know he's led us right to Egypt! By the time he's through with the US, the populace will be in slavery for the next 4 generations because of the debt he has run up... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hey dgrimm60! I don't think it will, either!!! IMHO - the sooner the present world system is swept aside in favor of the Kingdom W/O End, the better. But OH! the troubles that must be borne between here and then... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thats the problem...everyone sees something different in their pot....but it is never enough...or the pot is the wrong size, etc, etc. Well, my pot's pretty small, and not too much chicken fits in there...so there's even less chicken after ol' Obama gets through with my pot. Still waiting for that promised tax cut, and my stimulus payment....somehow, I believe both will never be seen in reality. Actually the real problem is people thinking they're entitled to what the other person has in their pot...and that's what swept Obama to election... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well, it's going to come out of someone's pot, so it might as well be the wealthy people's pot. We already got an income tax cut this year. What else are you waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Obama is already proposing huge cuts in Medicare. He is building his plan on the backs of the old, poor and disabled. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Obama is already proposing huge cuts in Medicare. He is building his plan on the backs of the old, poor and disabled. Redwood, You are not taking into account the huge sense of self satisfaction for sticking it to the wealthy. Doesn't matter if it is wide sweeping and snares the ones they all whine about taking care of. If you wade thru the monster bill Obama is trying to cram down everyone's throat without it being read you find many things he neglects to tell his groupie's. He is lying by ommision when he says you may keep your insurance of choice. If you are not insured by the time the bill is passed,you cannot buy insurance from a private company. Nor can insurance companies sell to you. Nor can you ever change insurance companies. We will have 31 new government agencies to regulate this monstrosity. The medicare payments are to be reduced by 50%. That spells rationing to anyone not fawning after Obama. Don't sweat the small stuff tho,the rich are going to get theirs. Small businesses are the financial backbone of this country and they will be hit right between the eyes. Know of one that says if this is passed the first thing he will do is lay off as many employee's as he can and close up shop from Sept to Jan 1st.It will be cheaper for him to pay into unemployment of a skeleton crew and generate less income. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Small business owners are never the rich that I refer to. It's the greedy Wall Street companies that come to the taxpayers for a bailout and the powerful multinational companies that wreak their havoc around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 They are filthy, obscenely rich, and they have the audacity to come to the working class for a bailout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 They are filthy, obscenely rich, and they have the audacity to come to the working class for a bailout. I don't know if they are filthy or obscene. I don't resent those with more than I have. Nor do I hold them responsible for the ludicrous bailouts. Had it not been in the best interests of the politician you can bet they would not have been successful. Corporate welfare should stop but won't as long as it benefits the prostitutes disguised as politicans What you fail to realize is how hard the small business will be hurt by this. Small business is the absolute financial backbone of this country. Many will be ruined and many will simply scale back. My brother is a small business man. He has made a great deal of money. I nor you have any right to the money he has earned. NONE. You only have a right to what you earn. He is one that will simply close down if this goes thru. With him will go between 35-40 employee's,more with the office workers. To say nothing of how it will hit their suppliers. A number of children that are provided for with the hard work of their parents and my brother and his wife. If he were to maintain his business he would have little choice but to go with a government insurance policy. You can't hurt them without hurting yourself. That doesn't bother some as long as the filthy and obscene get theirs. You and others will get your revenge and I hope it sustains everyone as they began to get theirs. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 What you fail to realize is how hard the small business will be hurt by this. Small business is the absolute financial backbone of this country. Many will be ruined and many will simply scale back. You are wrong, Bonnie. I do not fail to realize that. I totally agree with you on this issue. I think the small business owners need to be left alone. There is a huge difference between small business owners and the powerful multinational conglomerates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well, it's going to come out of someone's pot, so it might as well be the wealthy people's pot. We already got an income tax cut this year. What else are you waiting for? For starts, I didn't get a tax cut this year - just a very significant rise in the check I had to cut to the IRS. For second, I am hardly wealthy. For third, if the wealthy don't want their pot raided, who is anyone else to say it should be taken by force? If you want some pots to raid, try (emphasis TRY) raiding the Kerry's, the Kennedy's, the Gore's, the Shriver's, etc., who are super rich but won't give you anything significant out of their pots? It has to be only from the middle class you get your chicken from...Not them. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Small business owners are never the rich that I refer to. It's the greedy Wall Street companies that come to the taxpayers for a bailout and the powerful multinational companies that wreak their havoc around the world. Yet it is these particular people Obama has targeted. It's the Wall Street types who put Obama in office in the first place. It's the small business people who can file their businesses as individuals through the tax laws passed in the late 1980's that are being targetted. Because the gross incomes on these businesses are far above the normal personal income, they are re-labeled as "the rich" and targeted for "wealth re-distribution" (another name for legalized racketteering, extortion, and theft), even though the adjusted real income for these small business is strictly middle class. It's all in the fine print... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: bonnie What you fail to realize is how hard the small business will be hurt by this. Small business is the absolute financial backbone of this country. Many will be ruined and many will simply scale back. You are wrong, Bonnie. I do not fail to realize that. I totally agree with you on this issue. I think the small business owners need to be left alone. There is a huge difference between small business owners and the powerful multinational conglomerates. But the multinational conglomerates you want to attack are so very out of reach by any government, There is always an offshore site which is very tax-friendly - and most nations aren't above bringing such an international company's business to their shores - leaving the US the pitiful crumbs and a ultra-high corporate tax rate that makes certain no multinational conglomerate will have its profits taxed by the US. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Class envy - it's just another one of those distractions to keep one busy while getting people to "justify" breaking God's commandments about coveting and stealing in the name of "social justice"... There are a lot of things not fair in this world, but breaking God's Law in the name of "fairness" just does not cut it on the Christ's righteousness point. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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